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The proper definition of MS62 is...

291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
... an overgraded AU58.

The reason why MS62 isn't a popular grade is because collectors (and dealers) don't want to pay the mint state premium for what they know is really an AU coin.
All glory is fleeting.

Comments

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In many cases an MS62 is a coin without wear but too heavily bag marked to be a higher grade.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    P 30 Official Guide to Coin Grading PCGS

    light marks over most of the coin, or several severe marks with the rest being clean
    any strike
    any luster
    eye appeal- neg to slightly positive
    LCoopie = Les
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If both of you above this post are correct what is the grade of the coin below?

    image
    image

    Ken
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>... an overgraded AU58.

    The reason why MS62 isn't a popular grade is because collectors (and dealers) don't want to pay the mint state premium for what they know is really an AU coin. >>



    I'll aggree that I have seen a few AU58's that where market graded into MS62 holders... but this isn't Gospil as the definition of the grade.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It probably depends a lot on the series. I think that there are legitimate MS-62's in Liberty $10's and $20's, for example.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If an MS62 is an overgraded AU58, then what are MS61 and MS60?

    I believe there are legitimate MS grades below 63.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    In too many cases, sadly you're right. MS-62 is the most common dumping ground for market-graded sliders. They may be nice coins, but they are still AU coins in MS holders.

    There are some real MS coins graded 62, but that grade does seem to have a stigma attached to it as the grade where sliders find their final coffins.
  • Newcomp103Newcomp103 Posts: 2,223 ✭
    I disagree complete... AU58 should be a coin with GREAT eye appeal that has only slight rub on the high points...(that would be a high grade MS 63 or higher if there was not the break in the luster). MS 62 should be a coin that shows no break in the luster, that has several marks that make the coin "ok" but not that exciting as far as eye appeal....and maybe has an average even weak strike. As has been stated on the forum...most people prefer 58s to 60-62s.
  • dlimb2dlimb2 Posts: 3,449
    AU58 shows a break in luster a MS62 does not!
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If an MS62 is an overgraded AU58, then what are MS61 and MS60?

    I believe there are legitimate MS grades below 63. >>

    Usually dogs in MS holders, especially MS-60 which is almost never used any more. With market grading, it's accepted that the nicest technical AU-58 coins are often worth more on the market than unattractive, baggy or luster-impaired low-end MS coins, and that's part of the reason why the nicer 58s are slabbed as 62 above the doggy MS coins graded 60 or 61.

    I don't have a problem saying the market values these coins at the level of an MS-62. I just hate seeing non-MS coins in MS holders.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Once again we question the opinion of the TPG's.... and yet... continue to send them coins and fees.... I marvel at the lemming-like performance I see...... Cheers, RickO
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭
    I don't have a problem saying the market values these coins at the level of an MS-62. I just hate seeing non-MS coins in MS holders.

    IMO it should not be the TPGs job to value coins by "net grading" them. But that sure is the case from what I've seen. Especially with rarer dated pieces.

    Regards, John
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  • options26options26 Posts: 1,431
    Here is an NGC MS61 I cherried a while back. I do believe it is a legit MS coin, it's just seen some better bag days.

    image
    Life member of the SSDC
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Once again we question the opinion of the TPG's.... and yet... continue to send them coins and fees.... I marvel at the lemming-like performance I see...... Cheers, RickO >>



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  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IMO it should not be the TPGs job to value coins by "net grading" them. But that sure is the case from what I've seen. Especially with rarer dated pieces.

    Regards, John >>




    I agree. The TPG's should ONLY grade the coin as it technically grades.....not figure in the "market grade" and slab as such.

    wes
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  • jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421 ✭
    IMO, here is a perfect example of what you are talking about. This coin could go MS62 any day. Unfortunately its in an AU slab....for now.image

    image
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭


    << <i>AU58 shows a break in luster a MS62 does not! >>



    By which standard? I understood that by most standards, impaired luster is not incompatible with lower MS grades.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>By which standard? I understood that by most standards, impaired luster is not incompatible with lower MS grades. >>

    Generally impaired luster does not preclude an MS grade, though it may limit the grade to the low end (i.e. 60-63 or so).

    But specific luster breaks on the high points are generally indicative of an AU coin.

