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A Pleasant Surprise for Yankee Fans: Mussina 9-4, 259 Career Wins, Future HOFer?

SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
in Sports Talk
Everyone including Yankee fans thought that Moose was finished last year. He didn't get 9 wins until September 12th in 2007. Mussina has re-invented himself this year ala Jamie Moyer since he can't throw 90+ miles anymore (well maybe rarely).

Moose has 259 wins now. He has never won 20 or more games, but has won 17 games or more 7 times (19 games twice, 18 games 3 times, and 17 games twice). I say if he sticks around and gets 300 wins he will be a lock for the Hall of Fame. At the rate he is going he may even get his 20 wins this season.

Mike Mussina's Career Stats
image

"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."

Comments

  • Bottom9thBottom9th Posts: 2,695 ✭✭
    I never thought of him as a HOF'er, but he may just have the stats to get in.
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Mussina is really low key and often keeps to himself but is a really bright guy and cerebrally boring during most of his interviews. If anybody can re-invent himself and stick around for another 2 or 3 years it will be him. I think all the steroid crap that went on with Clemens and others will help Mussina's chances because he is squeeky clean as they come and the real deal. His pitching resume speaks for itself.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solid player, but not a HOFer by any stretch.


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  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    <<Solid player, but not a HOFer by any stretch>>

    If he gets to 300 wins he will. There is not a pitcher who has 300 or more wins who is not in the HOF.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Mussina has 2696 Strike Outs also. How many pitchers in MLB history have 300 or more wins and 3000 or more strikeouts?
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    I answered my own question image

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Wins-3000_K's_club
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <Solid player, but not a HOFer by any stretch>>

    There is not a pitcher who has 300 or more wins who is not in the HOF.

    That is true, but he'd have to pitch another 3 seasons to get there, which is unlikely at his age (though certainly not out of the realm of possibility). The 300 is a magic number for the HOF, but at what point are we acknowledging longevity over exclence or dominance. After all, is Don Sutton or Mussina more deserving than Bert Blyleven? The HOF has been watered down enough. Mussina will get some votes, but I just don't perceive his career as HOF caliber.


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  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    <<<Solid player, but not a HOFer by any stretch>>

    This season and 2 more he could do it. Fortunately you don't vote. image 300 wins he is in like Flynn.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • otwcardsotwcards Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭
    First off, will Mussina even pitch next season, let alone two or more? He has stated that he has no interest in hanging around to reach milestones and would prefer to be home with his wife and kids.

    With regard to the HOF, Mussina would be an accumulator just like Don Sutton. And like Sutton, Mussina has no business being considered a HOFer. I'm a Yankees fan and I'm excited to see Mussina pitching well at the moment, but he's been doing it with smoke and mirrors and when his location is off, he gets lit up like a Christmas tree. I cannot fathom him managing to pitch like this and win another 41 games over the next two and a half seasons.
  • TomGshotputTomGshotput Posts: 1,358
    Two months of this season should not make us forget all of last year. Mussina's strikeouts per nine innings have dropped from close to eight, to barely over five. Almost always when a pitcher has them drop by that much they are done. It is highly unlikely he will reach 300 wins. And if he does reach that number while pitching at a mediocre level for the best offense in baseball it absolutely should not change how much he deserves to be in the Hall-of-Fame.

    Maddux, Clemens, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling are all definitely better. Maybe Clemens doesn't make the Hall-of-Fame, but Rivera and perhaps Hoffman will. How many pitchers from one generation can make the Hall-of-Fame?

