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Cool find in Jefferson Bison mint roll - PIC ADDED

OK, so I recently rediscovered my Jefferson Westward Journey mint rolls that I stashed away and forgot about. Since I have so many of the Bison rolls I decided to open a set that wasn't sealed in the original box. The end roll toning was a very nice golden color so I was curious if it went down into the roll or was just on the end coins and I also was thinking I could find a speared or detached leg somewhere. I'm still not sure of the detached leg, several appear to possibly be such variety, but maybe not, I'll have to research that variety a bit more. No speared coins but when I opened the P roll I was immediately greeted with a beautiful clipped bison, approx. 15% clipped at the bison's head. I guess we'll name it the Decapitated Bison variety, do you think I could get PCGS to designate it as such on the label?? image The toning also made it through beautifully on both rolls. Every single coin has deep golden edge toning with some coins having a very nice hint of blue forming along with the gold. Anyway, I thought I would just share the fact that these appear to be toning quite nicely in the original mint rolls, I can't wait to see these in another few years. And who knows what you can find. I think I'm going to crack open a few more sets soon.

Comments

  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    got any pictures? Do you know the production date on the box?
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭
    No idea of the numbers for this, these were already out of the sealed box (no box). I will get around to getting a pic.

    I'm wonderning if anyone else has any extra rolls around that they might want to peek into and see if they are toning, also. Since they're a dime a dozen on ebay, I don't see ruining any investment value if they're cracked open, eh?
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am starting to go through some US Mint rolls, Bison and Keelboat nickels. I notice that only the end coins on the roll have any toning, just a hint of gold. The other side of each of the end roll coins and the remainder of the coins in the roll are tone free.

    I have a bunch of rolls of bison nickels that I am now starting to open, search, and then take to the bank. 5 sets down (includes 1 keelboat set), and not a single coin of interest. I'll post any finds when I am done with all of them.
  • I kept an Ocean in View nickel because it has a really nice golden tone to the whole coin.

    Too bad it isn't in better condition....
    Some call it an accumulation not a collection
  • Great find! Can't wait to see the pics.
  • FullStepJeffsFullStepJeffs Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    I've got 50 sets of these I'm going to leave in the original sealed box until 2050 when they may bring a premium. image

    Nice going on the clip! Can't wait to see pictures.

    Steve
    U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired

    In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    Some day I'll find the time to go through the few rolls I have. Mine are bank rolls though, could not see paying the premium for the same thing from the mint.
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Here's a pic of the Bison clip. The gold rim toning doesn't show up well in this pic, but in hand it has a very pleasing light golden edge. I'm going to open another set tonight, hopefully they will yield a surprise or two....

    image

    BTW, as nice as the toning is on these coins, the quality is disappointing to say the least. Out of both P & D rolls, there are maybe 3 or 4 65s with most others being 60 - 64, at best. And more than a few would BB for gouges.

  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't look like an authentic clip to me.Seems very unlikely that would have ended up in a roll.
    Trade $'s
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭


    << <i>Doesn't look like an authentic clip to me.Seems very unlikely that would have ended up in a roll. >>



    Well, it was in the roll. How doesn't it look like an authentic clip?
  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Doesn't look like an authentic clip to me.Seems very unlikely that would have ended up in a roll. >>



    Well, it was in the roll. How doesn't it look like an authentic clip? >>



    Something called the Blakesley effect that doesn't appear to be present on your coin.Click this linkand read Airplanenuts 3rd post.
    Trade $'s
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,725 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that is looks to me like a post-Mint alteration.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭
    OK....well, I'm not sure what to say other than I pulled it from a mint wrapped roll. So other than the unlikely explanation that someone at the mint (or wrapper) cut it and placed it in a roll? I, for one, have no doubt that it's authentic (barring the aforementioned scenario). Maybe it's just the pic, I don't know.
  • The clip is authentic, and I would pay the PCGS fees if it came back body bagged.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,472 ✭✭✭✭
    Actually, the Blakeslee effect is created in the upsetting mill and not during the striking process as related in the Jeremy link.

    The upsetting process is where the blanks receive the rims. The blanks are rolled into smaller spaces which creates the rim. Those blanks that have clips, have smaller diameters and do not squeeze correctly which is what creates the effect exactly opposite the clip.

    However, just because the coin does show the effect does not mean it's not genuine as not all coins exhibit the blakeslee effect.

    Seanq is the expert on this so perhaps he will chime in.

    There are several threads regarding this and Coin World even had a small article regarding it.

    I'll see if I can find them.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,472 ✭✭✭✭
    I found the article on "Incomplete planchets" in the Jan 28th, 2008 issue of Coin World:

    "Remember, "clips" begin at the blanking press. The metal disk is a "clipped blank" until it enters the upsetting mill, where it is squeezed to the point of forming a raised rim.

    In the Blakeslee Effect, the partial lack of a raised rim comes about because the incomplete area of the blank presents no opposing metal to squeeze a rim upward."

    Here is a forum thread where I thought I had found a "faked" Sacajawea clip and the bottom line of the matter is that the coin needs to be examined more closely to determine if it is in fact real or not.

    At this point, I would lay the benefit of the doubt to the new poster and request that better, closer pictures be provided.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489
    fake or not that is a image looking coin. I really like the toning...image
    Thanks for sharing
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Again, without sounding annoyed, it is without question genuine. It would be quite the conspiracy if this was fake, because as I have stressed, this was pulled from a mint wrapped P & D set. I definitely didn't foresee the authenticity of this being debated. I am planning on opening another set shortly and I will look forward to more fake clips in those rolls image
  • Not my area but it looks 150% legit to me image
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here's a pic of the Bison clip. The gold rim toning doesn't show up well in this pic, but in hand it has a very pleasing light golden edge. I'm going to open another set tonight, hopefully they will yield a surprise or two....

    image

    BTW, as nice as the toning is on these coins, the quality is disappointing to say the least. Out of both P & D rolls, there are maybe 3 or 4 65s with most others being 60 - 64, at best. And more than a few would BB for gouges. >>




    It looks amazing! The detail runs right up to the edge of the clip. Place another nickel into the clip to see if it fits...........perfectly!


    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • FullStepJeffsFullStepJeffs Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    I only have one question... How much?

    Steve
    U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired

    In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am not seeing any metal flow into that clip.
    Might just be the pic.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi,

    I'm pretty sure that's genuine, and not only because of the OP's statement that it came from a Mint wrapped roll. Nickel clips show less Blakesley effect and metal flow than copper or clad coins because the metal is a little harder. It's tricky to see but if you look at the rim around K-10 you can see the rim appears to flatten slightly; that's the extent of the Blakesley effect on the coin. I'm guessing that you can see it a bit more clearly on the obverse, should the OP wish to post another picture.

    Anyway, that's a great find in a Mint sealed roll. You can check out Fred Weinberg's site and see what he sells those for, raw on eBay you could probably get about 50-75% of those prices for your coin.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭


    << <i>I only have one question... How much?

    Steve >>



    (holding pinky finger to mouth, in my best Dr. Evil impression) One Meeellllion dollars!

    I see that Fred Weinberg's site has a PCGS graded 16% clip listed for 225. From looking at that one, I guess mine is more than my guess of 15%.
  • FreeFree Posts: 149 ✭✭
    edited April 2, 2024 11:16PM

    Resurrecting this post, it's been a while....just recently dug this out again and it was poo-poo'd by a local coin shop, claiming it didn't have the Blakesley, as mentioned by others. Guess it's time to send it in.

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