Interest in PCGS Certified Ground Zero Coins
Johnp
Posts: 336
So as you might can see my interest is in coins found at ground zero and evertyhing about these coins. For me its a historical coin that for me means a lot and I would like to know everything I can about it. If there are anybody here that has the same interest as me please let me know I would love to talk about these coins. If anybody knows anything about these coins I would love to know that as well.
Thanks
John
Thanks
John
0
Comments
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Although I think that the biggest think that put me off on them was how soon they hit the market after the event. Just a bit too oportunistic for me, how they did it, left a bad taste.
It would depress me every time I would look atsuch
a coin.
Camelot
"The Toronto-based Bank of Nova Scotia has said its vault under 4 World Trade Center alone held more than $200 million in gold and silver."
John
The threads from that day and weeks after were amazing.
I will NEVER have a Jessica Lynch SAE.
If you don't learn from history, you will never understand your future.
Johnp
I have seen a number of people write very opinionated and passionate threads/responses on this forum regarding these coins. Most forum members who have expressed their opinions have been very negative towards this coin lot citing the opportunism of a few to make a quick profit regarding this tragedy.
The coins that are well respected here and the most highly coveted are the New York State Quarters that were numbered to 100 and encapsulated by PCGS. They were auctioned off and all the proceeds were donated to the firefighters. These pretty much come up for sale…never and usually when sold they are auctioned by the seller and the winnings are sent to the NYC Firefighters charity. THESE ARE THE COINS THAT RECEIVE THE MOST RESPECT ON THIS FORUM!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
Here is the coin you are talking about and yes I totally agree with you that this coin is great.
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>So as you might can see my interest is in coins found at ground zero and evertyhing about these coins. For me its a historical coin that for me means a lot and I would like to know everything I can about it. If there are anybody here that has the same interest as me please let me know I would love to talk about these coins. If anybody knows anything about these coins I would love to know that as well.
Thanks
John >>
Just curious, what is there to talk about?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The Collectors Universe U.S. Coin Forum's WTC 9/11 Firefighters Charity (100) coin slabs, in my eyes and perhaps the eyes of others, have absolutely nothing in common with the PCGS certified/slabbed Ground Zero 9/11 "death coins", even though there are some similarities in the PCGS presentation.
I would not want my very special 9/11 Firefighters Charity coin related in any way to the made-for-profit "death coins", and would not ever consider giving or selling my coin to anyone who doesn't very clearly express an understanding of the differences between the two.
IMO, any serious attempt to "educate" anyone on the history of this matter should be quite sure to include all the information available that makes the distinction between the "charitable effort" and the "for-profit effort" crystal clear.
1. Some money men (3 people I think) get the coins out of the vault and PCGS certifies the coins, but there is nobody that will tell us what the population of these coins are, well somebody has to know right ? I would say there a big chance these 3 people that made the first deal will know the numbers. Second PCGS knows the numbers (bar code on coins) on MS coins that I know of. Some of the Gem Uncirculated do not have bar code on them. Still a company like PCGS a great company will have the numbers on these coins but its not available.
My best estimate of total numbers of coins recovered is 10,000 to 15,000 coins ( 5,000 coins of the 10 Pesos from Uruguay is confirmed) I bet nobody knew about that. What where they doing there? How can it be worth the money to certify 5000 of the same coin?
My only purpose with the website is to know about the history of the coins and document it for people later wanting to know. I am not sell anything or telling people to buy these coin. I know me talking about the coins might get the people selling the coins a better market but I need the information for the website.
Side note: I agree that the money people in the start of these coins life are bad people and where only in it for the money I think we all agree about that, sometimes however bad people with bad intentions create history. From there on when coins change hands there is always a profit made on any coin that is just how it is.
I have many other questions about these coins that I want to know but let start with this.
Thanks for your information
The story surrounding the circumstances and actions concerning the board's charitable drive can be easily researched using the board's "search" feature, but the emotions involved in this board's most gracious efforts (the best part of the story) would be very difficult, at least for me, to put into story form.
<< <i>Not all 9/11 coins are the same.
The Collectors Universe U.S. Coin Forum's WTC 9/11 Firefighters Charity (100) coin slabs, in my eyes and perhaps the eyes of others, have absolutely nothing in common with the PCGS certified/slabbed Ground Zero 9/11 "death coins", even though there are some similarities in the PCGS presentation.
