<< <i>I'd also like to add that I find it humorous that you think it's a worthwhile effort to go onto a sportscard collecting message board and warn collectors of the unprofitablility of gambling on unopened packs. Like I said, find one person on this board or anywhere in the collecting community that believes opening wax is profitable. Just one. You might have an easier time going to McDonald's and finding someone who thinks french fries are healthy.
Since it seems obvious that you will jump into every rip thread with the same crap, I'm not going to debate you on it any more because I'd be wasting my time as much as you do. >>
The CU forum has 27101 members. I'm so saddened that I won't be able to chat with you anymore. Now I've only got 27100 members to chat with, oh make that only 27099 including your boy Nam. LOL
Hmmmm, I think I fall somewhere in the middle on this debate. If someone wants to bust old wax, have at it but with regard to packs from, say 1975 and before (and especially pre-70), I don't like to see it because the value of the unopened pack almost always greatly exceeds what winds up inside. I'm not into money losing propositions, so I shy away from it. Plus, busting it destroys a cool piece of Americana.
With mid to late 70's stuff and newer I have less of an issue with it because there's so much of it out there and the prices aren't that bad. Speaking of which, anyone want some unopened boxes of 81 Topps, 81 Donruss, 81 Fleer, 82 Topps, or 83 Topps?
RB
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
On second though, stevek is right. For all of you novice collectors that will be trying to open packs for profit, you probably won't be getting PSA 10-quality cards all throughout the packs. Also, drinking Mr. Clean will probably cause some damage to your internal organs and if you lend a crackhead money he may never pay you back. You've all been warned.
Anybody seeing how much money those "Xmas unopened packs" the ones with Santa Claus on the label, always sell for on ebay, for often 20 - 30 times the price of what they are really worth, should know that discussing the value of unopened packs should still be an interesting topic for many out there. Perhaps not for the knowledgeable collectors, and this forum has a number of those, but again there are many new memebers and new collectors who come here all the time. Sharing our knowledge in my opinion makes the forum enjoyable for all - I have learned much from this forum and I'll continue to share and give back whenever I can.
I think I'm gonna order some vintage wax to open, I haven't been jobbed in a week or so. I know there is a 90% chance I get turds, but the only thing better than gambling and winning is gambling and losing.
I view busting vintage wax just like I do any other form of entertainment whether it be going to a movie, casino, amusement park, etc., and that is I have $X to spend on said entertainment and that at the end of the entertainment I will not have that money any more and I more than likely won't have any thing to show for the money I spent. The key is to not spend more than you can afford to lose, if you can't afford to lose $30 skip the movie.
You mean you don't expect to leave the movie theater with more money than you came in with? You need to let people know about this right away! There might be some novice moviegoers out there who think they can make money by going to the movies.
Actually Lee that's just a little bit of mis-information that I like to throw out in hopes that the novice moviegoers will believe it and leave a little more money on the table for me.
<< <i>SteveK, it actually was a fun rip and aside from normal factory issues (print defects, centering) the cards from 1977-1983 were unbelievably clean with no gum damage or bad corners it was like you just bought them from the store the day topps delivered them. Sure it would have been nice to pull a star rookie that would grade out well and help offset the cost of the packs, but that isn't going to happen every time. Really all you are buying when you buy the vintage wax is a couple hours of entertainment nothing more. >>
Well of course that is understood and I agree with you. But you did make the comment "but it hasn't been real fun" and that's what my comments were based on. And frankly, that sort of comment from others seems to be fairly common these days with the rips in this forum.
Actually it was " Well, it's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun." which is just a little saying I picked up somewhere and I really didn't mean anything at all by it.
<< <i>You mean you don't expect to leave the movie theater with more money than you came in with? You need to let people know about this right away! There might be some novice moviegoers out there who think they can make money by going to the movies. >>
No, according to you and your claim of 6 years of winning money at online poker, all they gotta do is logon to Pokerstars to make money, right Lee? We both know that this is what these comments from you and your boy Nam are all about.
So if you and your boy Nam can't stand the heat of criticism of the sucker's game of online poker, then don't post any more OT gambling threads, but I'm sure you're gonna have more "watch me at Pokerstars" threads and when you do, if I feel like it, I'm gonna come down on it like white on rice.
