Highest graded 1917-S Buffalo up for auction at ANA Baltimore

IGWT

This coin was the subject of much discussion back in March or April, and the ANA show is now right around the corner. Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend to watch this coin cross the block. I have absolutely no interest in the coin beyond the curiousity of how the market will value it. What's your guess on the price realized (hammer plus juice)?

Link to 1917-S

FishyOne

$19K

IGWT

I know it's not as popular as a nice Shield Nickel, but c'mon now . . . Edited to add: Fishyone, I was typing my message while you were posting yours. My comment was directed to the lack of responses, not to your estimate. Although you might be low?

Shamika

$45,000!

Shamika

And for the record, that coin has a freakish strike. Incredible!

Meltdown

Wild (almost) educated guess, $30,000

Manorcourtman

25k in NGC tomb.....45k if it were in PCGS tomb

options26

I'd pay $19k, so we will see.

harvey85422458

That is a very nice Buff and I love the die cracks

cape

I've been told 150k plus

cape

also enough of this ngc tomb crap----- the coin is the coin! FINEST KNOWN !

caitlin

175k and what a strike

TONEDDOLLARS

Nice coin, Great stike for the date. Good luck to how ever owns it.

dorkkarl

maybe more then anything, i like the die cracks!

K S

nicetoning42107

50K

IGWT

I suppose that the answer depends, in large part, on the extent to which this coin surpasses those in the immediate undergrade, 66. I'm not knowledgeable in this series, so I went to the Heritage archives to look at some '17-S 5c. In every case -- whether the coin was graded by NGC or by PCGS -- the current coin looked appreciably better (based on pictures alone) in surface quality, luster, and especially strike. What say those of you who know more about the series and/or have seen the coin in person (or, as coin weenies like to say, in-hand)?

Shamika

<< <i>I suppose that the answer depends, in large part, on the extent to which this coin surpasses those in the immediate undergrade, 66. I'm not knowledgeable in this series, so I went to the Heritage archives to look at some '17-S 5c. In every case -- whether the coin was graded by NGC or by PCGS -- the current coin looked appreciably better (based on pictures alone) in surface quality, luster, and especially strike. What say those of you who know more about the series and/or have seen the coin in person (or, as coin weenies like to say, in-hand)? >>



While I've not handled this coin personally, based on the images it appears to be finer than any 17-S I've ever seen and I've been collecting this series for over 20 years.

gyocomgd

Speaking of the 17-S....what would you grade this piece? Compare the strike with the one up for auction at Heritage; look at the hair knot, the detail on the bison's head and mane...
What I'm saying is, I believe the strike on the Heritage coin is overrated, which is not to say overgraded. Show me an aspect of that coin in which the strike is fuller, or more hammered, than the example above.
The luster is at least as exceptional as the strike on the terrific Heritage buff.

Shamika

<< <i>Speaking of the 17-S....what would you grade this piece? Compare the strike with the one up for auction at Heritage; look at the hair knot, the detail on the bison's head and mane...
>>




Hey Guy, any chance you purchased that from THIS SELLER!!!!

Seriously, your 17-S looks like a 66!

gyocomgd

<< <i>Seriously, your 17-S looks like a 66! >>



Hi Chris! Here's a few more images, and your answer. Just crappy TPG grading in my view, and the reason I cracked it out. I sent it to PCGS, it got the same MS63 grade. It bothered me every time I looked at it, so I sold it.

Shamika

<< <i>

<< <i>Seriously, your 17-S looks like a 66! >>



Hi Chris! Here's a few more images, and your answer. Just crappy TPG grading in my view, and the reason I cracked it out. I sent it to PCGS, it got the same MS63 grade. >>

I don't understand it. I see no problems to justify a market grade.

IGWT

While the glare makes it hard to see the surfaces of Guy's coin, the only explanation -- and I'm groping here based on the photos -- that would justify the 63 is what might be the tint of green (more likely leftover PVC than verdigris) on the reverse.

cape

Guy, your 17s is a nice coin but overall the strike is not full on the lettering on the coin! as a 1/4 owner of the 17s in 67 yours really isn't close.

jdimmick

I clearly am not in the league of Cape, caitlan and shamika on buff's , but I do know how to grade across the spectrum quite well. The 17-s posted is nice but clearly is no comparison , not even remotely close to the MS-67 be auctioned. Look at the surface , the luster , the pop(I am not referring to numberS) and overall asthetic including the strike of the 67 coin. clearly a difference!!

