Vintage PSA 9's available for 80% of SMR....
11235813
Posts: 610
Got a bunch of vintage PSA 9's I'm looking to sell to raise cash for the 1955 Bowman and 1956 Topps FB sets I've started on....
1952 Bowman #217 Casey Stengel PSA 9 - $1600 (SMR is $2000)
1956 Topps FB #11 George Blanda PSA 9 - $300 (SMR is $375)
1956 Topps FB #22 Chicago Cardinals Team (SP) PSA 9 - $400 (SMR is $475)
1958 Topps #488 Hank Aaron GAI 9 - $2100 or best offer (SMR is $2800)
1964 Topps Giants #49 Hank Aaron PSA 9 - $350 (SMR is $450)
The two 1956 Topps FB are being sold because I've found nice PSA 8's for my set and am downgrading.
PM me for scans....
Matt
1952 Bowman #217 Casey Stengel PSA 9 - $1600 (SMR is $2000)
1956 Topps FB #11 George Blanda PSA 9 - $300 (SMR is $375)
1956 Topps FB #22 Chicago Cardinals Team (SP) PSA 9 - $400 (SMR is $475)
1958 Topps #488 Hank Aaron GAI 9 - $2100 or best offer (SMR is $2800)
1964 Topps Giants #49 Hank Aaron PSA 9 - $350 (SMR is $450)
The two 1956 Topps FB are being sold because I've found nice PSA 8's for my set and am downgrading.
PM me for scans....
Matt
0
Comments
Not calling you out, just wanted to mention it.
I know SMR isn't known for it's accuracy, but they're not going have a card listed for twice what it's going for.....
Matt
There are only two legitimate ways to calculate the current "value" or "worth" of a card you are either selling or buying.
1) E-bay current/completed auctions. There is only one previous sale for the Aaron in a 9. $189.99.
2) Vintagecardprices (VCP) .com I'm not a member, but they maintain records on past sales from E-bay and major auctions.
<< <i>I know SMR isn't known for it's accuracy, but they're not going have a card listed for twice what it's going for..... >>
Here's VCP's listing of the last few years worth of Ebay sales on the 64 Topps Giants Aaron PSA 9...
Date Price
6/28/08 $249.99
6/24/08 $189.99
6/17/08 $143.61
6/10/08 $124.28
4/27/08 $200.00
4/27/08 $177.61
4/16/08 $148.09
4/6/08 $200.00
3/13/08 $188.83
3/5/08 $126.28
1/30/08 $154.05
1/27/08 $191.50
1/15/08 $175.00
1/13/08 $160.00
1/10/08 $217.62
12/30/07 $175.50
10/24/07 $193.33
10/9/07 $192.00
8/15/07 $203.90
8/8/07 $230.27
7/20/07 $240.27
6/28/07 $172.75
5/8/07 $247.50
5/1/07 $203.59
3/6/07 $202.50
12/11/06 $461.99
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>I know SMR isn't known for it's accuracy, but they're not going have a card listed for twice what it's going for..... >>
Hah-hoh! They would and do. Often.
SMR="Guide".
<< <i>That person that paid $461.99 must feel like a fool when they see the same card sell for $124.00. >>
Check out this buyer/bidder relationship chart (from VCP)...
All for a PSA 10 1986 Topps Tiffany Barry Bonds.
The Way of Pain. Ouch.
Date - Seller - Buyer - Price
8/21/07- romanhill - mikemr1974 - $1,098.99
10/13/07 - mikemr1974 - dfitzg1972 - $711.00 ($387.99 loss)
12/24/07 - dfitzg1972 - konfucious77 - $599.00 ($112 loss)
2/12/08 - konfucious77 - trapomps - $456.00 ($143 loss)
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
The problem with online services like VCP is that:
a) they only collect data from online transactions
b) they become self-reinforcing
Seems like this might be a card which would sell for a lot more offline, where people are more likely to use SMR/Beckett as their guide rather than VCP (which most collectors have probably never heard of).
<< <i>Looks like I'm probably going to be better off selling the 64 Topps Giant Aaron offline to someone who doesn't have access to VCP!
The problem with online services like VCP is that:
a) they only collect data from online transactions
b) they become self-reinforcing
Seems like this might be a card which would sell for a lot more offline, where people are more likely to use SMR/Beckett as their guide rather than VCP (which most collectors have probably never heard of). >>
the only problem with VCP in your case is that it reflects an actual realistic pricing trend for cards. To try and sell it for double the going rate to anyone, informed or not, is just plain wrong.