<< <i>Actually it was " Well, it's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun." which is just a little saying I picked up somewhere and I really didn't mean anything at all by it. >>
Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed the rip - I enjoyed it as well.
<< <i>I think I'm gonna order some vintage wax to open, I haven't been jobbed in a week or so. I know there is a 90% chance I get turds, but the only thing better than gambling and winning is gambling and losing. >>
I've mentioned it at least a few times: I played many hours a week for 3-4 years before I became profitable.
It was not easy or something I did casually. I became a student of the game, I read every book that there was to read, I asked people about the reasoning of why they played a hand a certain way, learned the nuiances of holdem, omaha and stud, played microlimits online, etc.... It was a long road to get where I am but for me it was worth it. Not everybody will have the skills, instincts or sticktoitiveness to pull it off, but it is possible. Any time anybody has ever asked me about doing it professionally, I always tell them that it's not a part-time thing and to be prepared to be a loser for at least 3 years.
It's obviously careless to say that anybody can jump online and win at poker. I've never said that; all I've done was refute your ridiculous theory that a skilled player cannot overcome a $3-$4 rake at higher limits. Just because you were a gambler and couldn't pull it off and believe that because you couldn't do it no one can, doesn't make your stupid theories any more true.
Also, I'd like to say that I have never once encouraged anybody to put money into an online poker account or play live poker. If they do, I'd be happy to give advice, but I will never encourage anybody to gamble. I recently helped set up an intervention for my brother's friend who had a problem, so don't for a second believe that I don't know that gambling can become a problem for some. If you consider my poker contest threads irresponsible, I think you need to lighten up and have a little fun with your life, or at least leave the people that want to have fun alone. Just like in these rip threads. Let us "losers" have our fun if you don't approve of our activities.
<< <i>I cant figure out why you keep mentioning me in sentences with online poker. Are you adding misinformed to unintelligent? >>
You flatter yourself too much - I couldn't care less about you or Lee personally when it comes to online poker...only to the extent that I don't like seeing anybody be a gambling addict. When I speak about online poker, it's in general terms of what a sucker's game that it is, and your idol Lee always seems to resent that.
Maybe I interfere with some people's plans to harvest internet friends, and then they introduce them at the right time to their gambling website affiliate program, where they can grossly profit off of them. This isn't anything new - this has been going on in internet forums for years, especially poker forums...but I think people should be aware of this scam, just like ebay scams and the like.
Gambling affiliate commission hucksters think that they're so clever, but the facts are that most of them windup gambling their commission money back to the gambling website anyway. Only the gambling website truly wins.
In case anyone here has any doubts as to the enormous profits which an online gambling affiliate can reap, I ask you to look no further than my most recent Party Poker affiliate statement.
Payment Processing Center Affiliates PartyCashier affiliates@partycashier.com (+1) 866-907-3652 (Toll free for US and Canada only) 00-800-7000-7789 (For European countries) http://affiliates.partycashier.com
Disclaimer: We are licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar, and our games are tested by iTech Labs, a leading independent tester of gaming and wagering devices to ensure that the games are fair and operate correctly.
<< <i>I've mentioned it at least a few times: I played many hours a week for 3-4 years before I became profitable.
It was not easy or something I did casually. I became a student of the game, I read every book that there was to read, I asked people about the reasoning of why they played a hand a certain way, learned the nuiances of holdem, omaha and stud, played microlimits online, etc.... It was a long road to get where I am but for me it was worth it. Not everybody will have the skills, instincts or sticktoitiveness to pull it off, but it is possible. Any time anybody has ever asked me about doing it professionally, I always tell them that it's not a part-time thing and to be prepared to be a loser for at least 3 years.
It's obviously careless to say that anybody can jump online and win at poker. I've never said that; all I've done was refute your ridiculous theory that a skilled player cannot overcome a $3-$4 rake at higher limits. Just because you were a gambler and couldn't pull it off and believe that because you couldn't do it no one can, doesn't make your stupid theories any more true.
