Best Ace in baseball since 1960

edmundfitzgerald

Catfish ?
Gibson ?
Morris ?
Pedro ?
Koufax ?
Maddux ?
Carlton ?

ymarea

Koufax

ymarea

2nd: Tom Seaver

jad22

Pedro has an era that is almost 2 runs lower than the rest of the league for his career. Koufax was under 1 better than the league average. Pedro dominated in a offensive era.

PROMETHIUS88

Maddux!! He has the numbers to back it up. He has stayed relatively healthy his entire career and can still get hitters out without throwing 95+. Heck, he's lucky to get it past 85 these days. Anyone who can have 350 wins and 3000 k's in this era ... and not accused of using peds, gets my vote! Pedro may have the era, but c'mon, your "ACE" has to be able to go out and pitch every 5 days, not every couple of years. Gibson is my close 2nd!

WinPitcher

For 1 season? or career?


1 season would be Koufax


for career would IMO be Martinez.

Steve

perkdog

Spahn with his 363 wins

Barndog

I wish I got to see Bob Gibson pitch. My father spoke about Gibson's dominance like he was the second coming.

mommam17

Koufax was the best. Marichal was next. Then comes the rest. Gibson, Maddox, Seaver, Pascual, etc.

joestalin

Cole Hamels period.

JS

ymarea

<< <i>Koufax was the best. Marichal was next. Then comes the rest. Gibson, Maddox, Seaver, Pascual, etc. >>



Kudos to you for giving kudos to Marichal. He was truly one of the all-time greats. He goes virtually unnoticed, being overshadowed by the likes of Koufax and Gibson.

It's true that Pedro Martinez was a dominant pitcher, and I'm a big fan of his. But the disparity between his ERA and the league's isn't just because he is a true ace among all these potent hitters. The league ERA is also high because most pitchers today simply STINK. When you watched Pedro at his prime, you saw a guy who knew how to pitch. He could mix his pitches, change speeds, pitch to his spots, and take advantage of hitters' weaknessess. Most pitchers today just seem to throw. They don't know how to finish off batters when they get ahead in the count...not just simply striking them out, but getting batters to swing at their (the pitcher's) pitch; or how to approach hitters with runners on base.

Pedro, as great as he was, looks even better because all those around him are so mediocre. Sure, there were exceptions like Maddux, Clemens, and Randy Johnson. Pedro is among the last of a dying breed: pitchers who know how to pitch. How many #2 starters in today's game would likey even make the starting four on a staff from the '60's or '70's? We will never know, but I suspect that guys like Koufax, Marichal, Seaver, Gibson, Palmer, Hunter, Jenkins, Drysdale, etc., would have today's hitters completely baffled.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>I respect Jack Morris but he has no business being on that list. Nor Catfish. >>



Just a starter list really. Forgot about Seaver. Even though Seavers regular season numbers were better then Hunters,
even though Hunter had 5 straight 20+ win season, Seaver was 3-2 in postseason play with 1 ring. Hunter was 10-2 in
postseason play with 5 rings. Hunter was 5-1 in ALCS and 5-1 in the World Series.

I guess it comes down to whether you think Josh Beckett or Greg Maddux is more of an ace. Maddux has the better regular season numbers, but Beckett is 6-0 with a 1.73 era in the postseason. I guess you need an ace who is very good in the regular season, and
then picks it up in the postseason. Hunter and Beckett are in that class. Seaver and Maddux are not.
Jack Morris was 6-1 in the postseason, going 3-0 in world series games with a 2.96 era. Maddux is 10-11 in postseason.

perkdog

None of you guys think much of Spahn?

TomGshotput

Since 1960 Clemens has done more to help his teams than any other pitcher

stown

<< <i>Since 1960 Clemens has done more to help his teams than any other pitcher >>



Beat me to it.