If a third party offered Slab Authentication Insurance, would you buy a policy for a nominal premium
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
It seems that the Chinese have been getting into the market of creating fake slabs. That is a serious issue, and one that is being addressed by the TPGs. The most critical component of the TPGs is the confidence that they instill in collectors. If you take the confidence away, that creates some problems in the marketplace.
As collectors, we eagerly hand over a fee to the TPGs to provide an opinion on a grade. We further hand over a fee to sticker companies to give their opinion on the grade that the TPG assigned. However, we all know that grading is subjective. But, I think we all agree that there is nothing subjective about whether a slab is authentic or not.
Do you think that your money could be better spent if you bought an annual Slab Authentication Insurance policy for a nominal premium each year (let's say the premiums start at $100 per year)? With all of the money that is spent on grading and on the coins themselves, wouldn't you want the peace of mind that your slabs are authentic, and if they are not, that you will be compensated for them?
I see this concept working sort of like auto insurance. Safe drivers with good histories get lower auto rates. Reckless drivers pay higher rates because they are higher risk. For collectors it would work the same way. For a collector like TDN, for example, his rates will be very low, even though his collection is worth in the millions, simply because he is a seasoned collector. Another collector, say someone who has a history of buying coins from Chinese sellers on Ebay, would be considered a higher risk, and would pay a higher premium. Claims history would be used to determine future rates.
I think this is a great idea, and if the annual premiums are around $100 or so (and there are strict underwriting guidelines), then that will bring the confidence back into the marketplace. Additionally, it will be a benefit to dealers because they would worry less about checking not only the coins, but also the slabs. In fact, it might be a boon to dealers the same way that it is to a housing contractor-- the dealer can advertise that he carries slab insurance up to $10 million to gain the confidence of clients, the same way that a contractor advertises that he is insured and he carries workers' comp insurance.
Would you be willing to buy a slab authentication policy if some enterprising group started up an insurance company offering such a product?
As collectors, we eagerly hand over a fee to the TPGs to provide an opinion on a grade. We further hand over a fee to sticker companies to give their opinion on the grade that the TPG assigned. However, we all know that grading is subjective. But, I think we all agree that there is nothing subjective about whether a slab is authentic or not.
Do you think that your money could be better spent if you bought an annual Slab Authentication Insurance policy for a nominal premium each year (let's say the premiums start at $100 per year)? With all of the money that is spent on grading and on the coins themselves, wouldn't you want the peace of mind that your slabs are authentic, and if they are not, that you will be compensated for them?
I see this concept working sort of like auto insurance. Safe drivers with good histories get lower auto rates. Reckless drivers pay higher rates because they are higher risk. For collectors it would work the same way. For a collector like TDN, for example, his rates will be very low, even though his collection is worth in the millions, simply because he is a seasoned collector. Another collector, say someone who has a history of buying coins from Chinese sellers on Ebay, would be considered a higher risk, and would pay a higher premium. Claims history would be used to determine future rates.
I think this is a great idea, and if the annual premiums are around $100 or so (and there are strict underwriting guidelines), then that will bring the confidence back into the marketplace. Additionally, it will be a benefit to dealers because they would worry less about checking not only the coins, but also the slabs. In fact, it might be a boon to dealers the same way that it is to a housing contractor-- the dealer can advertise that he carries slab insurance up to $10 million to gain the confidence of clients, the same way that a contractor advertises that he is insured and he carries workers' comp insurance.
Would you be willing to buy a slab authentication policy if some enterprising group started up an insurance company offering such a product?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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Comments
<< <i>Give me a few minutes and I bet I can come up with an even goofier idea. >>
I doubt it.
Longacre stayed up all night to come up with that one.
Goofy ideas don't just pop into your head, you know.
Ray
I know I know ,,they sell for more money if they are slabbed .
Exactly why the fake slabs are showing up .
Always Looking for Raw Proof Lincoln Cents !!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
Which means the only way to be sure the slab is legit every time the slab trades hand it would be have to be "reauthenticated".