Also, I'd like to say that I have never once encouraged anybody to put money into an online poker account or play live poker. If they do, I'd be happy to give advice, but I will never encourage anybody to gamble. I recently helped set up an intervention for my brother's friend who had a problem, so don't for a second believe that I don't know that gambling can become a problem for some. If you consider my poker contest threads irresponsible, I think you need to lighten up and have a little fun with your life, or at least leave the people that want to have fun alone. Just like in these rip threads. Let us "losers" have our fun if you don't approve of our activities. >>
Lee - it's up to the moderators to decide what is responsible and what is irresponsible here. I've never once asked a moderator to pull a thread or even any single post, and I don't intend to start now. You make some excellent comments here, so I don't see why, especially when I would never interupt a live poker thread, I only made some comments after the tournie was either over or the player busted out and the thread was basically dead anyway. I don't see why you resent it so much since you say you're not involved in an affiliate commission program. I still don't think when there's a thread like that, another point of view shouldn't be expressed.
I hate to say this but part of me likes the poker threads, and hopefully seeing the gambler win, but after it's all over, I still think it should be okay to make a few comments towards the negative side of online poker. There are many more gambling threads in Sports Talk, and I guess negative comments about gambling are more accepted there because the posters there have thicker skins which is needed for sports talk smack.
It's not about me having fun or not having fun, it's just about presenting the other side if I feel like it and see fit - that's all...it's not personal even though you and Nam may think it is...it's just presenting a viewpoint that I feel needs to be presented out there as too many good people, especially young people, are getting sucked in to the addiction of gambling - and unfortunately it's getting worse.
<< <i>In case anyone here has any doubts as to the enormous profits which an online gambling affiliate can reap, I ask you to look no further than my most recent Party Poker affiliate statement.
Payment Processing Center Affiliates PartyCashier affiliates@partycashier.com (+1) 866-907-3652 (Toll free for US and Canada only) 00-800-7000-7789 (For European countries) http://affiliates.partycashier.com
Disclaimer: We are licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar, and our games are tested by iTech Labs, a leading independent tester of gaming and wagering devices to ensure that the games are fair and operate correctly.
<< <i>It's obvious from your derogatory posts that you condone name calling and violence...Sorry but I'm not going to be a part of that. >>
Next sentence:
<< <i>My advice to you Nam...get some psychiatric help. >>
It took you all of 3 seconds to become a part of it again. And did you forget about last week in the thread where you were speaking bad about the United States of America and said "FU punk" to me and then edited it as fast as you could like a coward with no backbone?
if they need to explain on a sport message board, the reasons why they gamble every day, its ok....
just hope you dont go the way of your "friend" and need an intervention.... >>
Yea, that's good advice - I will do that. It's become redundant anyway. Lee may not have enjoyed it, but I enjoyed the banter with him. Lee's actually got some good perspectives on gambling problems and I respect that. So I'll let it go...for now.
I agree with SteveK....dealers who sell wax for profit, more than likely keep the better stuff...I bought a lot of unopened packs from BBCexchange, and curiously they were practically devoid of decent players or better condition cards. I am not calling anyone out, I am just stating experience that I have had, and I have cracked a lot of wax both now and back in the day(I can remember cracking multiple cases of 1978-1980 like it was yesterday). I would never buy unopened wax unless I witnessed them being pulled from the actual case.
PS: Yes every now and then someone will pull something from a pack. Who would ever buy unopened material if it looked like nothing was in it?
I would never buy unopened wax unless I witnessed them being pulled from the actual case.
That is an excellent rule of thumb for more recent product, but unopened cases prior to 1977 or so are virtually non-existent in the marketplace, so you have to establish a level of trust with the dealer or collector you're purchasing from. There are a number of extremely honest collectors (not even really dealers, per se) out there, in addition, obviously, to Steve, but even Steve aggressively seeks to purchase unopened product from many of these same collectors. Determining authenricity is easier than dtermining if the pack was properly stored, as many packs that look mint to the naked eye wind up yielding damaged cards. As adult collectors, we are also far more discriminating than the average kid was back in 1975 when he went down to the corner store to plunk down his quarter for a cello pack, as centering and corner dings, etc, were not even an issue really back then. I opened a couple 75 mini packs last weekend and pulled a mint Brett RC, Munson, B. Robinson, Reggie Jackson and Winfield, but only the Winfield was decently centered. It got me to thinking that the odds of finding a nicely centered example of a specific card is even tougher than finding the card itself, in some cases.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> I would never buy unopened wax unless I witnessed them being pulled from the actual case.
