In my short time collecting coins, this is the only advice I have to someone starting out:

Hyperion

No matter HOW MUCH you are tempted avoid widget unless you really really really like them, cause in time, they'll be impossible to get rid of without taking a loss of some sort.
Avoid problem coins at all costs, unless you have zero alternatives.

....someone had a quote on these boards which is appropriate.

A collector is someone who buys retail, sells at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways.

EOM.

RYK

Often, the coins that are the easiest to buy are the ones that are the hardest to sell.

Hyperion

<< <i>Often, the coins that are the easiest to buy are the ones that are the hardest to sell. >>



well said

DeusExMachina

<< <i>Often, the coins that are the easiest to buy are the ones that are the hardest to sell. >>



Well said, Robert.

jfoot13

<< <i>Often, the coins that are the easiest to buy are the ones that are the hardest to sell. >>



only if you're expecting a profit.......

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>Often, the coins that are the easiest to buy are the ones that are the hardest to sell. >>



only if you're expecting a profit....... >>



Who said anything a profit? I am talking about just getting out of them.

19Lyds

Every coin purchase has the potential for producing a loss.

My advice to those starting out in collecting is to simply enjoy what you are doing and try not to get caught up in any kind of a set competition until you can get past the numbers and feel good about what you've done.

Coin collecting is not so much about what you have as it is about what you know and will learn.

clarkbar04

I'm somewhat of a widget bargain hunter. 99.9% morgans, to be exact. 80% of them have been turned for profit and 15% or so sold on this board for what I had into them, or a little more.

I realize this may be an exception to the rule!

However, I'm not so sure the best thing for a new collector to buy are non-widgets...

InfiniteZero

***This post is my opinion and by no means encompasses everyone.*****

I am a 'collector' by my definition. I buy a coin because I like it, do not intend on selling it, and because I can afford it. I try to complete sets and can envision a day when I am sharing my interest in coins and history to my grandchildren and probably passing on my collection to them.

From reading a lot of posts on this board, the word 'collector' here tends to be more like a stock trader. You buy a coin because you think you have a good shot at flipping it for profit. A collection of coins is seen more like holdings in a portfolio, ready to be sold at a moments whim for the right price...

And I am not sure why 'widget' coins are considered bad... Are they not coins..? Isn't that what coin collectors collect...? I am very confused by this. It is fine for a dealer to think this way because coins are a business first venture. But to a 'Collector'..? To me it feels like snobbery..

And I also feel like this hobby has become more about plastic and MS #s than actual coins, but that's a different rant...

MajorDuty

Good post, Zero. Similarly I too have been surprised how quickly people dump a set once completed in order to move on to a new set. I understand building the set is the most fun for some, and I understand the need to generate funds too, but for me a collector if I complete a set I want to hold onto it tightly and never sell the set. It took a lot of time to complete said set and I'm fond of those sets. I'll move onto a new set, or new coins, but almost always keep prior collections.

Coxe

Auctions tax you both ways. If you use them, don't expect to make a lot of money on your coins unless you wait a long time and are exceedingly lucky in your choices.

Another thing I learned is that a huge, well-planned collection of carefully selected pieces can still be a bear to eventually sell. This is especially true if your target buyers are in a niche with a thin aggregate budget at any given time. The market just cannot absorb them all at their deserved premiums at once or even over a short period of time.

saintguru

BUY GREAT COINS.

WAIT.

GET GREAT SATISFACTION FROM LOOKING AT THEM AND KNOWING THAT YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THEM.

WAIT SOME MORE.

WIFE SELLS IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU DIA AND REAPS HUGE GAINS, WHILE MOCKING THE "PASSION" ASPECT YOU TALKED ABOUT.

SPENDS YOUR $$ ON YOUNG BOYFRIEND LIKE IT'S ON FIRE.

TavernTreasures

Good observations, but I will have a hard time following the advice supplied.

kranky

I know your reference to "widgets" doesn't mean junk, but your insightful comment reminded me of something I heard at a coin show years ago. "Junk today will still be junk 100 years from now." Like widgets, junk is very easy to buy (in any quantity imaginable) but not so easy to sell.

I have been thinking about the case for problem coins, though. I won't be surprised if there is a time when coins that get bodybagged for certain reasons may enjoy a resurgence in popularity because of the growing price difference between coins with problems and those without. If PCGS and NGC start slabbing problem coins as ungraded but "genuine", which is appropriate IMHO, I think it will make a difference.

keets

widget-smidget!!!!!

just read kranky's byline and you'll be OK. a widget is only a bad widget if you're stupid and overpay or somehow manage to get in too deep. absent any overheadedness every coin is a good coin. just besmart about what you're doing and everything will be OK.

mrearlygold

Buy Great Coins. Own something exquisite enough so that when other people who are in the know see it, they ask "wanna sell it"?

percyb

But the Keys! (easier said than done).