    In the past 30 years I see two pitchers close to his equal being inducted by the writers, Drysdale and Eckersly (though I would put them both slightly ahead), and one who was easily worse, Hunter. Only one who was superior was left out

    I wouldn't vote for him until Schilling, Smoltz and Blyleven make it, but I wouldn't question anyone who supports him right now
    Tom
  • bman90278bman90278 Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If he gets to 300 wins he will. There is not a pitcher who has 300 or more wins who is not in the HOF. >>

    |

    That is correct, but we will have to see about that guy who won 354 games named William Roger Clemens. Mussina was solid thoughout his career and has not ever been in trouble, so we will have to see where he ends up # wise.
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  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    If he continues to use his newfound approach with success and gets to 300, he'll be a HOF'er without a doubt. And I would like to see that, not only for him but it will open the door for guys like Blyleven, Kaat, and John who deserve some consideration but have not made it but would have had they reached the magic 300 number. Especially Blyleven. If Mussina gets 300 and 3000 K's and makes the Hall having never won 20, how in the world do you keep the great Bert Blyleven out?



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  • bman90278bman90278 Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭


    << <i> how in the world do you keep the great Bert Blyleven out?
    >>



    Hard to say. Maybe the writers feel he had too many losses vs wins, he was 287-250, but look at someone like Nolan Ryan's win loss ratio. Or maybe they looked at all of his years, year by year instead of just looking at his totals. He had lots of mediocre years. Also, he was only a two time all star. He did have just over 3700K's #5 all time, and is 27th on the list of career wins. That should have been worth something. Well it could be just many writers who want to be bigger than the sport and I wish baseball had a better way.

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  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    If I needed a pitcher for a big game that pitcher would be Don Sutton over many guys that some
    here feel are better. Sutton was much better then people give him credit for. He was much more then
    a guy who simply was an accumulator of line stats.


    I'd take him over quite a few guys in the hall in a big game.


    Steve


    As for Mussina he is on the cusp.


    Good for you.
  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭
    First off, let's see how he finishes up this season, his last three starts have been shaky at best. IMO his record this season does not reflect the type of pitcher he is. He's only gotten into the 7th 2x this year. He's 0-2 with an ERA over 9.00 against the Red Sox this year. You have to be unbelievably sharp to max out at 85 mph and still get AL hitters out, and I don't think he can continue doing this.

    As for the HOF, he never won 20 games, and only once did he crack the Top 3 in Cy Young voting - no way he is in, even with ~260-270 career wins.
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    jdip9, it figures you would say that. After all you are a dreaded Sox fan. image As WinPitcher stated Mussina is on the cusp. If he gets 300 wins he will be a shoe in. It would be very sweet if Moose got his first 20 game win season this year to prove the pundits wrong that he was all washed up. What's so special about a 20 win season anyway? I would rather have 7 seasons where I won 17 games or more:

    "He has never won 20 or more games, but has won 17 games or more 7 times (19 games twice, 18 games 3 times, and 17 games twice)"
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    I am convinced more the ever that Mussina will get to the Hall of Fame even if he doesn't get to the 300 win magic number. With 263 career wins he is well on this way to a 20 or more win season. With a 13-6 record and a 3.26 ERA if Moose continues to pitch the way he has, and Cliff Lee takes a breather he could win the Cy Young too.

    Mike Mussina's Lifetime Stats
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • EstilEstil Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭✭
    Don't even TALK about Mr. Mussina and HOF in the same sentence until we get Mr. Blyleven in. Mr. Blyleven is light years ahead in HOF qualifications and he most definetly deserves to go in first before we even think about Mr. Mussina (who I bet is nowhere close to 60 shutouts. image )
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  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    If a player won 19 games for 16 straight seasons, he wouldnt' qualify for the HOF due to no 20 win seasons? Pretty aribtrary stat if you ask me.
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  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭
    My point about 20 wins is that you have to dominant to get to that number. Perhaps these last few years have clouded my memory, but I don't recall Mussina ever being dominant. He's been very good, even great, and for a long stretch he was a Top 10 pitcher, but in no year would he even enter the discussion for the most dominant pitcher in any season.

    I have to admit, though, that I am coming around on Mussina. The more I look at his numbers, the more I think he deserves consideration, certainly not first ballot, but could get in. But, I agree with Estil, once Blyleven is in, then we can start the Mussina discussion. No way should he get in before Blyleven.

    What will be interesting is if both Mussina and Schilling retire after this year and go on the ballot together. I'm curious who would get closer to 75% (I don't think either is a first ballot HOFer).
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