Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

What is the term for a rarer coin-- Exceedingly Rare, or Excessively Rare?

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I am writing from the mystical Orient, where I just returned to my hotel after enjoying a fine meal at the world famous M on the Bund Restaurant in Shanghai. I am a little short on coin material at the moment, although on my flights within China, I have been enjoying reading Len Augsburger's Treasure in the Cellar. It's a great book, and I am up to page 93 or so. I will write a review once I finish (although I cannot help but notice, that on one of the pages, when describing a person's library, Len uses the term "overstuffed chair", which is something that my beloved QDB always refers to).

Sticking with the QDB theme, before I left, I took a look at the most recent Stack's catalogs. I noticed that for the Mercury dime pattern coins and that special $20 Liberty coin, the cataloger used the term "Exceedingly Rare". Quite frankly, I was disappointed. All this time, I assumed that the uber term for rarity was Longacre's favorite-- "Excessively Rare". Although I believe the cataloger made a mistake by using the Exceedingly Rare term, I wanted to pose the question to the boards for the final determination--

Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

Comments

  • Expensively prohibitive. TM Respectfully, John Curlis
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, less then 3 would be Unique.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • rgCoinGuyrgCoinGuy Posts: 7,478
    I am just curious how you say it in Chinese. image
    imageQuid pro quo. Yes or no?
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,723 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, less then 3 would be Unique. >>

    really?image, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hypingly rare.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,723 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am just curious how you say it in Chinese. image >>

    chinese usually don't use pronouns
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, <STRONG>less then 3 would be Unique</STRONG>. >>

    really?image, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0 >>



    There's a full R Value chart which runs through all the Rarity Values from Unique - Rare, I for the life of me can not find it on the web image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭


    << <i>I am just curious how you say it in Chinese. image >>




    Fresh off the press
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare? >>



    Exceedingly rare = R-7: 4 - 12 known.

    Excessively rare = R-8: 2 or 3 known.
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    ry to ass chinee official where keep all trade dolla we send over - terl rem wre know you have rem and have ray make you talk. image

    i don't think rare really needs a qualifier. rare is rare, no need for drama. image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The proper term is widget-NOTimage
    theknowitalltroll;
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare?

    Just say,"damn hard to find" and you'd be killing two birds with one stone.

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    I would think that exceedingly or extremely rare is correct.

    How can anthing rare be described as excessive - sounds oximoronic.

    Main Entry: ex·ces·sive
    Pronunciation: ik-ˈse-siv
    Function: adjective
    Date: 14th century
    : exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal
    — ex·ces·sive·ly adverb
    — ex·ces·sive·ness noun
    synonyms excessive, immoderate, inordinate, extravagant, exorbitant, extreme mean going beyond a normal limit. excessive implies an amount or degree too great to be reasonable or acceptable <excessive punishment>. immoderate implies lack of desirable or necessary restraint <immoderate spending>. inordinate implies an exceeding of the limits dictated by reason or good judgment <inordinate pride>. extravagant implies an indifference to restraints imposed by truth, prudence, or good taste <extravagant claims for the product>. exorbitant implies a departure from accepted standards regarding amount or degree <exorbitant prices>. extreme may imply an approach to the farthest limit possible or conceivable but commonly means only to a notably high degree <extreme shyness>.
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe the two terms are nearly equivalent in usage. The latter has a connotation that collectors are actively seeking it.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unique means unique. Unique means 1.
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Unique means unique. Unique means 1. >>



    As Taggert said in Blazing Saddles, "If that ain't an ee-nook idea!"

    They should say "uber-rare". Throwing in European words is uber-chic.
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What is the term for a rarer coin-- Exceedingly Rare, or Excessively Rare? >>

    very rare = r6, extremely rare = r7, unique or nearly so = r8

    r9 = not known to exist

    K S
  • edix2001edix2001 Posts: 3,388
    Exceedingly rare
    Excessively scratched
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am a little short on coin material at the moment, although on my flights within China, I have been enjoying reading Len Augsburger's Treasure in the Cellar. It's a great book, and I am up to page 93 or so. I will write a review once I finish (although I cannot help but notice, that on one of the pages, when describing a person's library, Len uses the term "overstuffed chair", which is something that my beloved QDB always refers to).
    >>



    Guilty as charged image

    There is at least one other QDBism in there but you haven't gotten to it yet. A challenge for the reader image
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    1 extant

  • I'd call it ( out of my league) rare
    In the time of Chimpanzee's
    I was a Monkey
  • Rare- I can't afford it
    Exceedingly Rare- Longacre can't afford it
    Exessively Rare- TradeDollarNut can afford it but wouldn't dare overpay that much
    OLDER IS BETTER
  • JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    Anything that gets the message across. Either one of these terms, I would take to mean 4-6 known examples.
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the term which used to be applied to large cents of this ilk - N.C. : Non-Collectible. Presuming an accepted survival of 1 or 2 examples, so very few collectors can ever own them in any generation that they are virtually non-collectible. Such an example for me would be the 1866 No Motto Proof Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar or the 1873-CC No Arrows at Date Mint State Seated Liberty Dime.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com


  • Besides the fact the phrase "Exessively rare" is oxymoronic (definition), I do not see it used on any of the 3 or 4 scales returned when I googled "Coin rarity scale"

    This seems to be the most common scale I came up with.