Coxe

Also buy the best you can afford. In fact, exceed your budget to get that special coin that has the right eye appeal. So many collectors a few years into serious buying wish they had stretched a little more earlier on. Of course, this is all predicated on doing a lot of due dilligence before getting in with both feet. Always know the coins you are buying well and their markets. Suspect problems with each coin until you have completely dismissed problems. Like with stocks, there is a seller for every buyer and the more informed and less desperate of the two is likely getting the better side of the deal. Buying the book first, being as informed as possible, and continually reevaluating your knowledge cannot be overstated in importance.

In a bear market buy selective examples of semikeys at little or no special premiums. There isn't a better opportunity period in numismatics. I don't say keys because the better examples of them are then in strong hands that are unwilling to sell. When prices have risen and the keys appear, that is the second big opportunity. People are saying the prices have gotten too high after the complacency of a bottom plateau for a while. The sellers think they are the opportunists in a short term growth spurt that might not hold up. A lot of your competetion also backs off from buying. Seize those coins if they are accurately graded. The nice thing is that in those times, the price guides are woefuly lagging too. The downside is that after an absence of keys on the market, there is some hunger. My observation still is that those early worms end up being market bargains even when competed. Just look at prices around '95 and '96, before the Eliasberg sales. As for the common dates, for those completing date sets, or common tyoes, for the type sets, get the high eye appeal and apparently undergraded ones as they are available in any market, but especially in a bear market, but never at the budgetary expense of neglecting a key or semikey opportunity. I completed a Morgan prooflike set except for three dates and many having several different varieties represented over a couple decades ..... but I didn't buy a single 1881-S until July 2006. Why? Why should I? They are as common as water in any collectible grade.

Silverstate

If you buy modern, beware of fast moving pops.

And BEWARE of the more is better crowd.

RedTiger

As always:

Collect what you like, not what someone else likes. If you don't know, sample some inexpensive stuff and some will stick.

Learn how to grade, if collecting coins where the grade makes a difference in price (almost all of them).

Learn the market pricing, both retail and wholesale for the coins you are interested in. Also learn market availability, some high priced coins are readily available, some may come on the market once every ten years.

Develop contacts with dealers and other collectors to get access to better coins, and better prices when buying or selling

Enjoy the hobby.

vplite

<< <i>If you buy modern, beware of fast moving pops.

And BEWARE of the more is better crowd.
>>



You don't have anything specific in mind do you?

GritsMan

This all seems like sound advice, except I think any post like this ought to clearly define "widget". It seems to mean a lot of different things to different people. How about a definition?

Coxe

I see a widget as a coin that is always available in quantities beyond demand. These are coins that were saved and are circulating in the hobby in unjustified numbers. 1938-D Buffalo nickels are widgets. I feel 1931-S Lincoln cents in UNC are widgets too, though that probably crosses some folks' lines, particularly people who sell them. 1887 VAM-12 gator eyes are widgets is practically any grade.

lcoopie

learn then buy

not

buy then learn

19Lyds

<< <i>***This post is my opinion and by no means encompasses everyone.*****

I am a 'collector' by my definition. I buy a coin because I like it, do not intend on selling it, and because I can afford it. I try to complete sets and can envision a day when I am sharing my interest in coins and history to my grandchildren and probably passing on my collection to them.

From reading a lot of posts on this board, the word 'collector' here tends to be more like a stock trader. You buy a coin because you think you have a good shot at flipping it for profit. A collection of coins is seen more like holdings in a portfolio, ready to be sold at a moments whim for the right price...

And I am not sure why 'widget' coins are considered bad... Are they not coins..? Isn't that what coin collectors collect...? I am very confused by this. It is fine for a dealer to think this way because coins are a business first venture. But to a 'Collector'..? To me it feels like snobbery..

And I also feel like this hobby has become more about plastic and MS #s than actual coins, but that's a different rant... >>



All my grade and slabbed coins, whether in a set collection or not, have the potential for being sold. Some I will take not just a bath on but a perfumy bubble bath!

My DANSCO collections are totally different though. I have Lincolns, Jeffersons, Franklins, Kennedy's SAE's and a whole slug of raw 2x2's made up of everything from Large Cents to gold eagles. There is no way I could ever sell these as some of them represent my collecting habits.

As for the turn a profit and flipping stuff, I take every advantage I can with the sole intent of raising money to support my collecting habits. Sometimes the two cross paths but I still consider myself a "collector" that deals coins (on a very small scale) to pay for the collecting of coins.