Also, SMR pricing is not for GAI cards.
<< <i>Seems like this might be a card which would sell for a lot more offline, where people are more likely to use SMR/Beckett as their guide rather than VCP (which most collectors have probably never heard of). >>
So in other words, prey on the unknowledgable and unsuspecting? Sounds like a good plan.
Good luck.
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
<< <i>So in other words, prey on the unknowledgable and unsuspecting? >>
Like when he sold his 1960 and 1961 "Christmas" rack packs.
<< <i>the only problem with VCP in your case is that it reflects an actual realistic pricing trend for cards. >>
Not true. VCP represents pricing trends for a very small subsection of cards, i.e. those sold online or through auction houses for which prices are trackable/reportable.
Just as many, if not more, cards are sold offline, at shows, in card stores, via dealer websites, and through the type of person-to-person transactions which often take place on the CU boards. NONE of these transactions get reported to VCP.
So to say that VCP prices are more accurate than prices reported in other price guides is patently untrue. They may do a good job tracking prices of auction-style transactions, but until VCP starts publishing a price guide to compete with Beckett & SMR that can be carried around, their data will have minimal relevance to offline transactions.
And Goose3 & Cwazzy, questioning my integrity because I choose to use one set of price guides over another when pricing my cards is a little out of bounds. I'm sure that there are plenty of examples of the cards I am offering that have sold for at or above my asking prices offline. Are all those sellers being unethical too? Don't forget that buyers have access to the exact same information as sellers do. If a buyer does not do their due diligence and overpays for an item is that the sellers fault? If a buyer does not think my prices are fair value, all they have to do is walk away. It's not like I'm forcing them to buy from me!
<< <i>
<< <i>the only problem with VCP in your case is that it reflects an actual realistic pricing trend for cards. >>
Not true. VCP represents pricing trends for a very small subsection of cards, i.e. those sold online or through auction houses for which prices are trackable/reportable.
Just as many, if not more, cards are sold offline, at shows, in card stores, via dealer websites, and through the type of person-to-person transactions which often take place on the CU boards. NONE of these transactions get reported to VCP.
So to say that VCP prices are more accurate than prices reported in other price guides is patently untrue. They may do a good job tracking prices of auction-style transactions, but until VCP starts publishing a price guide to compete with Beckett & SMR that can be carried around, their data will have minimal relevance to offline transactions.
And Goose3 & Cwazzy, questioning my integrity because I choose to use one set of price guides over another when pricing my cards is a little out of bounds. I'm sure that there are plenty of examples of the cards I am offering that have sold for at or above my asking prices offline. Are all those sellers being unethical too? Don't forget that buyers have access to the exact same information as sellers do. If a buyer does not do their due diligence and overpays for an item is that the sellers fault? If a buyer does not think my prices are fair value, all they have to do is walk away. It's not like I'm forcing them to buy from me! >>
Excellent Points!!!
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>Like when he sold his 1960 and 1961 "Christmas" rack packs. >>
Nick,
Do you have a problem with the way I sold those racks? In case you didn't bother to read my listings carefully, I clearly disclosed the fact that these racks were not manufactured by Topps in order to make sure that all potential buyers were fully aware of the fact that they were not "authentic" Topps rack packs.
So to accuse me of "preying on unsuspecting buyers" is way out of bounds.
Keep in mind that just because they were not manufactured by Topps does not mean that they do not have collectible value. Many people (myself included) enjoy buying them for the same reason that people enjoy buying "authentic" racks and cellos. I've got a pretty cool 1961 Xmas rack that I will never sell that has Mays & McCovey on the front...
<< <i>Many people (myself included) enjoy buying them for the same reason that people enjoy buying "authentic" racks and cellos. >>
By this simple statement, you are verifying that the Xmas rack packs are not authentic. So, they are fakes. This plain logic also states that since you sold them, you knowingly sold fake packs. Nothing like integrity. People like you are the mean reason that this wonderful hobby is forever tarnished. On behalf of my children, I thank you.
<< <i>VCP represents pricing trends for a very small subsection of cards, i.e. those sold online or through auction houses... >>
You're joking, right?
<< <i>By this simple statement, you are verifying that the Xmas rack packs are not authentic. So, they are fakes. This plain logic also states that since you sold them, you knowingly sold fake packs. >>
Your "plain" logic is rather screwed up. They are only "fakes" if someone tries to pass them off as "authentic", which I did not. They are simply what they are....rack packs manufactured by a 3rd party, which is exactly how I described them.
