In egypt every thing pictured was made to scale of importance. if a god was in a picture, its tallest to shortest. the importance of the god, or gods, over all the other images according to size.
ancient Egypt the family was important. Its importance is demonstrated in part through the many references to the family in a variety of texts and documents, numerous depictions of it in statues and paintings, and the large number of familial relationships among the gods and goddesses. A representation of an elite family, with a father, a mother, and children, usually portrays the father as the largest figure, and therefore the most important. The mother, who is generally smaller, stands or sits beside him, and the two often embrace or hold hands
<< <i> many references among the gods and goddesses. >>
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
The front of each Silver Owl honors Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom and warfare. The reverse bears the Owl, a symbol of Greek wisdom surrounded by an olive sprig, denoting Athenian prosperity in the export of olive oil.
note the gods, are mentioned again, and are depicted on coins.
Any one have a photo of the original 2008 platinum coin with the owl?
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
This is a fascinating and informative thread. Thank you all for opening up my eyes to some new things.
Thestig, thanks in particular for your thought-provoking evidence of the vulture on many coins, plus the symbolism of the rope; I'd never heard that one before as it relates to coins or reeded edges.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>This is a fascinating and informative thread. Thank you all for opening up my eyes to some new things.
Thestig, thanks in particular for your thought-provoking evidence of the vulture on many coins, plus the symbolism of the rope; I'd never heard that one before as it relates to coins or reeded edges.
>>
Thank you. you never know what you will find, or unveil when you seek out information in depth.
I will try to add more info about the ropes significants, or its knots.
More commonly known as a cartouche. The shape represents a loop of rope in which a name is written. A Shenu is protector of that name.
A loop of rope that has no beginning and no end, it symbolized eternity. The sun disk is often depicted in the center of it. The shen also seems to be a symbol of protection. It is often seen being clutched by deities in bird form, Horus the falcon, Mut the vulture. Hovering over Pharaohs head with their wings outstretched in a gesture of protection. The word shen comes from the word "shenu" which means "encircle," and in its elongated form became the cartouche which surrounded the king's name.
Shen
12877. Silver 1/4 drachm or denarius, Meshorer, Sup. 4; Schmitt-Korte and Price,"Nabataean Coinage III", NumChron 1994, pl. 10, choice VF, Petra mint, 1.069g, 12.0mm, 0o, obverse diademed head of Obodas II, Syllaes' Shin = SyllaeAramaic monogram (shin) behind; reverse S (us) and H (Het = Aretas) in wreath; very rare Nabataean Kingdom, Syllaeus and Aretas IV, 9 B.C. First wreath coin? to replace the rope?
<< <i>Shin = SyllaeAramaic monogram (shin) behind; reverse S (us) and H (Het = Aretas >>
Note the word shen from Egypt, and shin in the above description.
shen ring Shen Ring
The circular shen ring represents the concept of eternity, having no beginning and no end. It is associated with the solar disk, the serpent that bites its tail, and divine birds that are often shown holding the sign in their claws.
The wreath is very similar..
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
Alexander the Great burned the Library of Alex- andria in 1 AD almost all his writing is discounted.
Alexandria's library was burned by the muslems. It was founded after Alexander died, long before 1AD.
Hieroglyphs are somewhat phonetic but signs can have several meanings. For example the "Standing duck" can stand for the sound "SAH", it can mean "Son of" or it can mean (drum roll) "duck." Also no language has that many sounds. One book I almost ordered claims to show 6800.
"It is good for the state that the people do not think."
I blieve the "N" in Osiris N. is to be replced by the name of whoever commissions the copy of the Pyramid Text, also known as "The Book of Going Forth by Day". It doesnh't tell you how to get to the afterlife but what to do after you get there.
"It is good for the state that the people do not think."
<< <i>I blieve the "N" in Osiris N. is to be replced by the name of whoever commissions the copy of the Pyramid Text, also known as "The Book of Going Forth by Day". It doesnh't tell you how to get to the afterlife but what to do after you get there. >>
The phaeroh was responsible for everything in ancient Egypt. The sun had to rise the river flood and the crops grow or it was the king (N) who paid the price. Osiris is one of their gods who was believed by egyptol- ogists to be lord of the dead but the ancient texts give him much more in- credible jobs. The phaeroh was a Horus, son of Osiris, but in a very real way he was Osiris as well. Whatever happens to Osiris happens to (N).
