1871 Shallow N Counterfeit Indian cent

EagleEye

This is a Shallow N counterfeit which would fool just about anyone! The obverse shows light die cracks around the tops of most of the letters. The reverse shows a radial die crack from the rim at 1:30 to the top of the E in ONE. There is a mark on the neck that may be a defect from the original coin and may be a diagnostic for this counterfeit.

The 1871 Shallow N is very scarce, so this could be a coin that sets you back. Here's a real one:

guitarwes

Very informative. Wouldda fooled me, but I don't do too many of the IHC varirites.

A Very nice one you got there......both of 'em, esp. the REAL one!

MikeInFL

Very interesting. How can/did you tell it was a counterfeit? Any idea how it was made?

DMWJR

So the coin itself is a counterfeit, correct? Any thoughts on how it was made?


Your not saying someone took a real 1871 cent and tried to make the "N" shallow, are you?

EagleEye

No, It looks like the classic "Bay area" fakes. Made with transfer dies from a real coin. They may have used a 1865 cent for the reverse. I would like to know if anyone has seen a similar one with that mark on the neck.

Mike, for one thing I list all the dies known for the Shallow N and this is not one of them. Also it has that look. Anyone who has seen enough bay area counterfeits know that look. You can't always be totally sure - to confirm this from 99.999% sure to 100% I need another one to show up so I can compare repeating defects.

EagleEye

Also the reverse may show up on other dates, so that die break at 1:30 is important.

Link to the listing

adamlaneus

Is it just the photograph, or is there very little luster on that counterfeit?

EagleEye

Is it just the photograph, or is there very little luster on that counterfeit?

Most all counterfeits are retoned because when they are first made they look unreal - bright and new. There is no luster, but it does look cleaned and retoned. Reason enough not to buy it in the first place.

MikeInFL

Thank you for the answer/clarification, Rick.

MikeInFL

p.s. the date looks much farther to the left on the fake one -- look at the location of the first 1 versus the lower left of the bust.

Lakesammman

Looks like that 1876 shallow N I bought on ebay a while back and showed Rick - no one could tell me why it was counterfeit - it just "didn't look right".

Thanks for sharing it.

EagleEye

Maybe there should be an S Mint Mark on it - For Sacramento!

ricko

Interesting information... Let us know if a second one turns up.... Cheers, RickO

relicsncoins

I wonder if the metallic composition of the planchet that was used is consistent with an authentic piece?

fc

i guess the only way i would have ever known this was a fake
would be due to the mark on the neck being seen over the years
on multiple coins.

the die breaks would have told me nothing as i would expect those
to be seen on multiple coins..

interesting post.

how was the fake even discovered in the first place? the mark on the
neck i would assume.

--------

next question, on the real coin, what does the 1 in denticles mean?
i do not see it.

adamlaneus

Here's two other 1871 cents. I do not believe the position of the date comes in any one location. Although the 'shallow N' may come in one and only one position.





The only thing I see in the counterfeit is a 'wierd surface'. And I suspect that a good doctor of copper could make it look more real looking than this.

*shudder*

PrivateCoinCollector

Fat letters are a tell-tale sign. Always! Stare at the two pictures long enough and you will see what I am talking about.