What is the term for a rarer coin-- Exceedingly Rare, or Excessively Rare?

Longacre

I am writing from the mystical Orient, where I just returned to my hotel after enjoying a fine meal at the world famous M on the Bund Restaurant in Shanghai. I am a little short on coin material at the moment, although on my flights within China, I have been enjoying reading Len Augsburger's Treasure in the Cellar. It's a great book, and I am up to page 93 or so. I will write a review once I finish (although I cannot help but notice, that on one of the pages, when describing a person's library, Len uses the term "overstuffed chair", which is something that my beloved QDB always refers to).

Sticking with the QDB theme, before I left, I took a look at the most recent Stack's catalogs. I noticed that for the Mercury dime pattern coins and that special $20 Liberty coin, the cataloger used the term "Exceedingly Rare". Quite frankly, I was disappointed. All this time, I assumed that the uber term for rarity was Longacre's favorite-- "Excessively Rare". Although I believe the cataloger made a mistake by using the Exceedingly Rare term, I wanted to pose the question to the boards for the final determination--

Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare?

charley

Expensively prohibitive. TM Respectfully, John Curlis

Broadstruck

Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, less then 3 would be Unique.

rgCoinGuy

I am just curious how you say it in Chinese.

LanLord

<< <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, less then 3 would be Unique. >>

really?, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0

291fifth

Hypingly rare.

LanLord

<< <i>I am just curious how you say it in Chinese. >>

chinese usually don't use pronouns

Broadstruck

<< <i>

<< <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, <STRONG>less then 3 would be Unique</STRONG>. >>

really?, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0 >>



There's a full R Value chart which runs through all the Rarity Values from Unique - Rare, I for the life of me can not find it on the web

garsmith

<< <i>I am just curious how you say it in Chinese. >>




Fresh off the press

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare? >>



Exceedingly rare = R-7: 4 - 12 known.

Excessively rare = R-8: 2 or 3 known.

COALPORTER

ry to ass chinee official where keep all trade dolla we send over - terl rem wre know you have rem and have ray make you talk.

i don't think rare really needs a qualifier. rare is rare, no need for drama.

BAJJERFAN

The proper term is widget-NOT

mr1931S

Which term denotes a rarer coin: exceedingly rare, or excessively rare?

Just say,"damn hard to find" and you'd be killing two birds with one stone.

Mesquite

I would think that exceedingly or extremely rare is correct.

How can anthing rare be described as excessive - sounds oximoronic.

Main Entry: ex·ces·sive
Pronunciation: ik-ˈse-siv
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal
— ex·ces·sive·ly adverb
— ex·ces·sive·ness noun
synonyms excessive, immoderate, inordinate, extravagant, exorbitant, extreme mean going beyond a normal limit. excessive implies an amount or degree too great to be reasonable or acceptable <excessive punishment>. immoderate implies lack of desirable or necessary restraint <immoderate spending>. inordinate implies an exceeding of the limits dictated by reason or good judgment <inordinate pride>. extravagant implies an indifference to restraints imposed by truth, prudence, or good taste <extravagant claims for the product>. exorbitant implies a departure from accepted standards regarding amount or degree <exorbitant prices>. extreme may imply an approach to the farthest limit possible or conceivable but commonly means only to a notably high degree <extreme shyness>.

cladking

I believe the two terms are nearly equivalent in usage. The latter has a connotation that collectors are actively seeking it.

Cladiator

Unique means unique. Unique means 1.

shirohniichan

<< <i>Unique means unique. Unique means 1. >>



As Taggert said in Blazing Saddles, "If that ain't an ee-nook idea!"

They should say "uber-rare". Throwing in European words is uber-chic.

dorkkarl

<< <i>What is the term for a rarer coin-- Exceedingly Rare, or Excessively Rare? >>

very rare = r6, extremely rare = r7, unique or nearly so = r8

r9 = not known to exist

K S

edix2001

Exceedingly rare
Excessively scratched

Coinosaurus

<< <i>I am a little short on coin material at the moment, although on my flights within China, I have been enjoying reading Len Augsburger's Treasure in the Cellar. It's a great book, and I am up to page 93 or so. I will write a review once I finish (although I cannot help but notice, that on one of the pages, when describing a person's library, Len uses the term "overstuffed chair", which is something that my beloved QDB always refers to).
>>



Guilty as charged

There is at least one other QDBism in there but you haven't gotten to it yet. A challenge for the reader

BECOKA

1 extant

sanitarium1inmate

I'd call it ( out of my league) rare

quickwing

Rare- I can't afford it
Exceedingly Rare- Longacre can't afford it
Exessively Rare- TradeDollarNut can afford it but wouldn't dare overpay that much

Julian

Anything that gets the message across. Either one of these terms, I would take to mean 4-6 known examples.

coindeuce

I like the term which used to be applied to large cents of this ilk - N.C. : Non-Collectible. Presuming an accepted survival of 1 or 2 examples, so very few collectors can ever own them in any generation that they are virtually non-collectible. Such an example for me would be the 1866 No Motto Proof Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar or the 1873-CC No Arrows at Date Mint State Seated Liberty Dime.

PrivateCoinCollector

Besides the fact the phrase "Exessively rare" is oxymoronic (definition), I do not see it used on any of the 3 or 4 scales returned when I googled "Coin rarity scale"

This seems to be the most common scale I came up with.