It's a little more accurate to think of N. as the dearly departed. He is the recently deceased king who is to ascend to heaven on the pyramid which literally means "instrument of ascension" in Egyptian.
This isn't necessary to understand the utterance perhaps but the legend of Osiris has him as an agricultural god who dies at the hands of his brother Set. He is reassembled by Isis who concieves Horus through him and then he is again murdered by Set. It is Horus who is appointed to rule in the house of his father so that Re may fly over daily. It is Horus who is the de- ity in the land of the pyramids extending from Giza to the Fayuum Depress- ion. It is Osiris who is the Lord of Caverns and is carried on the back of his brother Set as punishment by Thot for Osiris' murder.
Horus is protected by his mother from his uncle Set until he becomes old and strong enough to avenge his father in an epic battle in which he looses an eye (but curiuously this eye has about 45 brothers) while Set looses his testicles.
Curiously as well, it is natron (a form of salt) which allows Osiris (N) to be devine and to stand. He is at the head of bows (sky arcs) and He fills an Eye of Horus. It is I[].t of which he is composed and he has "evil comings" which only magic and charms can defend against.
1611A's meaning is very elusive to me. Osiris' father is Geb (the Earth) but I'd guess that this is not a reference to Geb since there is a feminine pronoun used.
edited to add; on further reflection I'd guess "settleth" means to avenge the murder so that Osiris is protecting his son (the dead king) as a Horus in re- payment for his murder being avenged. This seems to fit reasonably well.
Some of these are more elusive than others. At least this one doesn't have a lot of untranslated words or missing text as most all of them do. If you really want a tough one check out #473. This one I call "clockwork pyramid".
Utterance 590.
1610a. To say: Osiris N., behold, thou art avenged; thou livest;
1610b. thou movest daily, without anything being disordered in thee (or, there is no disorder in thee).
1611a. Thou hast settled for (thy) father, so (thy) father did the same for thee,
1611b. like the vulture which places herself over her son.
<< <i>Egyptian methology changes as one moves through time and as one moves from city to city. >>
It does change dramatically over time. I try to stay at the time and place of the Giza pyramids as much as possible but so much of the material has to be guessed as to age.
The Osiris legend was really invented by the Greeks. At least there are no known Egyptian versions of it except in highly fragmented form. I strongly suspect that the fragments have much more meaning than the legend itself. The fragments were based on actual events and were a fanciful way to say things which were meant literally while the Greek version was a worked and reworked telling thousands of years after the events which led to the story.
what is the significant of these utterances, as per the vulture? Are you finally coming into the light, because there is great supporting evidence that prove the vulture was way more significant than an eagle could have possibly been?
The vulture is seen in conjunction with the cartouche wings spread out, for added protection.
Text The Mortuary temple of Queen Hatshepsut (1) was built between years 7 and 22 of heir reign (1502 -1482 B.C.). The temple complex is laid out on three terraces raising from the plain linked by ramps, and tself is partly hewn from the rock situated at the foot of sheer cliffs. Hatshepsut was one of the very few female Pharaohs ever to rule Egypt, she was at once aunt, stepmother and mother-in-law of Thutmosis III and co-ruler with him. Her full name was Maat-Ka-Raa Khnmet-Amuwn Hatshepsut II (The One who is joined with Amuwn, The foremost of Women). The temple site had for a long time been revered as a Holy place associated with the cult of the mother godderss Hathor while the temple itself was dedicated to Amuwn, and Anubis of the dead,
I wonder if there was going to be a statue placed on top, but was never completed. .
The Double Crown
This fully articulated Double Crown depiction from a painted limestone relief in the chapel of King Ptolemy I at Tuna el-Gebel is rare. The complementary character of the White and Red Crowns finds expression in their combination as the Double Crown, most commonly called shmty (The Two Powerful Ones). When combined in this manner, the resulting crown symbolized kingship over the entire country. It also is depicted on the heads of gods associated either with kingship, such as Horus or with cosmic rule, like Atum. Worn surmounting the vulture cap, it also forms part of the headdress of the goddess Mut. The Double Crown is attested in representations from the 1st Dynasty onward. It can be found in the Pyramid Texts, and from the Middle Kingdom on, the Double Crown may replace the Red Crown in complementary representations of the Upper and Lower Egyptian crowns.