  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭
    [q But specific luster breaks on the high points are generally indicative of an AU coin. >>



    I agree. The location of the luster breaks is key.
  • ModernDollarNutModernDollarNut Posts: 886


    << <i>If both of you above this post are correct what is the grade of the coin below?

    image
    image

    Ken >>



    Ken, I know nothing about Mercury Dimes but ignorance never has gotten in the way of making a fool of myself...

    If that gorgeous dime is MS62 (and I love the obverse die cracks), could it be a "net grade" based on the conflict between clean rims, sharp reverse, strong luster, and possibly "maybe" luster breaks over her hair locks?

    That die may have become just distorted enough from beginning to crack up that her hair didn't strike up in which case there may even be a pseudo luster break over the hair???

    A challenging dime to grade in 4.7 seconds, LOL...

    What are your thoughts? Rob
    Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

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  • Newcomp103Newcomp103 Posts: 2,223 ✭
    "A challenging dime to grade in 4.7 seconds"


    Oh ok...since HRH and Coinking give their graders 10 seconds...you can have an additional 5.3 seconds if you need them! image
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Perhaps we should just focus on price rather than grades. I just cannot consistently figure out why a certain coin grades one way versus another.
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  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If an MS62 is an overgraded AU58, then what are MS61 and MS60?

    I believe there are legitimate MS grades below 63. >>



    I have the same question. Also, what about the MS 63?
    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
  • ModernDollarNutModernDollarNut Posts: 886
    There can be a substantial grading-sequence disconnect between high-grade AU and low-grade MS: it is not necessarily a continuum.

    The disconnect it greater in some series than others so the question of low MS grades being circulated coins is highly series-specific.

    Some lusterless 71 and 72 Ikes that are probably AU slip into PCGS MS63 holders. Hard to see luster breaks if there is little or no luster to begin with.

    The remarkably heavy planchet chatter on many Ikes compounds the problem of grading low-end MS Ikes (planchet chatter being the residual multitudenous nicks and dings the heavy Ike planchet acquires in its painful trip through the rotating baffled annealing oven, dings that are often not fully struck out). PCGS graders seem to differ a bit in their tolerance of planchet chatter though generally when severe it results in MS60-62 Ikes.

    It is interesting that the purely technical grading that some still long for would result in a large number of high-grade banged-up-looking Ikes as planchet chatter can often be separated from bag and other pre-any-circulation damage. Rob
    Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

    Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
  • MajorDutyMajorDuty Posts: 1,998
    Guess the grade:

    image
    image
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    From the PCGS glossary:

    MS-62
    This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "62" (the numerical designation of that grade). This grade is nearly in the "choice" or MS63 category, but there is usually one thing that keeps it from a higher grader. Expect to find excessive marks or an extremely poor strike or dark and unattractive toning. Some MS62 coins will have clean surfaces and reasonably good eye appeal but exhibit many hairlines on the fields and devices.
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  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think there are a lot a ways a coin can be valued as an MS62 price and think the premise in the OP is an oversimplification of reality

    edited to add: Change the word "proper" (which implies only) to "one" and I'll agree.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe you have given the practical definition, not the proper definition.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"A challenging dime to grade in 4.7 seconds"


    Oh ok...since HRH and Coinking give their graders 10 seconds...you can have an additional 5.3 seconds if you need them! image >>



    Yeah but what happens when a grader has to scratch his arse while your coin is being graded imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    It's rare to see an AU58 Morgan in an MS62 holder.
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    "Yeah but what happens when a grader has to scratch his arse while your coin is being graded "
    -----

    You get a really nasty fingerprint!!

    image

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    just so noone misunderstands me, i'd like to go on record as saying that the continuing "AU58 in an MS62" holder rant by the members of this forum is a pathetic bunch of BS that is idiotic at best and sour grapes at worst.

    but that's just me, so whine on......................................
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image Keets.. why don't you tell us what your REALLY think... image However, I agree, totally. Cheers, RickO
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1.) Learn how to grade, as TPG graders are only human... since computer grading never took off. image

    2.) Learn how to grade, and if you don't agree with the slab insert don't buy the coin. image

    3.) Learn how to grade, as if your buying coins based purely on the slab insert... you need to have your head examined. imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

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