Is there a way to "fix" an improperly cleaned coin?

engraved

Is there a way to take an ANACS or NCS details coin and use it as a pocket piece or artificially wear it to remove hairlines from a cleaning?

From the perspective of preserving a coin for future generations, would this be considered ethical? The coin's surfaces would be improved at the expense of some details.

…

i heard if you take the coin and put it in with a couple pounds of circulate foreign stuff, that might possibly put enough dirt on it to have it not grade details. never tried it though.

cladking

Most cleanings are easily removed long before the coin even loses half a grade.

Some extreme cases of polishing and whizzing will knock it down much more before it looks natural again.

Copper can often just be darkened by exposure to atmosphere for a few months. It works best in a warm place.

1794half1839

What is the point of doing this, especially if you paid AU money, and had to wear it down to XF details? I think that it is a losing proposition, unless you bought a cleaned AU for VF money. My advice would be to break it out of the holder, stick it in an album until it tones attractively, then send it back to ANACS or NCS to be put back in a details grade holder, but with the attractive toning would be worth more.

Griv

Throw them away. That fixes it.

cladking

<< <i>

From the perspective of preserving a coin for future generations, would this be considered ethical? The coin's surfaces would be improved at the expense of some details. >>



It's probably bad for the coin which is bad for the hobby in the long run.

However it's the hobby that has decided that a lightly cleaned AU is worth
less than a Fine in some cases. I'd blame the person who cleaned the coin
and the collectors who deem the F a better value for the same money.

You have to live in your own time if you're stuck with it. You can't save every
2008 cent in unc because someday most will be gone or degraded. Nor can
you save every cleaned AU collectible coin.

MrEureka

Is there a way to take an ANACS or NCS details coin and use it as a pocket piece or artificially wear it to remove hairlines from a cleaning?

There are far less destructive and far more effective methods. Unfortunately, they are considered "coin doctoring". Oh, my! What to do, what to do?

engraved

What prompted this question, is that I've been looking at US Philippine coins. Some of the keys are extremely rare and found cleaned as that was common practice in the past with this series. I'm wondering if there is a way to convert a cleaned AU coin into a problem free XF.

As cladking pointed out, it's the current market that prefers problem free lower grades to cleaned coins with better details. For historically rare coins, it may be in the interest of "history" to preserve the details rather than try to improve the surfaces.

adamlaneus

In my layman's opinion, all you can do is more damage. Altering the whole surface because of a few hairlines seems like the wrong way to go to me. To me, this is not an improvement. It is damage.

If that damage did not occur due to honest circulation...with 100 years plus of patina...then this has become yet one more Messed Up US Gold Coin.

This is a simplistic attitude of a newbie. I suppose this would bother me if I HAD to SLAB a CLEANED coin. But I don't. I'm apparently not at that level of collecting yet.

I like Griv's advice of simply throwing the coin away to solve the problem.

If you do not like the word 'cleaned' on the slab, break that coin out of the slab and put into an airtite.

Perhaps a more subtle approach would be to sell the coin you have and purchase another one that hasn't been screwed up yet. This would be my approach before I would mess with a coin. Probably impossible to do with true rarities. I would have even more of a problem messing with a truly rare coin.

Apparently, i'm not the market though. I bet that the market was less critical about this issue 40 years ago when there were only 5 grades of coins. Good, Really good, excellent, really excellent and mint. Or whatever.

PerryHall

<< <i>Is there a way to take an ANACS or NCS details coin and use it as a pocket piece or artificially wear it to remove hairlines from a cleaning?

There are far less destructive and far more effective methods. Unfortunately, they are considered "coin doctoring". Oh, my! What to do, what to do? >>



Can you describe these methods so we can be on the look out for coins that have been doctored to hide a cleaning?

adamlaneus

Surface alterations can be done via the miracle of chemistry. It is not necessary to know the chemistry involved to recognize these coins. In fact, it's best to not discuss any details about the chemistry at all, lest we gain a few more amateur doctors to screw up yet more coins.

But there are good article as far as what to look for in an original surface.
One article

I bet some of the more knowledgable folks can cough up a better article than this.

Coxe

<< <i>What prompted this question, is that I've been looking at US Philippine coins. Some of the keys are extremely rare and found cleaned as that was common practice in the past with this series. I'm wondering if there is a way to convert a cleaned AU coin into a problem free XF.

As cladking pointed out, it's the current market that prefers problem free lower grades to cleaned coins with better details. For historically rare coins, it may be in the interest of "history" to preserve the details rather than try to improve the surfaces. >>



Are those coins market acceptable cleaned? Might not need to mess with them at all.

LincolnCentMan

Well, I had a barber dime that was cleaned. For about six months, I made sure that I touched all over it. It dulled back into a semi-origional looking state before I finally threw in the towle. Handling the coins is the only way I know of bringing them back to an origional look. I think on the MS cleaned coins, there's pretty much no way.... well, maybe album toning.

-David

JohnMaben

Answer: For practical purposes, no.

An improperly cleaned coin is one that has been harshly cleaned and its surfaces have essentially been destroyed. That can not be remedied. Evidence of the cleaning will still exist even if the coin experiences considerable additional wear.

However, I suppose if you used it as a pocket piece and wore it down a few grades it could possibly be graded at the lower grade, depends on the nature of the cleaning. Cleaning by over dipping or baking soda might not have penetrated deep into the coins surface, but polishing does and will completely displace the metal.

John

ricko

Whatever you do.. in this case... is 'doctoring'... you are concealing a condition to sell for profit. If you were just a collector, you would either not procure the coin, or you would buy it to fill a gap and look for better in the future. Cheers, RickO

oldcameoproofsguy

You can always use the coin as a pocket piece for a period of time until the hairlines are flattened out.

pmac

Leave the coin alone. Further damage (natural or artificial) will only worsen the problem. We, as collectors, determine the value of the coin. If it has damage, but you want it, you'll pay what ever is necessary to own it. Personally I think the old coppers have the same stories to tell even if the have been abused from a previous owner (or even the environment). This is where I disagree with PCSG in their body-bagging policy. One purpose of slabbing is to preserve, and I think, IMHO, that damaged coins deserve preservation also.

dorkkarl

<< <i>Is there a way to "fix" an improperly cleaned coin? >>

if you mean, to the point of getting slabed, then of course there is, in general. such coins get fixed then slabed routinely.

K S

Deadhorse

Human sweat over a short period of time has been known to do wonders for such coins.

I've had some luck there before. No wear, no fingerprints, etc.

How you manage that is your personal business.

YaHa

Call Molly Maids, they will clean for you.

cladking

<< <i>Answer: For practical purposes, no.

An improperly cleaned coin is one that has been harshly cleaned and its surfaces have essentially been destroyed. That can not be remedied. Evidence of the cleaning will still exist even if the coin experiences considerable additional wear.

However, I suppose if you used it as a pocket piece and wore it down a few grades it could possibly be graded at the lower grade, depends on the nature of the cleaning. Cleaning by over dipping or baking soda might not have penetrated deep into the coins surface, but polishing does and will completely displace the metal.

John >>




I've worn down a lot of coins.

Of course if the fields and low areas are are polished then it's going
to take a lot of work. Light cleanings disappear very easily. Obviously
the coin has more nice natural wear on it afterward.