That is an excellent rule of thumb for more recent product, but unopened cases prior to 1977 or so are virtually non-existent in the marketplace, so you have to establish a level of trust with the dealer or collector you're purchasing from. There are a number of extremely honest collectors (not even really dealers, per se) out there, in addition, obviously, to Steve, but even Steve aggressively seeks to purchase unopened product from many of these same collectors. Determining authenricity is easier than dtermining if the pack was properly stored, as many packs that look mint to the naked eye wind up yielding damaged cards. As adult collectors, we are also far more discriminating than the average kid was back in 1975 when he went down to the corner store to plunk down his quarter for a cello pack, as centering and corner dings, etc, were not even an issue really back then. I opened a couple 75 mini packs last weekend and pulled a mint Brett RC, Munson, B. Robinson, Reggie Jackson and Winfield, but only the Winfield was decently centered. It got me to thinking that the odds of finding a nicely centered example of a specific card is even tougher than finding the card itself, in some cases. >>
That is so true. I remember opening these packs and seeing many, many packs opened by neighborhood friends and while I don't specifically recall the ratio of cards being centered or off centered because as you noted, it simply wasn't a factor back then to kids collecting, but I do remember the miscut cards, especially the badly miscut cards. While collecting coins at the same time, I fully realized that coin errors were sometimes worth some big money such as a 1955 double-die Lincoln penny, however I knew that miscut cards weren't worth anything. But these badly miscut cards weren't that common and I thought they were kinda cool and I kept them and still have them...and of course they are worthless, except to me.
For sure though, the cards were never dinged coming out of the pack - the corners were always razor sharp. But there could be constant flaws at times - I remember those 1966 Outer Limits cards with the solid black borders. A number of times those cards had chipping on the edges and corners coming right out of a brand new fresh pack.
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you, not even close, as far as the "pattern" of card cuts in various packs, IE say if on a certain cello pack if the top card is off center than that means the rest of the cards below it are off center. I guess that's where the skill comes in to determine what packs might be a good bust or not. But I would have to believe in general that a dealer doing this all the time for a living, learns these patterns and takes advantage of his knowledge for profit and most if not all businesspeople would do the exact same thing.
If I had a 1985 cello pack and absolutely "knew" there was a gem mint 10 McGwire underneath some cards, am I gonna get that pack slabbed and sell it? Well if it's a "popular" well known pattern then I might because knowledgeable collectors would bid on the pack knowing that same information. But if it's something little known or maybe only known to me...then it makes no sense to "give away" money. And in my opinion certain baseball card pack sellers must certainly have some or a lot of this knowledge and buy-sell accordingly.
I don't begrudge one bit these dealers making as much money as they can, but as I noted in another thread, if I'm gonna take my chances, I'd rather do it with a seller who isn't a major dealer - it can be tough to do because of course there's a lot of nickel-dime pack sealing scammers out there. As I mentioned before on this thread or another, I've done quite well over the years, quite well, buying large lots of cards on ebay and other means, and making a good profit off them, and sort of keeping the cards I like for my collection - it's worked out very well.
But to illustrate how hard it is to do with unopened packs...I've never seen an ebay auction yet for unopened packs which met my criteria of being a likely truly good deal. Unopened packs is one tough game to try to make money on, but again, the enjoyment of ripping to many people is worth the money. Having ripped and seen more vintage waxpacks ripped over the years than possibly anyone here, I certainly understand the fun and excitement of doing so. Even kids in the 60's still enjoyed ripping hoping to get a Mantle or something good like that.
Topps definitely printed cards in sequence during this era, and though the sequence was often broken within the pack or rack sleeve, it was a pretty good indicator of what card would likely be inside if you knew the sequence. I've definitely noticed this in the packs I've opened from the mid 70s at least, and have made mental notes, so that I'm pretty sure what cards will follow once I see one I recall.