Interestingly, depictions of the Double Crown seem to be considerably more rare than representations of the White and Red Crowns alone. In two dimensional representations, the double crown is typically depicted in a very stylized manner, with the Red Crown section largely omitted In sculptures depicting the Double Crown, rarely is the curled "wire" present, either because it has been broken off, but more frequently, it would seem to be purposely omitted.
Here, Ramesses III wears the Red Crown combined with the Two Feathers CrownThere are numerous combinations of royal and divine crowns and their elements. Most common is the combination of the nemes and Double Crown, which probably expressed the two most prominent royal titles, "Son of Re" and "Lord of the Two Lands." The combination of the atef and nemes, which appears from the time of Tuthmosis I, is almost as common. Representing the two typical insignia of the god Herishef from the New Kingdom on, it may symbolize the combined royal aspect of the Son of Re and (Son of) Osiris. Like many objects connected with symbolize in Ancient Egypt, various crowns could be combined to create different attributes.
During the Greco-Roman period the composite crowns became more and more elaborate, as more types of crowns were also added. more info
Lord of the Two Lands. Two worlds? or two lands?
Your Lincoln memorial? Obviously this structure did appear on coinage, and we also reproduced it in Washington. Vulture with shen, or wreath.. No comment on the mars memorial? steps windows statue..
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
The Egyptians would have found incest abhorant and certainly wouldn't ascribe such things to their gods.
Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem.
"It is good for the state that the people do not think."
<< <i>Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem. >>
No one even really knows who the kings were from the giant pyramid age and none of their mummies survive. There are a few fragments which they believe to belong to a king but even the sex of the fragment isn't known so there must be a lot of supposition.
Incest and inbreeding among royalty is not very uncommon even up to the mod- ern era. You may well be right that it wouldn't appall them to see in the Gods but people are much more encouraged to emulate or immitate gods than royalty.
I still doubt that there would be true incest among their deities. It seems much more likely that they had properties which varied to the situation and some of these properties were family relationships.
Utterance #508
...1118a. Ho, whence, pray, art thou come, my son, O king?
1118b. He is come to these his two mothers, the two vultures,
1118c. They of the long hair and hanging breasts,
1118d. who are on the hill of œḥœḥ.
1119a. They draw their breasts over the mouth of N.,
1119b. but they do not wean him forever.
Vultures do seem to have been highly respected in ancient Egypt. Whether this has much bearing on the contention, I don't know. Obviously they knew that birds don't suckle their young so this shows the high respect in which they held the birds.
The Pyramid Texts were a sort of Bible for the Egyptians. They contained curses, blessings, hymms, incantations, prayers, wishes, spells, and poetry.
but people are much more encouraged to emulate or immitate gods than royalty.
The pharoah WAS a god. But I don't know of any evidence that the common population was into incest. A prince whose mother was of lesser rank would enhance his claim to the throme by marriage to his /2 sister whose mother was of higher rank.
"It is good for the state that the people do not think."
<< <i>The Egyptians would have found incest abhorant and certainly wouldn't ascribe such things to their gods.
Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem. >>
Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians.
Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
This is a dangerous practice.
Marriage between siblings is even more dangerous.
Perhaps this explains why Horus had the head of a bird.
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost.
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost. >>
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
symbolism, coins, and were it all started.
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost. >>
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost. >>
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
symbolism, coins, and were it all started. >>
There's no evidence of that. >>
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
I could cite chapter and verse from the Pyramid Texts that imply most of the world's religions came from Egypt. Even the iconography seems to have originated in Egypt. Egypt had relatively little impact on most of the oriental cultures but they've had less impact on ours.
Egypt seems to have been an amalgam of races and peoples. We are only now beginning to understand how the race spread through the world but almost everything passed through Egypt at one time or ano- ther. Between around 4000 BC and 2200 BC they were just about the center of the world.
Most western civilization passed through Greece. Greeks were in Egypt long before Alexander. If you were a Greek and saw the pyramids you would be impressed.
"It is good for the state that the people do not think."
<< <i>No comment on the mars memorial? steps windows statue.. >>
Actually, I was hoping that had been posted there by accident, because wacky conspiracy theories about NASA hiding evidence of ancient Martian civilizations have absolutely nothing to do with the coins under discussion, or your hypothesis that ancient Egyptian symbolism continued uninterrupted down to today's cultures and empires.
<< <i>...Obviously this structure did appear on coinage... >>
I'm not aware of any coins, ancient or modern, that depict the temple of Hatshepsut.