As such they will never by as valuable as rack packs actually manufactured by Topps, but that does not mean that they do not have value as collectibles. After all, an "authentic" 1960 rack pack with Koufax & Drysdale on it would sell for several thousand dollars....my Xmas rack netted $308. An "authentic" 1961 rack pack with Clemente showing would go for at least a thousand dollars....my Xmas rack went for $178.
Quite clearly, people are fully aware that these are not "authentic" Topps-manufactured rack packs!
The ethics are related to the disclosure. If I had tried to sell these as authentic Topps rack packs then of course I would be doing something unethical. In fact, I would be guilty of fraud. But that's not what I did! I clearly disclosed that they were manufactured by a 3rd party, not Topps, and buyers bid on them accordingly.
Therefore, my actions are completely ethical.
Just as many, if not more, cards are sold offline, at shows, in card stores, via dealer websites, and through the type of person-to-person transactions which often take place on the CU boards. NONE of these transactions get reported to VCP.
So to say that VCP prices are more accurate than prices reported in other price guides is patently untrue. They may do a good job tracking prices of auction-style transactions, but until VCP starts publishing a price guide to compete with Beckett & SMR that can be carried around, their data will have minimal relevance to offline transactions."
I generally agree with this point. There is one set of pricing standards for online auctions, and another entirely different range of prices for non-auction cards. To say that VCP is the authority and that Beckett has no place in today's world is patently untrue. Each is valid for a separate segment of the market (auction vs. non-auction).
Vintage Baseball Cards 1909 - 1976
http://www.freewebs.com/cassidyssportscards/
Please check out 11235813's thread regarding the 1971 Pele ASA 8 that is for sell for about 4x's the price of the last PSA 8 sold on eBAy.
We only report verifiable sales on our website and that can only be public auctions on the internet so people can actually see what it is that sold to make comparisons. Yes we have been offered tons of prices from dealers that they want us to report but we will not go there any way or how. How can we verify these sales are we suppose to just trust the dealer? To me it opens a can or worms and would put us in a position where people could try to manipulate the values of certain cards. We have values covering almost 2,000 sets and about 100,000 individual cards on the site and growing everyday. If there was a way to add off line values we would but don't see how it could be possible. As far as accessing our information it can all be done now from mobile phones and every carrier will have this in the near future not only iPhone. Or you can use our many print out features to take with you to the shows...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>it is awfully funny with some people on these boards...you cant win...some berate you when you dont list prices ...then when you do list prices look what happens...move on...no thanks >>
Agreed...Hi Mike. Enjoying your summer?
Thanks for chiming in. Just curious, but how many subscribers do you have at this point?
The reason I ask, is that I'm guessing that only a very small percentage of collectors have access to the data you compile.
Also, I'm guessing that you will be the first to acknowledge the limitations of the service you provide. By compiling data that only uses verifiable sales of graded cards, you limit yourself to a very small percentage of all transactions that take place within the hobby, thus minimizing the usefulness of your pricing data.
I don't mean to demean VCP in any way, but I think some posters on these boards forget that a huge percentage of hobby transactions involve non-graded cards and/or take place offline.
Just remember everyone, price guides are GUIDES, no more, no less. We live in a free market economy where anyone can ask whatever price they think they can get for their goods and services.
Would you still sell at 80% of SMR then?
Steve
Can always count on Downtown to provide some poignant wisdom in these threads. You're absolutely correct - it seems to be human nature.
Vintage Baseball Cards 1909 - 1976
http://www.freewebs.com/cassidyssportscards/
Thanks for chiming in. Just curious, but how many subscribers do you have at this point?
The reason I ask, is that I'm guessing that only a very small percentage of collectors have access to the data you compile.
Also, I'm guessing that you will be the first to acknowledge the limitations of the service you provide. By compiling data that only uses verifiable sales of graded cards, you limit yourself to a very small percentage of all transactions that take place within the hobby, thus minimizing the usefulness of your pricing data.
I don't mean to demean VCP in any way, but I think some posters on these boards forget that a huge percentage of hobby transactions involve non-graded cards and/or take place offline.
Just remember everyone, price guides are GUIDES, no more, no less. We live in a free market economy where anyone can ask whatever price they think they can get for their goods and services.
it is like buying a used car and not using kelly blue book, consumer reports, the internet or a library, knowledge is economical power. there are times on a low pop card that i must have that i ignore vcp. otherwise i'll get a good price in my head, put in my snipe, how i win at a lower price and i lose wait for that card to come around again.
i won't use the phrase preying on the uninformed, but i will say you are try to sell your item to an informed crowd with knowledge and that is not going to fly.