I would not want my very special 9/11 Firefighters Charity coin related in any way to the made-for-profit "death coins", and would not ever consider giving or selling my coin to anyone who doesn't very clearly express an understanding of the differences between the two.
IMO, any serious attempt to "educate" anyone on the history of this matter should be quite sure to include all the information available that makes the distinction between the "charitable effort" and the "for-profit effort" crystal clear. >>
I'm not sure if you are referring to my post or not but in case you are I will try to clarify:
1 - These coins, the two different lots, were slabbed by PCGS for two completely different purposes. The PCGS Firefighter quarters for charity and the 9/11 recovery hoard for profit. I believe I explained that in my first post but just in case it was not understood
2 - Categorically, they may be completely different in their purpose but sadly the event they were derived from will always link them together if by nothing else, at least from a cataloging standpoint. JMHO
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>The coins that are well respected here and the most highly coveted are the New York State Quarters that were numbered to 100 and encapsulated by PCGS. They were auctioned off and all the proceeds were donated to the firefighters. These pretty much come up for sale…never and usually when sold they are auctioned by the seller and the winnings are sent to the NYC Firefighters charity. THESE ARE THE COINS THAT RECEIVE THE MOST RESPECT ON THIS FORUM! >>
http://www.wtc911coins.com/topics/ny-firefighters-coin/
1) Is everybody that knows about these coins ok with this time line of events ?
2) I want to put the WTC 911 Firefighter coin in the time line but I don't know where please help on this so I can update it.
WTC Coin Time Line
1 November 2001 the works at The World Trade Center reaches the Iron Mountain Vault
1 November - 1 December 2001 Coins are sent to Collectors Universe for certification. Collectors Universe does not grade coins and so the coins are only listed as "Gem Uncirculated" and the coin and series numbers are not on the label. At first these coins are sold by dealers that are advertising that a portion of the sale price would go to the relief funds for the families. Several different types and dates of coins appeared in these holders.
1 December 2001 PCGS gets into the picture and start grading coins from ground zero, but at first only gold and silver coins from 2001 are graded. The grade coins being slab by PCGS has both barcode and serial number on the back and many has series number on them (1 of ???) . The barcode is hidden behind the hologram. At first this series only consisted of MS-69 2001 gold and silver 1 oz eagles.
January 2002-June 2002 PCGS start grading all kinds of dates, types, grades, and special "limited editions" coins from many different countries. The PCGS version came out about 4 months after the attack and all the varieties and limited editions more than a year after the attack.
January 2004 WTC coins start getting included in PCGS registry sets at first PCGS has a hard time finding the coins in their database but at the end they do and people are registering the WTC coins in their sets.
January 2002 - Present On going talks about these coins if they are "death coins" or a part of history is going on as the coins increases in value compared to other PCGS graded coins from the same year.
Why are WTC coins different than other types of memorabilia? Slave artifacts are big business especially among those who have had relatives that were slaves. WWI and WWII items are big business. I guess when it comes down to it, I collect coins because I enjoy them and the HISTORY is something I enjoy most about collecting.
Text
<< <i>Just to let you know I do not deal in the WTC coins I collect them and I made the website so other people with the same interest as me could find information about the WTC Coins.
If you don't learn from history, you will never understand your future.
Johnp >>
No, no history. They are ordinary coins that HAPPENED to be in some vault near the twin towers. There is nothing special about them. They were an attempt to cash in on a tragic happening. Collecting them is akin to collecting gold teeth.
Jonathan
I will agree to disagree with you on that one. But that is fine just want the information on these " Non Historic" coins.
Also I think we do agree that the 100 coins that was made as a charity to the NYPD Firefighters are historic I also need information for my time line on those.
Thanks
John P
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thank you very much for that information, that is the stuff I am looking for original history of what happent. I will look up the back issues of the Numismatist for the article.
Mark Rush.
The Numismatist
Vol.116, no. 4, Apr 2003, p.55-56 : ill.
Rush, Mark.
Title:
The "9-11 Quarter" : a tribute / Mark Rush.
Note:
Includes bibliographical references (p.56)
Subject Info:
September 11 Terrorist Attacks, 2001.United States Commemorative coins.United States Quarter Dollar.