The obelisk, however, is a cultural symbol that has been deliberately and premeditatedly taken directly from the Egyptians, passed down through the Romans, and reused in modern times.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
<< <i>Most western civilization passed through Greece. Greeks were in Egypt long before Alexander. If you were a Greek and saw the pyramids you would be impressed. >>
Granted. But Greece was a johnny come lately by Egyptian standards.
Greece was the "center of the world between, what?, about 1200 BC and 400 BC.
There were no giant pyramids built after about 2300 BC and possibly a few hundred years ealier. All the later ones are quite small and quite flimsy in comparison.
1724a. To say: Thou who livest art living, father, in this thy name of "With the gods"; 1724b. thou shalt dawn as Wepwawet, a soul at the head of the living, 1724c. that mighty one at the head of the spirits. 1725a. The king N. is a ḥd-wr, who is at your head, spirits; 1725b. the king N. is the great mighty-one, who is at your head, spirits; 1725c. the king N. is a Thot among you, gods. 1726a. The bolt is drawn for thee, 1726b. (the bolt) to the two ram-portals, which hold people back. 1726c. Thou countest enemies; thou takest the hand of the imperishable stars. 1727a. Thine eyes are open; thine ears are open; 1727b. enter into the house of the guardian; let thy father Geb guard thee. 1728a. The water-holes are united for thee; the lakes are brought together for thee, 1728b. for Horus who will avenge his father, for king N. who will avenge his body. 1729a. A vulture greater than thou (does) triple homage to thee. 1729b. It is agreeable to thy nose on account of the smell of the ’iḫ.t-wt.t-crown.
This one can't be taken at face value I believe, but the specific line nearly can.
Comments
the importance of the god, or gods, over all the other images according to size.
ancient Egypt the family was important. Its importance is demonstrated in part through the many references to the family in a variety of texts and documents, numerous depictions of it in statues and paintings, and the large number of familial relationships among the gods and goddesses. A representation of an elite family, with a father, a mother, and children, usually portrays the father as the largest figure, and therefore the most important. The mother, who is generally smaller, stands or sits beside him, and the two often embrace or hold hands
<< <i> many references among the gods and goddesses. >>
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
The front of each Silver Owl honors Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom and warfare. The reverse bears the Owl, a symbol of Greek wisdom surrounded by an olive sprig, denoting Athenian prosperity in the export of olive oil.
note the gods, are mentioned again, and are depicted on coins.
Any one have a photo of the original 2008 platinum coin with the owl?
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I don't think Heiroglyphs have phonetic values like letters do, do they? I don't really know. Big Alan, what can you tell us?
Thestig, thanks in particular for your thought-provoking evidence of the vulture on many coins, plus the symbolism of the rope; I'd never heard that one before as it relates to coins or reeded edges.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>This is a fascinating and informative thread. Thank you all for opening up my eyes to some new things.
Thestig, thanks in particular for your thought-provoking evidence of the vulture on many coins, plus the symbolism of the rope; I'd never heard that one before as it relates to coins or reeded edges.
>>
Thank you. you never know what you will find, or unveil when you seek out information in depth.
I will try to add more info about the ropes significants, or its knots.
<< <i>
History Rope. Text
Symbolism you may see on coins, and the meaning.
More commonly known as a cartouche. The shape represents a loop of rope in which a name is written. A Shenu is protector of that name.
A loop of rope that has no beginning and no end, it symbolized eternity. The sun disk is often depicted in the center of it. The shen also seems to be a symbol of protection. It is often seen being clutched by deities in bird form, Horus the falcon, Mut the vulture. Hovering over Pharaohs head with their wings outstretched in a gesture of protection. The word shen comes from the word "shenu" which means "encircle," and in its elongated form became the cartouche which surrounded the king's name.
Shen
12877. Silver 1/4 drachm or denarius, Meshorer, Sup. 4; Schmitt-Korte and Price,"Nabataean Coinage III", NumChron 1994, pl. 10, choice VF, Petra mint, 1.069g, 12.0mm, 0o, obverse diademed head of Obodas II, Syllaes' Shin = SyllaeAramaic monogram (shin) behind; reverse S (us) and H (Het = Aretas) in wreath; very rare
Nabataean Kingdom, Syllaeus and Aretas IV, 9 B.C. First wreath coin? to replace the rope?