To answer some of your questions right now we have about 4500 members on our site...not all of them being paying members to access the price data.
"I'm guessing that you will be the first to acknowledge the limitations of the service you provide. By compiling data that only uses verifiable sales of graded cards, you limit yourself to a very small percentage of all transactions that take place within the hobby, thus minimizing the usefulness of your pricing data."
With this statement you made I could not disagree with more...especially when you are dealing with vintage and high grade material. We are seeing an increase of individual card auctions on eBay and the major auction houses every month. I would consider the online auction services to be the major selling place for all graded material. As time goes by more and more material is getting graded and entering the market place. So it is the raw and lower end material that is deminishing as the market moves forward and more collectors embrace the grading companies and what they do for the hobby. Thus only increasing the usefulness of the service we provide not minimizing it at all. Sure if we where a yearly printed publication that put a book on the shelves I would agree with you. But since we are not and a online price guide that updates with in minutes of auctions end we are a valuable tool for anyone that is buying cards. And if you don't use our services you are only opening yourself up to being taken advantage of whether you realize it or not.
"I think some posters on these boards forget that a huge percentage of hobby transactions involve non-graded cards and/or take place offline."
True statement but from my experience it is this type or material that dealers try to sell people and over grade it saying it is an "8" and in actuality when it gets submitted comes back a "6" or and outside chance at a "7". Getting your cards graded is not a cheap thing to do and if the card is a high value or potential high grade then it is sent in to get graded. You have to take in consideration the economics and get cards graded that will enhance the value. Some cards are better off not getting graded because all it does is point out the flaws and lowers the price.
<< <i>11235813,
To answer some of your questions right now we have about 4500 members on our site...not all of them being paying members to access the price data.
"I'm guessing that you will be the first to acknowledge the limitations of the service you provide. By compiling data that only uses verifiable sales of graded cards, you limit yourself to a very small percentage of all transactions that take place within the hobby, thus minimizing the usefulness of your pricing data."
With this statement you made I could not disagree with more...especially when you are dealing with vintage and high grade material. We are seeing an increase of individual card auctions on eBay and the major auction houses every month. I would consider the online auction services to be the major selling place for all graded material. As time goes by more and more material is getting graded and entering the market place. So it is the raw and lower end material that is deminishing as the market moves forward and more collectors embrace the grading companies and what they do for the hobby. Thus only increasing the usefulness of the service we provide not minimizing it at all. Sure if we where a yearly printed publication that put a book on the shelves I would agree with you. But since we are not and a online price guide that updates with in minutes of auctions end we are a valuable tool for anyone that is buying cards. And if you don't use our services you are only opening yourself up to being taken advantage of whether you realize it or not.
"I think some posters on these boards forget that a huge percentage of hobby transactions involve non-graded cards and/or take place offline."
True statement but from my experience it is this type or material that dealers try to sell people and over grade it saying it is an "8" and in actuality when it gets submitted comes back a "6" or and outside chance at a "7". Getting your cards graded is not a cheap thing to do and if the card is a high value or potential high grade then it is sent in to get graded. You have to take in consideration the economics and get cards graded that will enhance the value. Some cards are better off not getting graded because all it does is point out the flaws and lowers the price. >>
Robert, No one could have said it any better. I agree with you
but does cover the online market place very well. Both are just guides as there are many factors that go into a sale of a card.
You may need $ 50 to fill up your gas tank and be willing to sell
a card that would sell at $ 100 for that $ 50 or it may be a card you just have to have and pay $150 for it. Let the seller ask what he wants for his card you have the option of saying no or making a counter offer
<< <i>Josh would you feel the same if VCP was higher then SMR? >>
<< <i>Would you still sell at 80% of SMR then? >>
A very funny and true statement.
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
Anybody who takes SMR seriously for pricing is an idiot. If you want to use it to hype your cards, then fine. But don't get upset when people call you out on it because we all know SMR has no real hobby relevance when it comes to pricing info on cards.
<< <i>.....we all know SMR has no real hobby relevance when it comes to pricing info on cards. >>
Later this year I'll be coming out with the Nam's Sportscard Priceguide. The NSP will be a fine publication, and if no one minds, each month I am going to put + next to the prices of all the cards that are currently in my collection, this way on the BST forum when I say "this card is only going up in value" I wont be lying.
nsp >vcp (in terms of TRUE nam demand)
j
RIP GURU
<< <i>But don't get upset when people call you out on it >>
Lee,
Why shouldn't I get upset? The prices that a seller asks for their items are their business and nobody else's! If you or anybody else thinks that they are too high, just walk on by and don't buy from them. There's no need to publicly criticize them!