With regard to centering, the top card in a cello is often not indicative of the centering of the cards behind it, as I've often found beautifully centered cards behind an OC top card and vice versa. Of course, many issues from this era had such centerting issues (1975 Topps mini, 1976, 1973 OPC), that I've opened entire packs and not pulled one decently centered card.
Also, once you find a "run" of nice packs from a box, you best hold on to that baby, as having that knowledge will greatly improve your odds when busting open packs from that box. Conversely, many dealers will sell off single packs on ebay after opening a couple packs from a bad box, and the buyer will have no idea about any of that. That's another reason why buying single packs is such a crapshoot.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
<< <i>I'd also like to add that I find it humorous that you think it's a worthwhile effort to go onto a sportscard collecting message board and warn collectors of the unprofitablility of gambling on unopened packs. Like I said, find one person on this board or anywhere in the collecting community that believes opening wax is profitable. Just one. You might have an easier time going to McDonald's and finding someone who thinks french fries are healthy.
Since it seems obvious that you will jump into every rip thread with the same crap, I'm not going to debate you on it any more because I'd be wasting my time as much as you do. >>
The CU forum has 27101 members. I'm so saddened that I won't be able to chat with you anymore. Now I've only got 27100 members to chat with, oh make that only 27099 including your boy Nam. LOL
With mid to late 70's stuff and newer I have less of an issue with it because there's so much of it out there and the prices aren't that bad. Speaking of which, anyone want some unopened boxes of 81 Topps, 81 Donruss, 81 Fleer, 82 Topps, or 83 Topps?
RB
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>You might have an easier time going to McDonald's and finding someone who thinks french fries are healthy. >>
///////////////////////////////////////////
Yes.... I got my analogy for the day! I can always count on Lee.
My Registry Sets
My Registry Sets
<< <i>SteveK, it actually was a fun rip and aside from normal factory issues (print defects, centering) the cards from 1977-1983 were unbelievably clean with no gum damage or bad corners it was like you just bought them from the store the day topps delivered them. Sure it would have been nice to pull a star rookie that would grade out well and help offset the cost of the packs, but that isn't going to happen every time. Really all you are buying when you buy the vintage wax is a couple hours of entertainment nothing more. >>
Well of course that is understood and I agree with you. But you did make the comment "but it hasn't been real fun" and that's what my comments were based on. And frankly, that sort of comment from others seems to be fairly common these days with the rips in this forum.
My Registry Sets
<< <i>You mean you don't expect to leave the movie theater with more money than you came in with? You need to let people know about this right away! There might be some novice moviegoers out there who think they can make money by going to the movies. >>
No, according to you and your claim of 6 years of winning money at online poker, all they gotta do is logon to Pokerstars to make money, right Lee? We both know that this is what these comments from you and your boy Nam are all about.
So if you and your boy Nam can't stand the heat of criticism of the sucker's game of online poker, then don't post any more OT gambling threads, but I'm sure you're gonna have more "watch me at Pokerstars" threads and when you do, if I feel like it, I'm gonna come down on it like white on rice.
Steve
<< <i>Actually it was " Well, it's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun." which is just a little saying I picked up somewhere and I really didn't mean anything at all by it. >>
Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed the rip - I enjoyed it as well.
Steve
<< <i>I think I'm gonna order some vintage wax to open, I haven't been jobbed in a week or so. I know there is a 90% chance I get turds, but the only thing better than gambling and winning is gambling and losing. >>
+1 for turds analogy to cards
It was not easy or something I did casually. I became a student of the game, I read every book that there was to read, I asked people about the reasoning of why they played a hand a certain way, learned the nuiances of holdem, omaha and stud, played microlimits online, etc.... It was a long road to get where I am but for me it was worth it. Not everybody will have the skills, instincts or sticktoitiveness to pull it off, but it is possible. Any time anybody has ever asked me about doing it professionally, I always tell them that it's not a part-time thing and to be prepared to be a loser for at least 3 years.