<< <i>Shin = SyllaeAramaic monogram (shin) behind; reverse S (us) and H (Het = Aretas >>
Note the word shen from Egypt, and shin in the above description.
shen ring
Shen Ring
The circular shen ring represents the concept of eternity, having no beginning and no end. It is associated with the solar disk, the serpent that bites its tail, and divine birds that are often shown holding the sign in their claws.
The wreath is very similar..
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
andria in 1 AD almost all his writing is discounted.
Alexandria's library was burned by the muslems. It was founded after Alexander died, long before 1AD.
Hieroglyphs are somewhat phonetic but signs can have several meanings. For example the "Standing duck" can stand for the sound "SAH", it can mean "Son of" or it can mean (drum roll) "duck." Also no language has that many sounds. One book I almost ordered claims to show 6800.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>
Alexandria's library was burned by the muslems. It was founded after Alexander died, long before 1AD.
>>
D'oh. Thank you.
I should stay away from stuff I'm not familiar with. I'm really surprised it was Muslims who burned it though.
I don't mean to side track though.
Utterance 590.
1610a. To say: Osiris N., behold, thou art avenged; thou livest;
1610b. thou movest daily, without anything being disordered in thee (or, there is no disorder in thee).
1611a. Thou hast settled for (thy) father, so (thy) father did the same for thee,
1611b. like the vulture which places herself over her son.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>I blieve the "N" in Osiris N. is to be replced by the name of whoever commissions the copy of the Pyramid Text, also known as "The Book of Going Forth by Day". It doesnh't tell you how to get to the afterlife but what to do after you get there. >>
The phaeroh was responsible for everything in ancient Egypt. The sun
had to rise the river flood and the crops grow or it was the king (N) who
paid the price. Osiris is one of their gods who was believed by egyptol-
ogists to be lord of the dead but the ancient texts give him much more in-
credible jobs. The phaeroh was a Horus, son of Osiris, but in a very real
way he was Osiris as well. Whatever happens to Osiris happens to (N).
It's a little more accurate to think of N. as the dearly departed. He is the
recently deceased king who is to ascend to heaven on the pyramid which
literally means "instrument of ascension" in Egyptian.
This isn't necessary to understand the utterance perhaps but the legend
of Osiris has him as an agricultural god who dies at the hands of his brother
Set. He is reassembled by Isis who concieves Horus through him and then
he is again murdered by Set. It is Horus who is appointed to rule in the
house of his father so that Re may fly over daily. It is Horus who is the de-
ity in the land of the pyramids extending from Giza to the Fayuum Depress-
ion. It is Osiris who is the Lord of Caverns and is carried on the back of his
brother Set as punishment by Thot for Osiris' murder.
Horus is protected by his mother from his uncle Set until he becomes old
and strong enough to avenge his father in an epic battle in which he looses
an eye (but curiuously this eye has about 45 brothers) while Set looses
his testicles.
Curiously as well, it is natron (a form of salt) which allows Osiris (N) to be
devine and to stand. He is at the head of bows (sky arcs) and He fills an
Eye of Horus. It is I[].t of which he is composed and he has "evil comings"
which only magic and charms can defend against.
1611A's meaning is very elusive to me. Osiris' father is Geb (the Earth) but
I'd guess that this is not a reference to Geb since there is a feminine pronoun
used.
edited to add; on further reflection I'd guess "settleth" means to avenge the
murder so that Osiris is protecting his son (the dead king) as a Horus in re-
payment for his murder being avenged. This seems to fit reasonably well.
Some of these are more elusive than others. At least this one doesn't have
a lot of untranslated words or missing text as most all of them do. If you really
want a tough one check out #473. This one I call "clockwork pyramid".
Utterance 590.
1610a. To say: Osiris N., behold, thou art avenged; thou livest;
1610b. thou movest daily, without anything being disordered in thee (or, there is no disorder in thee).
1611a. Thou hast settled for (thy) father, so (thy) father did the same for thee,
1611b. like the vulture which places herself over her son.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>Egyptian methology changes as one moves through time and as one moves from city to city. >>
It does change dramatically over time. I try to stay at the time and
place of the Giza pyramids as much as possible but so much of the
material has to be guessed as to age.
The Osiris legend was really invented by the Greeks. At least there
are no known Egyptian versions of it except in highly fragmented form.