Jim

leothelyon

<< <i>Speaking of the 17-S....what would you grade this piece? Compare the strike with the one up for auction at Heritage; look at the hair knot, the detail on the bison's head and mane...
What I'm saying is, I believe the strike on the Heritage coin is overrated, which is not to say overgraded. Show me an aspect of that coin in which the strike is fuller, or more hammered, than the example above.
The luster is at least as exceptional as the strike on the terrific Heritage buff.
>>



Yeah, I'd take that 63 over the 67 any day of the year, what an incredible strike! I've always wanted to know what the hair-tie and the hair detail above and below looked like. The 67 has a weak strike, it's overgraded by three points. Evident by the die cracks, the working die was towards the end of it's use.
Luster and markfree focal areas aren't the only qualities true collectors look for in a coin. Heck, 1917? The master hubs have only been in use for 5 years which explains the minute details in the 63 coin. Zoom ahead 9 years and try imagining a strike like that on a 1926-S.........try locating another 17-S with an equal stike.


Leo

jdimmick

Yes, I agree the strike is quite nice on the 63 coin, better than average, but this is only one element , no where close to the 67 on surface preservation & quality!!!!!!!!


jim

gyocomgd

<< <i>Guy, your 17s is a nice coin but overall the strike is not full on the lettering on the coin! as a 1/4 owner of the 17s in 67 yours really isn't close. >>



I definitely concede your view on the lettering, Ed. But the hair knot, the hair just above the knot and the detail in the feathers is every bit as good on the 63. Same with the sharpness of the horn and the bison's hair around the horn. I don't even own that 63 any more and am not touting it as the equal of that 67 overall. Moreover, I did NOT say your coin was overgraded. I just feel it is the luster and awesome surfaces that carry your coin to 67 more than the strike.
I wish you the very best on the auction, I really do. I hope it fetches an awesome price...

golfer72

the 63 is a better coin

ad4400

I'm the high bidder!! At $1.

BECOKA

I see some nicks that I think should make this a 66 coin. What are the chances it would cross at PCGS?

cape

Becoa, I can assure you of absolutely no nicks on this coin.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Becoa, I can assure you of absolutely no nicks on this coin. >>



It's a 68!

IGWT

$120K reserve.

pennyannie

Will anyone admit that this coin did not cross at PCGS?

IGWT

slothman2000

I thought it was $120,000 reserve...138,000 with the juice...to start

dorkkarl

that's a ridiculous price. the preservation is xlnt, but that is not by any means the finest strike i've seen on a 17s if the digi-pics are to be believed

K S

pennyannie

This 17 "s" is a really nice coin. I would like to have it for 65 money. I hope the winner has money to burn cause when he goes to resell it in the future he will take a bath.

MikeInFL

"What's your guess on the price realized (hammer plus juice)?"

Does not meet reserve.

copperfan

<<that's a ridiculous price. the preservation is xlnt, but that is not by any means the finest strike i've seen on a 17s if the digi-pics are to be believed>>



Got pictures?

jdimmick

It looks to be an exceptional coin but at 138K I dont see it selling!

Shamika

<< <i>"What's your guess on the price realized (hammer plus juice)?"

Does not meet reserve. >>


DITTO!

Shamika

Anyone know what bidding was up to prior to the reserve being posted? Was it anywhere near 6 figures?

ad4400

The last auction status email I got (7/23 around 8PM) before the reserve posted said $45K before the buyer premium. Looks like someone I know guessed pretty close.

pennyannie

Not worthy of 140K

gyocomgd

The photos of the 1917-S in the Heritage catalogue I got in the mail are much better, and much more flattering, than the image on the Heritage website. The luster on the coin is truly exceptional.
There are some other stupendous buffs up for auction. Lot of fun tracking them...

Shamika

<< <i>Guy, your 17s is a nice coin but overall the strike is not full on the lettering on the coin! as a 1/4 owner of the 17s in 67 yours really isn't close. >>

Ed, may I ask who owns the other 3/4 of the coin?

cape

Chris, I just got access to the computer as I am already at the show and all I will say that there are 3 other equal owners of this coin. I will not disclose their names as their privacy is important to me. I will say that HERITAGE beleives the 120k reserve is warranted ! We'll see what the outcome is in a couple days . The collector at heart in me ----still feels this is the finest 17s buff that I've ever seen.

abitofthisabitofthat

No way. The auctioneer will open the lot. A few crickets will chirp in the silence, and then on to the next lot.

sparky64

Don't know squat about buffs.
Looks like doubling at Liberty on the obv to go along with the die crack.

cape

To all you naysayers , I saw the forums very own MR BIGMOOSE, whom has an incredible eye for coins as he has some of THE FINEST COINS THAT I'VE EVER SEEN. Tom pulled me aside to tell me just HOW INCREDIBLE HE THOUGHT THE 17S WAS FOR QUALITY-STRIKE AND EYE APPEAL.