It's obviously careless to say that anybody can jump online and win at poker. I've never said that; all I've done was refute your ridiculous theory that a skilled player cannot overcome a $3-$4 rake at higher limits. Just because you were a gambler and couldn't pull it off and believe that because you couldn't do it no one can, doesn't make your stupid theories any more true.
Also, I'd like to say that I have never once encouraged anybody to put money into an online poker account or play live poker. If they do, I'd be happy to give advice, but I will never encourage anybody to gamble. I recently helped set up an intervention for my brother's friend who had a problem, so don't for a second believe that I don't know that gambling can become a problem for some. If you consider my poker contest threads irresponsible, I think you need to lighten up and have a little fun with your life, or at least leave the people that want to have fun alone. Just like in these rip threads. Let us "losers" have our fun if you don't approve of our activities.
<< <i>I cant figure out why you keep mentioning me in sentences with online poker. Are you adding misinformed to unintelligent? >>
You flatter yourself too much - I couldn't care less about you or Lee personally when it comes to online poker...only to the extent that I don't like seeing anybody be a gambling addict. When I speak about online poker, it's in general terms of what a sucker's game that it is, and your idol Lee always seems to resent that.
Maybe I interfere with some people's plans to harvest internet friends, and then they introduce them at the right time to their gambling website affiliate program, where they can grossly profit off of them. This isn't anything new - this has been going on in internet forums for years, especially poker forums...but I think people should be aware of this scam, just like ebay scams and the like.
Gambling affiliate commission hucksters think that they're so clever, but the facts are that most of them windup gambling their commission money back to the gambling website anyway. Only the gambling website truly wins.
Steve
/////////////////////////////////////
Dear Wxxxxx3,
An amount of USD 15.51 has been credited to your affiliate PartyCashier Account.
Please keep this transaction information for your records:
Transaction ID: XXXXXXX78166476707
Amount:USD 15.51.
Date/Time Transaction: 04-JUN-08 08:23 EST
Fee charged:
For additional help contact us anytime!
Payment Processing Center
Affiliates PartyCashier
affiliates@partycashier.com
(+1) 866-907-3652 (Toll free for US and Canada only)
00-800-7000-7789 (For European countries)
http://affiliates.partycashier.com
Disclaimer:
We are licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar, and our games are tested by iTech Labs, a leading independent tester of gaming and wagering devices to ensure that the games are fair and operate correctly.
//////////////////
<< <i>I've mentioned it at least a few times: I played many hours a week for 3-4 years before I became profitable.
It was not easy or something I did casually. I became a student of the game, I read every book that there was to read, I asked people about the reasoning of why they played a hand a certain way, learned the nuiances of holdem, omaha and stud, played microlimits online, etc.... It was a long road to get where I am but for me it was worth it. Not everybody will have the skills, instincts or sticktoitiveness to pull it off, but it is possible. Any time anybody has ever asked me about doing it professionally, I always tell them that it's not a part-time thing and to be prepared to be a loser for at least 3 years.
It's obviously careless to say that anybody can jump online and win at poker. I've never said that; all I've done was refute your ridiculous theory that a skilled player cannot overcome a $3-$4 rake at higher limits. Just because you were a gambler and couldn't pull it off and believe that because you couldn't do it no one can, doesn't make your stupid theories any more true.
Also, I'd like to say that I have never once encouraged anybody to put money into an online poker account or play live poker. If they do, I'd be happy to give advice, but I will never encourage anybody to gamble. I recently helped set up an intervention for my brother's friend who had a problem, so don't for a second believe that I don't know that gambling can become a problem for some. If you consider my poker contest threads irresponsible, I think you need to lighten up and have a little fun with your life, or at least leave the people that want to have fun alone. Just like in these rip threads. Let us "losers" have our fun if you don't approve of our activities. >>
Lee - it's up to the moderators to decide what is responsible and what is irresponsible here. I've never once asked a moderator to pull a thread or even any single post, and I don't intend to start now. You make some excellent comments here, so I don't see why, especially when I would never interupt a live poker thread, I only made some comments after the tournie was either over or the player busted out and the thread was basically dead anyway. I don't see why you resent it so much since you say you're not involved in an affiliate commission program. I still don't think when there's a thread like that, another point of view shouldn't be expressed.