R-1 Common
R-2 Not So Common
R-3 Scarce
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)

So I must say, the answer to your question, is quite up to you

charley

Would it not assist to review the definition of the word rare? Respectfully, John Curlis

derryb

Most Rare.

RWB

Hmm.....Ûber rare sounds international. Ultra rare might work, or outstandingly rare, or superbly rare, or maybe mega rare ??? Can’t use FDC – sounds like a gov't agency. How about “So rare I can’t tell you the cost” or “exceedinglyultramegafarout reallyreallyreally rare”or my personal favorite “Unique, only a handful known.”

shirohniichan

<< <i>Hmm.....Ûber rare sounds international. Ultra rare might work, or outstandingly rare, or superbly rare, or maybe mega rare ??? Can’t use FDC – sounds like a gov't agency. How about “So rare I can’t tell you the cost” or “exceedinglyultramegafarout reallyreallyreally rare”or my personal favorite “Unique, only a handful known.” >>



I guess if the coin is enormous, one could make a handful.

How about "raralicious"?

ColonialCoinUnion

Here's an interesting look at past cataloger's use of these terms.

In Stack's Roper Collection sale (December 1983) seen here:


They give a little blurb in the forward about use of the terms Very Rare and Extremely Rare:


And then, just 2 pages later, they hit us with this:


My conclusion: Clearly 'Excessively Rare' connotes greater rarity than 'Extremely Rare', but even the catalogers using these terms did not bother to take the time to define all of them.

The End.

messydesk

CCU's 1983 citation, while scholarly, is outdated. I believe "RARE L@@K" is the appropriate term today.

JohnMaben

I think "rare" is way over used and mis-used in numismatics.

Most "rare" coins aren't rare at all if ask me.

I much prefer the word "scarce" to describe most "rare" coins.

To me, rare would be say less than 1000 known, and I don't mean graded, I mean known to exist period in any grade.

Ultra rare or exceedingly rare might be less than 100.

John

jfoot13

hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins

rgCoinGuy

<< <i>hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins >>





I like this idea!

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I think "rare" is way over used and mis-used in numismatics.

Most "rare" coins aren't rare at all if ask me.

I much prefer the word "scarce" to describe most "rare" coins.

To me, rare would be say less than 1000 known, and I don't mean graded, I mean known to exist period in any grade.

Ultra rare or exceedingly rare might be less than 100.

John >>



Don't serious numismatists generally use the word Rare to mean R-5 or higher, i.e. less than 75 known (that's known, not slabbed, or existing in a particular grade or TPG holder, but rather 'known' period)?

coindeuce

Mary Poppins nailed it: supercalifragilistic-expialidocious.

Broadstruck

<< <i>hmmm go order 2 steaks one exceedingly rare and one excessively rare and the one that's closest to raw wins >>

Longacre

Wow. Some spirited debate!

And to Coinosaurus-- I finished the book on my flight from Shanghai to Beijing, on which was served dried squid for breakfast. That's the last time I fly coach to save a buck or two.

PS. I think I recall another QDB-ism in the book. Now I need to go back and review it. Was it the commentary about all coins of value being entombed in plastic nowadays?

SirAnthonyAC

The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



R-1 Common
R-2 Not So Common
R-3 Scarce
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted >>



1. It's a rarity scale, not a grading scale.

2. It refers to survival rates, not mintage rates.

Broadstruck

<< <i>The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



R-1 Common
R-2 Not So Common
R-3 Scarce
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3) >>



That's what I was looking for... all 4 examples above are just R-1 to R-2 Key Dates not Rare at all.

RunnersDad

<< <i>

<< <i>The only issue I see with the scale below is... it means an 1893-S Morgan is not a Rare coin, neither is a 1909-S VDB Cent, a 1921-D Walking Liberty, a 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, etc.. what do you think your response be if you were selling one of those coins and EBay pulled your auction because you called it a "rare" coin!

All those coins, along with other "keys to the series" are not even very scarce!

IMHO it's a little silly to have more than half the grading scale below devoted to designating coins with less than 200 ever minted... I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage?



R-1 Common
R-2 Not So Common
R-3 Scarce
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3) >>



That's what I was looking for... all 4 examples above are just R-1 to R-2 Key Dates not Rare at all. >>



Given that the aforementioned coins are somewhat common, would you then associate this scale with those coins when graded? Given that the higher grade pop's of some of these coins definitely fall into the Scarce to Unique categories on the above chart.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I mean honestly, how many of us have coins in our collections with less than 200 mintage? >>



Pointing out again that the Rarity scale refers to survival rates and not mintage figures, I would say that anyone who collects Capped Bust Halves by Overton number, or Large Cents by Sheldon number, or Connecticut Coppers by Miller number may very well have a coin which is R-5 or higher, which therefore has an extent population of 75 pieces or less, and which may well have cost them $500 or less.

Preussen

<< <i>

<< <i>Rare was used to describe coins which where less then 75 known, <STRONG>less then 3 would be Unique</STRONG>. >>

really?, I would expect unique to be fewer than 2 but more than 0 >>

-Preussen

lloydmincy

Actually - that scale must have been updated to make more sense -

I have:

R-8 2 to 3 known to exist
Unique 1