I strongly suspect that the fragments have much more meaning than
the legend itself. The fragments were based on actual events and
were a fanciful way to say things which were meant literally while the
Greek version was a worked and reworked telling thousands of years
after the events which led to the story.
The Egyptians would have found incest abhorant and certainly wouldn't
ascribe such things to their gods.
tuthmosis
The vulture is seen in conjunction with the cartouche wings spread out, for added protection.
Text
The Mortuary temple of Queen Hatshepsut (1) was built between years 7 and 22 of heir reign (1502 -1482 B.C.). The temple complex is laid out on three terraces raising from the plain linked by ramps, and tself is partly hewn from the rock situated at the foot of sheer cliffs. Hatshepsut was one of the very few female Pharaohs ever to rule Egypt, she was at once aunt, stepmother and mother-in-law of Thutmosis III and co-ruler with him. Her full name was Maat-Ka-Raa Khnmet-Amuwn Hatshepsut II (The One who is joined with Amuwn, The foremost of Women). The temple site had for a long time been revered as a Holy place associated with the cult of the mother godderss Hathor while the temple itself was dedicated to Amuwn, and Anubis of the dead,
I wonder if there was going to be a statue placed on top, but was never completed.
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The Double Crown
This fully articulated Double Crown depiction from a painted limestone relief in the chapel of King Ptolemy I at Tuna el-Gebel is rare. The complementary character of the White and Red Crowns finds expression in their combination as the Double Crown, most commonly called shmty (The Two Powerful Ones). When combined in this manner, the resulting crown symbolized kingship over the entire country. It also is depicted on the heads of gods associated either with kingship, such as Horus or with cosmic rule, like Atum. Worn surmounting the vulture cap, it also forms part of the headdress of the goddess Mut. The Double Crown is attested in representations from the 1st Dynasty onward. It can be found in the Pyramid Texts, and from the Middle Kingdom on, the Double Crown may replace the Red Crown in complementary representations of the Upper and Lower Egyptian crowns.
Interestingly, depictions of the Double Crown seem to be considerably more rare than representations of the White and Red Crowns alone. In two dimensional representations, the double crown is typically depicted in a very stylized manner, with the Red Crown section largely omitted In sculptures depicting the Double Crown, rarely is the curled "wire" present, either because it has been broken off, but more frequently, it
would seem to be purposely omitted.
Here, Ramesses III wears the Red Crown combined with the Two Feathers CrownThere are numerous combinations of royal and divine crowns and their elements. Most common is the combination of the nemes and Double Crown, which probably expressed the two most prominent royal titles, "Son of Re" and "Lord of the Two Lands." The combination of the atef and nemes, which appears from the time of Tuthmosis I, is almost as common. Representing the two typical insignia of the god Herishef from the New Kingdom on, it may symbolize the combined royal aspect of the Son of Re and (Son of) Osiris. Like many objects connected with symbolize in Ancient Egypt, various crowns could be combined to create different attributes.
During the Greco-Roman period the composite crowns became more and more elaborate, as more types of crowns were also added. more info
Lord of the Two Lands. Two worlds? or two lands?
Your Lincoln memorial? Obviously this structure did appear on coinage, and we also reproduced it in Washington. Vulture with shen, or wreath..
No comment on the mars memorial? steps windows statue..
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
ascribe such things to their gods.
Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem. >>
No one even really knows who the kings were from the giant pyramid age and
none of their mummies survive. There are a few fragments which they believe
to belong to a king but even the sex of the fragment isn't known so there must
be a lot of supposition.
Incest and inbreeding among royalty is not very uncommon even up to the mod-
ern era. You may well be right that it wouldn't appall them to see in the Gods but
people are much more encouraged to emulate or immitate gods than royalty.
I still doubt that there would be true incest among their deities. It seems much
more likely that they had properties which varied to the situation and some of
these properties were family relationships.
Utterance #508
...1118a. Ho, whence, pray, art thou come, my son, O king?
1118b. He is come to these his two mothers, the two vultures,
1118c. They of the long hair and hanging breasts,
1118d. who are on the hill of œḥœḥ.
1119a. They draw their breasts over the mouth of N.,
1119b. but they do not wean him forever.
Vultures do seem to have been highly respected in ancient Egypt. Whether this has much
bearing on the contention, I don't know. Obviously they knew that birds don't suckle their
young so this shows the high respect in which they held the birds.