A lot of the confusing posts that occur on these forums are by folks in the same exact situation as me. The collecting bug has expensive taste's which can be offset by flipping a coin here or there. Additionally, if one were to upgrade a coin, one would want to achieve as high a possible return to offset the cost of the upgrade.

Often times the wise collector will dabble in dealing even though he or she may not be a real dealer, just to offset the costs of his or her collection.

I fully understand your post and just thought I'd throw my opinions into the ring.

sumnom

<< <i>***This post is my opinion and by no means encompasses everyone.*****

I am a 'collector' by my definition. I buy a coin because I like it, do not intend on selling it, and because I can afford it. I try to complete sets and can envision a day when I am sharing my interest in coins and history to my grandchildren and probably passing on my collection to them.

From reading a lot of posts on this board, the word 'collector' here tends to be more like a stock trader. You buy a coin because you think you have a good shot at flipping it for profit. A collection of coins is seen more like holdings in a portfolio, ready to be sold at a moments whim for the right price...

And I am not sure why 'widget' coins are considered bad... Are they not coins..? Isn't that what coin collectors collect...? I am very confused by this. It is fine for a dealer to think this way because coins are a business first venture. But to a 'Collector'..? To me it feels like snobbery..

And I also feel like this hobby has become more about plastic and MS #s than actual coins, but that's a different rant... >>



Excellent post. I do not collect to make a profit. When I pay for a coin, I am not only getting the coin, I am getting the experience of owning it, learning about it, appreciating it. This too is worth something. Never in all the years that I have collected have I ever expected to turn a profit. I collect coins because I like to collect coins. Collecting is the goal in and of itself.

I don't see anything wrong with being a collector, being a dealer, or being both. As a collector I depend on dealers. It would be very hard to collect without them but I have little to no interest in dealing in coins myself. For that reason, many of the threads here don't interest me that much as this forum seems to mostly be a dealer's forum rather than a collector's forum. That's fine too. I learn a lot from both dealers and collectors here.

My advice would be to collect what you like and can afford and enjoy yourself. I don't see why it has to be any more complicated than that. Of course, if you are dealer, it is very much more complicated than that. For collectors, however, it's really quite simple.

sumnom

<< <i>I see a widget as a coin that is always available in quantities beyond demand. These are coins that were saved and are circulating in the hobby in unjustified numbers. 1938-D Buffalo nickels are widgets. I feel 1931-S Lincoln cents in UNC are widgets too, though that probably crosses some folks' lines, particularly people who sell them. 1887 VAM-12 gator eyes are widgets is practically any grade. >>



I have a 38-D buffalo that I rather like. Questions of supply and demand, availability do not really factor into my interest in the coin. They may affect my ability to obtain a coin but in the case of a coin like my 38-D buffalo, I just like it because I like coins, and buffalo nickels in particular. Is there some reason I should not have an interest in it? I know you are not making that argument but from the standpoint of a collector, why should these issue matter at all?

mr1931S

"Widget" never has been adequately defined and probably never will be. A person with little coin collecting experience shouldn't be trying to buy "non-widgets" no matter what he or she thinks they are. There are too many cons and hustlers out there who have the potential to ruin the hobby forever for the beginning collector. So,rather than being all that concerned about collecting widgets,be more concerned about who you deal with is my advice to someone starting out.

The reward for me is in the journey and not the destination.That's not to say goals have no place in this hobby but from time-to-time one should stop along the way and "smell" the roses.Your roses might well be someone elses "widgets" but don't concern yourself with someone elses approval of your collection.And never,ever disparage another's collection,no matter how humble you might see that collection.

For the record,I'm not advocating actually sniffing one's coins and avoiding problem coins is definitely good advice.

RYK

<< <i>This all seems like sound advice, except I think any post like this ought to clearly define "widget". It seems to mean a lot of different things to different people. How about a definition? >>



I think that debating the term "widget" distracts from some of the true beneficial lessons of collecting.

FWIW, there are countless threads on the topics of widgets, in reference to coins, and the best definition that I can come up with is one that is easily replaced.