I hate to say this but part of me likes the poker threads, and hopefully seeing the gambler win, but after it's all over, I still think it should be okay to make a few comments towards the negative side of online poker. There are many more gambling threads in Sports Talk, and I guess negative comments about gambling are more accepted there because the posters there have thicker skins which is needed for sports talk smack.
It's not about me having fun or not having fun, it's just about presenting the other side if I feel like it and see fit - that's all...it's not personal even though you and Nam may think it is...it's just presenting a viewpoint that I feel needs to be presented out there as too many good people, especially young people, are getting sucked in to the addiction of gambling - and unfortunately it's getting worse.
Steve
<< <i>stevek would be hard pressed to find a dozen CU members that would avoid him with their car if they saw him crossing the street. >>
Nasty stuff even for an internet forum. Sorry Nam, I'm not going to be a part of your comments towards violence.
Get some psychiatric help.
<< <i>In case anyone here has any doubts as to the enormous profits which an online gambling affiliate can reap, I ask you to look no further than my most recent Party Poker affiliate statement.
/////////////////////////////////////
Dear Wxxxxx3,
An amount of USD 15.51 has been credited to your affiliate PartyCashier Account.
Please keep this transaction information for your records:
Transaction ID: XXXXXXX78166476707
Amount:USD 15.51.
Date/Time Transaction: 04-JUN-08 08:23 EST
Fee charged:
For additional help contact us anytime!
Payment Processing Center
Affiliates PartyCashier
affiliates@partycashier.com
(+1) 866-907-3652 (Toll free for US and Canada only)
00-800-7000-7789 (For European countries)
http://affiliates.partycashier.com
Disclaimer:
We are licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar, and our games are tested by iTech Labs, a leading independent tester of gaming and wagering devices to ensure that the games are fair and operate correctly.
////////////////// >>
Yea, but was that 15.51 million?
<< <i>.......I'm not going to be a part of your comments..... >>
Fine by me, as long as you don't dispute their accuracy.
<< <i>
<< <i>.......I'm not going to be a part of your comments..... >>
Fine by me, as long as you don't dispute their accuracy. >>
Here's an accurate comment for ya - get some psychiatric help.
<< <i>It's obvious from your derogatory posts that you condone name calling and violence...Sorry but I'm not going to be a part of that. >>
Next sentence:
<< <i>My advice to you Nam...get some psychiatric help. >>
It took you all of 3 seconds to become a part of it again.
if they need to explain on a sport message board, the reasons why they gamble every day, its ok....
just hope you dont go the way of your "friend" and need an intervention....
<< <i>steve just ignore them.....
if they need to explain on a sport message board, the reasons why they gamble every day, its ok....
just hope you dont go the way of your "friend" and need an intervention.... >>
Yea, that's good advice - I will do that. It's become redundant anyway. Lee may not have enjoyed it, but I enjoyed the banter with him. Lee's actually got some good perspectives on gambling problems and I respect that. So I'll let it go...for now.
Steve
PS: Yes every now and then someone will pull something from a pack. Who would ever buy unopened material if it looked like nothing was in it?
That is an excellent rule of thumb for more recent product, but unopened cases prior to 1977 or so are virtually non-existent in the marketplace, so you have to establish a level of trust with the dealer or collector you're purchasing from. There are a number of extremely honest collectors (not even really dealers, per se) out there, in addition, obviously, to Steve, but even Steve aggressively seeks to purchase unopened product from many of these same collectors. Determining authenricity is easier than dtermining if the pack was properly stored, as many packs that look mint to the naked eye wind up yielding damaged cards. As adult collectors, we are also far more discriminating than the average kid was back in 1975 when he went down to the corner store to plunk down his quarter for a cello pack, as centering and corner dings, etc, were not even an issue really back then. I opened a couple 75 mini packs last weekend and pulled a mint Brett RC, Munson, B. Robinson, Reggie Jackson and Winfield, but only the Winfield was decently centered. It got me to thinking that the odds of finding a nicely centered example of a specific card is even tougher than finding the card itself, in some cases.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> I would never buy unopened wax unless I witnessed them being pulled from the actual case.