    R-1 Common
    R-2 Not So Common
    R-3 Scarce
    R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
    R-5 Rare (31-75)
    R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
    R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
    R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)

    So I must say, the answer to your question, is quite up to you image
  • Would it not assist to review the definition of the word rare? Respectfully, John Curlis
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most Rare.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Hmm.....Ûber rare sounds international. Ultra rare might work, or outstandingly rare, or superbly rare, or maybe mega rare ??? Can’t use FDC – sounds like a gov't agency. How about “So rare I can’t tell you the cost” or “exceedinglyultramegafarout reallyreallyreally rare”or my personal favorite “Unique, only a handful known.”
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hmm.....Ûber rare sounds international. Ultra rare might work, or outstandingly rare, or superbly rare, or maybe mega rare ??? Can’t use FDC – sounds like a gov't agency. How about “So rare I can’t tell you the cost” or “exceedinglyultramegafarout reallyreallyreally rare”or my personal favorite “Unique, only a handful known.” >>



    I guess if the coin is enormous, one could make a handful.

    How about "raralicious"?
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    Here's an interesting look at past cataloger's use of these terms.

    In Stack's Roper Collection sale (December 1983) seen here:
    image

    They give a little blurb in the forward about use of the terms Very Rare and Extremely Rare:
    image

    And then, just 2 pages later, they hit us with this:
    image

    My conclusion: Clearly 'Excessively Rare' connotes greater rarity than 'Extremely Rare', but even the catalogers using these terms did not bother to take the time to define all of them.

    The End.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,279 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CCU's 1983 citation, while scholarly, is outdated. I believe "RARE L@@K" is the appropriate term today.
  • JohnMabenJohnMaben Posts: 957 ✭✭✭
    I think "rare" is way over used and mis-used in numismatics.

    Most "rare" coins aren't rare at all if ask me.

    I much prefer the word "scarce" to describe most "rare" coins.

    To me, rare would be say less than 1000 known, and I don't mean graded, I mean known to exist period in any grade.

    Ultra rare or exceedingly rare might be less than 100.

    John

    John Maben
    Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
    ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
    800-381-2646

  • jfoot13jfoot13 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭
    hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins
    If you can't swim you better stay in the boat.......
  • rgCoinGuyrgCoinGuy Posts: 7,478


    << <i>hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins >>



    image

    I like this idea!
    imageQuid pro quo. Yes or no?
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think "rare" is way over used and mis-used in numismatics.

    Most "rare" coins aren't rare at all if ask me.

    I much prefer the word "scarce" to describe most "rare" coins.

    To me, rare would be say less than 1000 known, and I don't mean graded, I mean known to exist period in any grade.

    Ultra rare or exceedingly rare might be less than 100.

    John >>



    Don't serious numismatists generally use the word Rare to mean R-5 or higher, i.e. less than 75 known (that's known, not slabbed, or existing in a particular grade or TPG holder, but rather 'known' period)?
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mary Poppins nailed it: supercalifragilistic-expialidocious.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins >>



    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Wow. Some spirited debate!

    And to Coinosaurus-- I finished the book on my flight from Shanghai to Beijing, on which was served dried squid for breakfast. That's the last time I fly coach to save a buck or two. image

    PS. I think I recall another QDB-ism in the book. Now I need to go back and review it. Was it the commentary about all coins of value being entombed in plastic nowadays?
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

    All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

    IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



    R-1 Common
    R-2 Not So Common
    R-3 Scarce
    R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
    R-5 Rare (31-75)
    R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
    R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
    R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted >>



    1. It's a rarity scale, not a grading scale.

    2. It refers to survival rates, not mintage rates.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

    All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

    IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



    R-1 Common
    R-2 Not So Common
    R-3 Scarce
    R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
    R-5 Rare (31-75)
    R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
    R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
    R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3) >>



    That's what I was looking for... all 4 examples above are just R-1 to R-2 Key Dates not Rare at all.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • RunnersDadRunnersDad Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

    All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

    IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



    R-1 Common
    R-2 Not So Common
    R-3 Scarce
    R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
    R-5 Rare (31-75)
    R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
    R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
    R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3) >>



    That's what I was looking for... all 4 examples above are just R-1 to R-2 Key Dates not Rare at all. >>



    Given that the aforementioned coins are somewhat common, would you then associate this scale with those coins when graded? Given that the higher grade pop's of some of these coins definitely fall into the Scarce to Unique categories on the above chart.
    Mike

    Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page

    "To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage? >>



    Pointing out again that the Rarity scale refers to survival rates and not mintage figures, I would say that anyone who collects Capped Bust Halves by Overton number, or Large Cents by Sheldon number, or Connecticut Coppers by Miller number may very well have a coin which is R-5 or higher, which therefore has an extent population of 75 pieces or less, and which may well have cost them $500 or less.
  • PreussenPreussen Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, <STRONG>less then 3 would be Unique</STRONG>. >>

    really?image, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0 >>

    image -Preussen
    "Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
  • Actually - that scale must have been updated to make more sense -

    I have:

    R-8 2 to 3 known to exist
    Unique 1
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file