Does anyone remember......
Raybo
Posts: 5,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
when the top grade was MS65?
I might be showing my age in this post but in the "olden days" no one gave out a higher grade than 65, not the dealers or any of the TPG services at the time (i'm talking mid to late 70's).
There might have been a few exceptions but I don't recall any coin graded above 65, and IMHO ain't no 70 coin in exsistance.
What say you?
Ray
I might be showing my age in this post but in the "olden days" no one gave out a higher grade than 65, not the dealers or any of the TPG services at the time (i'm talking mid to late 70's).
There might have been a few exceptions but I don't recall any coin graded above 65, and IMHO ain't no 70 coin in exsistance.
What say you?
Ray
0
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Unc
BU
Gem BU
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
<< <i>I remember when the top grade was "Unc." ! >>
Uncle was a grade?
Just kidding, maybe my memory is not quite what it was (DUH!) but 70 point system was in place at that time.............Right?
Thanks again,
Ray
BU
CHBU
GEMBU
Later was the CHBU+ (or a 64)
GemBU+ (a 66)
Superb GemBU (a 67)
<< <i>Yup.
BU
CHBU
GEMBU
Later was the CHBU+ (or a 64)
GemBU+ (a 66)
Superb GemBU (a 67) >>
Ah...every time I see "Superb Gem BU" I think 40's Washington Quarters.
Uncle was a grade?
Just kidding, maybe my memory is not quite what it was (DUH!) but 70 point system was in place at that time.............Right?
Thanks again,
Ray
True, it may have existed. But pull out a Redbook from 1976 or earlier, and quote me the price for any coin in MS65 condition.
I remember the three divisions of Unc (60,63,65) and the time "before" (slabs)
<< <i>I remember the three divisions of Unc (60,63,65) and the time "before" (slabs) >>
This is the way I remember it, correct me if i'm wrong and thanks 500Bay.
Ray
<< <i>The numeric definitions have changed mightily more than once in the last thirty or more years. There was a time in the late 1970s where MS60, MS65 and MS70 were the three MS grades in common use. >>
Not in my narrow mind Tom.
Ray
<< <i>The numeric definitions have changed mightily more than once in the last thirty or more years. There was a time in the late 1970s where MS60, MS65 and MS70 were the three MS grades in common use. >>
There were 3 uncirculated grades in the ANA grading standards book at that time(60,65,70). Even though MS70 grade was in book, it was thought of as sort of a utopia and unattainable. To my memory-the 2 grades used were MS60 and MS65. As time went by dealers and collectors began to use MS63. It got adopted. Those days the MS65 grade was thought of as the top grade.
Brilliant Uncirculated (MS 60-64)
Brilliant Uncirculated, Gem (MS 65)
Brilliant Uncirculated, Gem Superb (MS 67)
I am in full agreement with the concept of no coin being able to attain a grade of MS 70, either then or now. Gem Superb was a term used at the time to differentiate a Gem coin, or a 65, from a coin that was clearly superior to most Gem pieces, what we would today call a 67.
John
Edited to add, the term Gem Superb was used VERY infrequently, as there were few coins deemed to warrant such a classification. Even fewer dealers who were dealing strictly Gem coins and who were competent enough to even make that determination. Both terms became over used, and there were many "slider" Gems sold at this time which were later correctly classified as AU coins because they had rub and were not truly unc. (Even though that was still the case even with slabbed coins with rub being certified in the MS grades)
since the mid-late 80's the hobby of Numismatics has seen some very drastic and tradition altering changes, perhaps the two biggest being the advent of the Grading Service Concept and the Internet, with the end result being the dissemination of knowledge. prior to these things happening, very few individual collectors really saw the choice coins or even knew they existed, very few collectors had the knowledge to build top collections and even less attended the major auctions/sales/conventions that we take for granted today.
now that has all changed and the Hobby is very "wide open" for anyone to participate at any level. prices have exploded as the best coins that we never even knew existed are offered almost as a matter of routine. the select few in the hobby knew these coins were their but they weren't real keen on sharing that knowledge with the peasants. the grading services have progressively ranked coins for us. a natural outgrowth of that has been the better coins being looked at. while the pool of known survivors for a certain issue expands it's only logical that the best coin is ranked higher.
an example might be your MS65 highest grade coin from, say, 1988. what would the grading services be expected to do when a coin comes along that is clearly better?? should they "hold the line at 65" so they don't upset us?? should they contact the owner of that MS65 if they can find him and tell him that they need to downgrade his example to MS64 so they can make room for the new top-dog?? should they undergrade the coin at MS64 instead of MS67??
well, you might see my point by now and realize that the tendency towards conspiracy thinking and grade-flation is a bit paranoid in its scope. some things happen for logical reasons, at least in my world.
well, you might see my point by now and realize that the tendency towards conspiracy thinking and grade-flation is a bit paranoid in its scope. some things happen for logical reasons, at least in my world. >>
Logic doesn't apply in the world of numismatics...
spot on ricko!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
unfortunately, many old school collectors/dealers are stuck on Unc/Choice/Gem or whatever the three descriptors use to be. that "scale" was certainly simpler to use but not very useful, if that makes sense. grades from Poor through About Uncirculated are easily defined because of wear but when it comes to Mint State where the assumption of no wear is in place there needs to be other qualifiers and a wider breakdown than simply saying Uncirculated, Choice Uncirculated or Gem Brilliant Uncirculated. from my perspective, the old school form of grading was a scam foisted upon the hobby which worked to the advantage of dealers in the extreme and for Mint State grades it just took a while longer for it to be replaced by a more useful and fair-minded scale, just as the circulated grades evolved over time. that's part of the reason why i see the use of the 100 point scale or some system of cumputer assistance as alluded to by Ricko as a given, the hobby as a whole just isn't ready for it yet.
as Clint Eastwood said in HeartBreak Ridge----We improvise, we adapt, we overcome. the old school has done that for the most part but there are always hold-outs!!