Coxe

<< <i>

<< <i>I see a widget as a coin that is always available in quantities beyond demand. These are coins that were saved and are circulating in the hobby in unjustified numbers. 1938-D Buffalo nickels are widgets. I feel 1931-S Lincoln cents in UNC are widgets too, though that probably crosses some folks' lines, particularly people who sell them. 1887 VAM-12 gator eyes are widgets is practically any grade. >>



I have a 38-D buffalo that I rather like. Questions of supply and demand, availability do not really factor into my interest in the coin. They may affect my ability to obtain a coin but in the case of a coin like my 38-D buffalo, I just like it because I like coins, and buffalo nickels in particular. Is there some reason I should not have an interest in it? I know you are not making that argument but from the standpoint of a collector, why should these issue matter at all? >>



No issues whatsoever with collecting them. Still widgets anyway. I have plenty of widgets myself. The issue matters mostly for the collector in specimen selection and discretionary budget allocation. Widgets are generally to be passed over when opportunities to fill rare holes present themselves. They also are the coins that you can have the pleasure of examining hundreds before buying the one that you like and fits your set just right. In my Top-100 VAM set, I don't have the 1891-CC spitting eagle. The coin is a classic widget. I could fill my pockets with them on most bourses lickety split. But I'll wait for one that stands out as exceptional.

ricko

Using disparaging terms to belittle another collectors interests, is simply an elitist method of feeling superior. In fact, it makes those elitists smaller in both mind and presence. If you must validate yourself at the expense of others, you are small minded. I have no respect for such people..and there are a few here. They are really very lonely individuals. Cheers, RickO

Meltdown

I started out as buying bullion silver as an investment and quickly became a collector with a fever. I tend to collect "widgets" that have some eye appeal, whether it's nice color or white, sparkling luster. I'm on a fairly smalltime budget with a long term investment mindset. When I overpay just a little because I really like the coin, I tell myself that the value will catch up at some point. I guess bottomline, I enjoy my collection here and now and will worry about their value and sale-ability sometime down the road.

sumnom

Widgets are generally to be passed over when opportunities to fill rare holes present themselves. They also are the coins that you can have the pleasure of examining hundreds before buying the one that you like and fits your set just right.

Well yes, all things being equal, I would indeed buy the coin that doesn't come around that often rather than the common piece but I wouldn't avoid a common coin because it is common or has a low -or no- resale value. Resale doesn't enter into my purchase decisions.

InfiniteZero

<< <i>Using disparaging terms to belittle another collectors interests, is simply an elitist method of feeling superior. In fact, it makes those elitists smaller in both mind and presence. If you must validate yourself at the expense of others, you are small minded. I have no respect for such people..and there are a few here. They are really very lonely individuals. Cheers, RickO >>




I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way... My main area of interest is ancient roman coins. I purchase 'good' uncleaned bronze and silver coins and bring them back to there former glory. The history of those coins and the time and effort to restore them is as much fun to me as getting the final product. Most of my purchases are made online. When I do find a dealer at a show that carries ancients, I always ask if they have uncleaneds for sale. Most of the time the answer is the same.

"Oh, I don't bother with that junk, I only deal in cleaned silver and gold coins."

And I think to myself, junk... Really... I know is there a lot of junk out there, but there is so much good stuff too.

I have had a lot of experience with dealers like that, U.S. coins too. It seems that since I am not in the market to spend a couple of grand per coin, I am not worth there time. That's why when I read about building a relationship w/ dealers, I just think blah, good thing we have the internet....

gus

sumnom

I do think it is nice to have a good relationship with a dealer. There is a guy I know locally who knows what I like and what I can afford and has never been anything but great, even though I can't afford big ticket items. I have seen him the same way with other customers as well. It's that kind of treatment that keeps me coming back year after year. I never come out of that place feeling not I wasn't worth someone's time.

Coxe

<< <i>

<< <i>This all seems like sound advice, except I think any post like this ought to clearly define "widget". It seems to mean a lot of different things to different people. How about a definition? >>



I think that debating the term "widget" distracts from some of the true beneficial lessons of collecting.

FWIW, there are countless threads on the topics of widgets, in reference to coins, and the best definition that I can come up with is one that is easily replaced. >>



That is about as compact a definition as one could come up with,

I don't know why some people automatically think labeling a widget for what it is has to be disparaging. Read things in context. Widgets are not problems coins, but common coins. Certain dealers and investors might avoid them and that's just fine too. Doesn't fit their business/accumulation models.

mr1931S

I don't know why some people automatically think labeling a widget for what it is has to be disparaging.

I think the word is typically used with the intent to offend. Why not just call common coins "common?"

sumnom

I understand the original meaning of "widget" to be, "an unnamed or hypothetical manufactured article." The nuance that I have always picked up from the word is that the item itself is not sufficiently important as to warrant actually naming it. When used to mean a common coin in numismatic parlance, it sounds to me like the speaker means the coin in question is of no real interest or importance because it is commonly available. Indeed, why not call common coins "common coins?"

I can understand why investors and dealers may not be interested in common coins but numismatists are likely to be interested whether they are common or not.