Host Publication:
In: The Numismatist Vol.116, no. 4, Apr 2003, p.55-56 : ill.
http://data.numismatics.org/cgi-bin/showlib?accnum=20070316160134.9.37.0499339810237
I can find that page but not the article
11 September 2001 The New York State Quarter 9-11 Firefighters coins are made with the special flag insert by the good people at the Collectors Universe Forum and are send to PCGS for grading. 100% of the proceeds goes to the Uniformed Firefighters Association (UFA) Widows’ and Children’s Fund The auction of the 100 coins ( numbered 1 thought 100) brings in over $42,000. 9-11 quarter full story
Freedom Tower coins
As a collector of ocean liner and airship memorabilia, I can say that there is a huge market for artifacts from the most famous of ships and Zeppelins. Unfortunately, the reason why many of them are famous is because they met with tragic ends that caused great loss of life. The main ship I collect is the Lusitania, which was sunk by a German U-Boat in 1915 with a great human loss. I would collect Titanic, but since the moivie came out, anything connected to that ship is way more than I can afford. I also collect Hindenburg memorabilia, and we all know what happened to it.
To me, there is a difference between buying a Menu from the Lusitania or a piece of mail from the Hindenburg, and buying a pair of eyeglasses or piece of jewelry recovered from their wrecks. The menu and mail are associated with the ship and the company that owned it; personal effects belonged to individual people who may have lost their lives in the tragedy. The menu and mail are considered perfectly OK to own from a moral standpoint by collectors. Even pieces of the Hindenburg and recovered dishes from Lusitania are considered OK to most collectors. I think the closer you get to the actual human part of a tragedy, the less appropriate items become.
The recovery coins were in a vault that belonged to a financial company, and to me owning them is no different than owning a Lusitania menu or piece of Hindenburg mail. They were there for the tragedy, but weren't directly associated with individuals, the way loose coins, a pair of eyeglasses or a piece of a fire truck from the rubble would. I disagree with the way they made it to the marketplace, but now that they are here they are collectible.
I own a recovery 2001 silver eagle. I didn't buy it until long after they were released, and got it from a seller on eBay. I also have a late 1980's brochure from the observation deck of the WTC. The front of it reads 'The closest some of us will ever get to heaven.' I have it and the coin framed. Although I wasn't there, whenever I look at them, I think about the events of that day, more deeply than I would just seeing a photo.
These are just my opinions. 9/11 was such a horrific and tragic event that each person should have their own idea of what is right or wrong when it comes to items associated with it. I'm conflicted; I would love to have a piece of Hindenburg outer fabric from the crash, but not a piece of aluminum from one of the planes involved in 9/11, and that's my choice...flame away if you like.
They are two different entities. One is Police, (NYPD) the Fire department is NYFD.
As for the coins themselves to each their own.
Steve
But the coin is no more a Ground Zero coin than First Strike is a First Strike coin.
They were not in the towers and there is nothing special or miraculous about their 'survival'.
<< <i>I don't have a problem with the coin. People can buy and sell as they please.
But the coin is no more a Ground Zero coin than First Strike is a First Strike coin.
They were not in the towers and there is nothing special or miraculous about their 'survival'. >>
the auction raised more than $40,000 for the Uniformed Firefighters Association (UFA) Widows’ and Children’s Fund.
and
NICE JOB on the Webpage
snman
The first part of the article by Mark Rush is up on the site, big thanks to forum member "RegistryCoin" for faxing me a copy. I have made a promise to make a big difference on the site betwen the "9-11 quarter" and the coins found "near" the world trade center known as Ground zero coins. I will keep this promise and thanks for all the help I have received from many people here on this forum. It is great to find a place like this with so much information and people willing to help.
http://www.wtc911coins.com/the-9-11-quarter-a-tribute/
Dave
He has never attempted to take me up on my long - standing offer.
Think maybe he'd be more interested in some Papa Johns Pita?
I know there are commem's that commemorate battle and war.
The WTC is just to new, or the manner in which the people died.
Besides I knew someone that worked for Allstate in the South Tower.
He was never found, very painfull.
I knew it would happen.
That is fine with me, personally I am very interested in the history of these coins and I promise you one thing no matter how many people don't like them they are not going to go away.
Its like everything else in this world, it would be a boring place if we all had the same opinion about everything.
To all the people that don't like the WTC coins I want you to think about this for a second.
History, despite its wrenching pain to us, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.
John P