That is an excellent rule of thumb for more recent product, but unopened cases prior to 1977 or so are virtually non-existent in the marketplace, so you have to establish a level of trust with the dealer or collector you're purchasing from. There are a number of extremely honest collectors (not even really dealers, per se) out there, in addition, obviously, to Steve, but even Steve aggressively seeks to purchase unopened product from many of these same collectors. Determining authenricity is easier than dtermining if the pack was properly stored, as many packs that look mint to the naked eye wind up yielding damaged cards. As adult collectors, we are also far more discriminating than the average kid was back in 1975 when he went down to the corner store to plunk down his quarter for a cello pack, as centering and corner dings, etc, were not even an issue really back then. I opened a couple 75 mini packs last weekend and pulled a mint Brett RC, Munson, B. Robinson, Reggie Jackson and Winfield, but only the Winfield was decently centered. It got me to thinking that the odds of finding a nicely centered example of a specific card is even tougher than finding the card itself, in some cases. >>
That is so true. I remember opening these packs and seeing many, many packs opened by neighborhood friends and while I don't specifically recall the ratio of cards being centered or off centered because as you noted, it simply wasn't a factor back then to kids collecting, but I do remember the miscut cards, especially the badly miscut cards. While collecting coins at the same time, I fully realized that coin errors were sometimes worth some big money such as a 1955 double-die Lincoln penny, however I knew that miscut cards weren't worth anything. But these badly miscut cards weren't that common and I thought they were kinda cool and I kept them and still have them...and of course they are worthless, except to me.
For sure though, the cards were never dinged coming out of the pack - the corners were always razor sharp. But there could be constant flaws at times - I remember those 1966 Outer Limits cards with the solid black borders. A number of times those cards had chipping on the edges and corners coming right out of a brand new fresh pack.
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you, not even close, as far as the "pattern" of card cuts in various packs, IE say if on a certain cello pack if the top card is off center than that means the rest of the cards below it are off center. I guess that's where the skill comes in to determine what packs might be a good bust or not. But I would have to believe in general that a dealer doing this all the time for a living, learns these patterns and takes advantage of his knowledge for profit and most if not all businesspeople would do the exact same thing.
If I had a 1985 cello pack and absolutely "knew" there was a gem mint 10 McGwire underneath some cards, am I gonna get that pack slabbed and sell it? Well if it's a "popular" well known pattern then I might because knowledgeable collectors would bid on the pack knowing that same information. But if it's something little known or maybe only known to me...then it makes no sense to "give away" money. And in my opinion certain baseball card pack sellers must certainly have some or a lot of this knowledge and buy-sell accordingly.
I don't begrudge one bit these dealers making as much money as they can, but as I noted in another thread, if I'm gonna take my chances, I'd rather do it with a seller who isn't a major dealer - it can be tough to do because of course there's a lot of nickel-dime pack sealing scammers out there. As I mentioned before on this thread or another, I've done quite well over the years, quite well, buying large lots of cards on ebay and other means, and making a good profit off them, and sort of keeping the cards I like for my collection - it's worked out very well.
But to illustrate how hard it is to do with unopened packs...I've never seen an ebay auction yet for unopened packs which met my criteria of being a likely truly good deal. Unopened packs is one tough game to try to make money on, but again, the enjoyment of ripping to many people is worth the money. Having ripped and seen more vintage waxpacks ripped over the years than possibly anyone here, I certainly understand the fun and excitement of doing so. Even kids in the 60's still enjoyed ripping hoping to get a Mantle or something good like that.
With regard to centering, the top card in a cello is often not indicative of the centering of the cards behind it, as I've often found beautifully centered cards behind an OC top card and vice versa. Of course, many issues from this era had such centerting issues (1975 Topps mini, 1976, 1973 OPC), that I've opened entire packs and not pulled one decently centered card.
Also, once you find a "run" of nice packs from a box, you best hold on to that baby, as having that knowledge will greatly improve your odds when busting open packs from that box. Conversely, many dealers will sell off single packs on ebay after opening a couple packs from a bad box, and the buyer will have no idea about any of that. That's another reason why buying single packs is such a crapshoot.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.