The Pyramid Texts were a sort of Bible for the Egyptians. They contained curses, blessings,
hymms, incantations, prayers, wishes, spells, and poetry.
people are much more encouraged to emulate or immitate gods than royalty.
The pharoah WAS a god. But I don't know of any evidence that the common population was into incest. A prince whose mother was of lesser rank would enhance his claim to the throme by marriage to his /2 sister whose mother was of higher rank.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>The Egyptians would have found incest abhorant and certainly wouldn't
ascribe such things to their gods.
Incest was long practicerd in th royal family. Since the pharoah was a god it would be accepted that he, or she, wuld marry a sibling. Two children of a god would produce the best future god. It also cut down that nasty in-law problem. >>
Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>
Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
This is a dangerous practice.
Marriage between siblings is even more dangerous.
Perhaps this explains why Horus had the head of a bird.
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost.
<< <i>
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost.
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
symbolism, coins, and were it all started.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost.
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
symbolism, coins, and were it all started.
There's no evidence of that.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Incest weddings is a common thing nowadays in Egypt too. First cousins marrying between them is something that comes very naturally to modern Egyptians. >>
... and to others in the Middle East as well, which explains a lot about current events there.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what this thread is about? I'm lost.
Thread Title: Amerian coins are a by product of what empire?
The winner is Egypt, along with many other cultures around the world.
symbolism, coins, and were it all started.
There's no evidence of that. >>
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
<< <i>
There's no evidence of that. >>
I'd beg to differ.
I could cite chapter and verse from the Pyramid Texts that imply most
of the world's religions came from Egypt. Even the iconography seems
to have originated in Egypt. Egypt had relatively little impact on most
of the oriental cultures but they've had less impact on ours.
Egypt seems to have been an amalgam of races and peoples. We are
only now beginning to understand how the race spread through the
world but almost everything passed through Egypt at one time or ano-
ther. Between around 4000 BC and 2200 BC they were just about the
center of the world.
Most western civilization passed through Greece. Greeks were in Egypt long before Alexander. If you were a Greek and saw the pyramids you would be impressed.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>No comment on the mars memorial? steps windows statue.. >>
Actually, I was hoping that had been posted there by accident, because wacky conspiracy theories about NASA hiding evidence of ancient Martian civilizations have absolutely nothing to do with the coins under discussion, or your hypothesis that ancient Egyptian symbolism continued uninterrupted down to today's cultures and empires.
<< <i>...Obviously this structure did appear on coinage... >>
I'm not aware of any coins, ancient or modern, that depict the temple of Hatshepsut.
The obelisk, however, is a cultural symbol that has been deliberately and premeditatedly taken directly from the Egyptians, passed down through the Romans, and reused in modern times.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
<< <i>Most western civilization passed through Greece. Greeks were in Egypt long before Alexander. If you were a Greek and saw the pyramids you would be impressed. >>
Granted. But Greece was a johnny come lately by Egyptian standards.
Greece was the "center of the world between, what?, about 1200 BC and 400 BC.
There were no giant pyramids built after about 2300 BC and possibly a few hundred years ealier. All the later ones are quite small and quite flimsy in comparison.
1724a. To say: Thou who livest art living, father, in this thy name of "With the gods";
1724b. thou shalt dawn as Wepwawet, a soul at the head of the living,
1724c. that mighty one at the head of the spirits.
1725a. The king N. is a ḥd-wr, who is at your head, spirits;
1725b. the king N. is the great mighty-one, who is at your head, spirits;
1725c. the king N. is a Thot among you, gods.
1726a. The bolt is drawn for thee,
1726b. (the bolt) to the two ram-portals, which hold people back.
1726c. Thou countest enemies; thou takest the hand of the imperishable stars.
1727a. Thine eyes are open; thine ears are open;
1727b. enter into the house of the guardian; let thy father Geb guard thee.
1728a. The water-holes are united for thee; the lakes are brought together for thee,
1728b. for Horus who will avenge his father, for king N. who will avenge his body.
1729a. A vulture greater than thou (does) triple homage to thee.
1729b. It is agreeable to thy nose on account of the smell of the ’iḫ.t-wt.t-crown.
This one can't be taken at face value I believe, but the specific line nearly can.
Greece was the "center of the world between, what?, about 1200 BC and 400 BC.
Actually that was my point. I was gone for a couple of days and this thread is still going?
Adolf Hitler