Would you walk into a dealer's store and starting publicly criticizing their prices? OF COURSE NOT!
Would you walk up to a dealer's table at a show and start publicly criticizing their prices? OF COURSE NOT!
In both cases if you thought their prices were too high you would just quietly move on and not buy from them.
So why is it considered to be ok for posters on these boards to publicly criticize someone else's prices?
These boards seem to be filled with busybodies who have nothing better to do than to stick their noses where they don't belong and make condescending and disrespectful comments about other posters. Let's not forget that this whole argument got started because a couple of busybodies decided to look up VCP prices for cards THEY HAD NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN BUYING and publically criticize me for daring to asking more than what VCP said it has been going for in auctions!
So far on this thread, I've been accused of unethical behavior by Cwazzy, Goose3, Nam812, and LSUTigers1973, and you pretty much implied that I was an idiot for even opening my SMR and using it as a price guide.
So pardon me for being a little upset at having my integrity and intelligence impugned by a bunch of nosy busybodies......
Anyway, yes I have voiced my opinion towards a card dealer for vastly inflated prices. The most recent one was a thief, excuse me I mean "dealer", that has a 1985 Topps McGwire for sale raw for $350. When questioned he said the price was that high because the card would grade a PSA 10. Great, now he works for PSA too. These are the kind of bottom feeders that get under my skin. I also sent you a nice polite response in your PM you sent me then you want to come back on here and throw my name in again.
So, once again, you have some very nice cards for sale. Whether the prices are inflated or not is a matter of opinion I guess. Good luck with the sales and have a safe and happy 4th.
After re-reading his statement and further comments, I now realize that he was referring specifically to only the graded-card sales tracked by VCP as opposed the whole of online sales raw and otherwise... which is not quite as outlandish. So, I retract my smart-ass comment.
Still, I think it's a mistake to use SMR as anything other than a very broad and general view of the pricing of cards and in relative comparison from one to another, as many of the prices therein can be spectacularly off-base, both high and low. Obviously, it doesn't hold a candle to VCP in terms of accuracy and timeliness.
<< <i>
Would you walk into a dealer's store and starting publicly criticizing their prices? OF COURSE NOT!
Would you walk up to a dealer's table at a show and start publicly criticizing their prices? OF COURSE NOT! >>
Actually, this happens all the time. Word of mouth is the strongest advertisement whether it be positive or negative.
Cant tell you how many times I have been in a dealers store and someone voice their displeasure about a price or prices. Not saying that it is right but it does happen often.
DUKE SUCKS!!
<< <i>People on this board, like myself, take it personally when someone insults the intelligence of the collective community. When you start quoting SMR prices it's obvious you are hyping up your cards to inflate the value/demand in order to get your price. By now, you realize that most of the people here are somewhat knowledgeable about cards and know SMR is FOS. This isn't Craigslist where you can mindlessly troll for idiots who don't do research on the cards they buy without fear of repercussion from members. >>
I agree with Lee. I also think there is a big difference between prices posted in a shop or at a show and those posted here. This is a community of sports card hobbyists who I like to believe have a vested interest not only in facilitating transactions amongst themselves, but also in helping one another out with respect to their purchases. We talk all of the time about the scam artists on eBay, pointing out fraudulent listings and recommending sellers or buyers to add to blocked lists. I don't see why it would be any different for members to point out when somebody is posting prices for cards that appear inflated in relation to recent sales for which data is available on a reputable site like VCP.
From my personal perspective, the only prices that generally matter to me are those on VCP. The rare exception to this rule is for cards that are extremely difficult to find, for which there is no historical data or not enough data to judge a sale price. Only then would I consider a printed pricing guide, which is going to generally be far further out of date than a real-time pricing site like VCP. I think Bobby has done the community a great service by making his historical data to the public, and I am generally happy to see many dealers who previously operated using deceptive tactics having to lower their prices to compete.
I am not questioning the integrity of anyone on this board. I just think that it is a good thing if users pitch in to help each other find good deals, and raise an eyebrow if they think someone is trying to take advantage.
Also very well put. My only request of you is, could you please correct "LSU" in your tagline? It says "lus". Thank you for your understanding.