Not practical although it would be an endless stream of revenue for such a company, but no way the buying public would go for that.
<< <i>Buy raw coins and forget the Plastic !
I know I know ,,they sell for more money if they are slabbed .
Exactly why the fake slabs are showing up .
True about the fake slabs showing up, but there are plenty of raw coins that are fakes as well as its the coin itself that presents the value.
Then we'd have:
* A business which is "rating" the solvency of
* A business which provides authenticity insurance for slabs issued by
* A business which slabs and authenticates coins.
Heck, if the insurer only took CAC-stickered slabs, we could add a fourth party to the melee...
I'd better go back to being a working stiff for a living.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
roadrunner
I strongly disagree with that approach.
<< <i>If it gets that complicated, I will be out of coins. Perhaps I will collect artifacts from biblical times--there's no counterfeit problem there to worry about.
so you don't get confused with the modern biblical replicas like I do?
<< <i>
<< <i>If it gets that complicated, I will be out of coins. Perhaps I will collect artifacts from biblical times--there's no counterfeit problem there to worry about.
so you don't get confused with the modern biblical replicas like I do? >>
Actually, there was a "60 Minutes" segment on it last week. Most of the treasures of the antiquities in museums and private collections are made to order by craftsmen in Cairo. They even add soil taken from documented digs and old charcoal for the "original" patina. You think the rare coin market is scary? It ain't nothin' in comparison.
<< <i>Ah ... I see an opening for 'Fifth Party Graders/authenticators.... People, does it ever end? Get a grip.... it is bad enough many are supporting fourth party graders.... If you cannot grade or authenticate.. get the hell out of the hobby.... Cheers, RickO >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Ah ... I see an opening for 'Fifth Party Graders/authenticators.... People, does it ever end? Get a grip.... it is bad enough many are supporting fourth party graders.... If you cannot grade or authenticate.. get the hell out of the hobby.... Cheers, RickO >>
Thanks. I'm thinking abou it, seriously.
<< <i>If you cannot grade or authenticate.. get the hell out of the hobby
I strongly disagree with that approach. >>
I think he meant "If you cannot learn to grade or authenticate......"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>If you cannot grade or authenticate.. get the hell out of the hobby
I strongly disagree with that approach. >>
I think he meant "If you cannot learn to grade or authenticate......" >>
Seems to me that even some of the best graders have missed a counterfeit here and there. Guess you should contact David Hall and tell him to close up shop.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No.
In most so-called no fault states, the insurance coverage follows the person and not the car. In the non no fault states, the coverage follows the vehicle
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Auto insurance is not always tied to a particular car. If you are driving someone elses' car with their permission and you wreck it, your insurance may cover it. Same with rental vehicle you are driving(under 10,000lbs. in MD.,I believe). Respectfully, John Curlis >>
The damage done to a rental vehicle, as long as it is not rented for more than 30 days meets gvw limits, is covered under the property damage section of an auto insurance policy. Hence, no deductible.
Most states are permissive use states, which mean the owner of the vehicle is on the hook for not only the damage to the vehicle he or she has lent to someone, but also to any other property damaged or third party injured caused by the "borrowed" vehicle. If a vehicle has been stolen there is no permissive use hence no liability (in general) by the vehicles owner.
The driver's insurance may also come into play if they are at majority fault (percentages can vary by state 51% in some as low as 15% in others) but generally does not apply to a borrowed vehicle (rentals again are a different story).
You may use coins to pay for your auto insurance (felt the need to have coins mentioned in some way).
As to antiquites, I recall a line from the original Indiana Jones movie where Indiana Jones' competitior in the search for and acquistion of antiquities tells him that his current wathc is cheap, but bury it in the sand for 5,000 years and it becomes an item of incalcuable value.
<< <i>Can you say No Fault and PIP?
In most so-called no fault states, the insurance coverage follows the person and not the car. In the non no fault states, the coverage follows the vehicle >>
No Fault or Personal Injury Protection follows the person and is primary over the policy of another vehicles' PIP or liability coverage. If you are injured as a passenger or pedestrian your policies' PIP is the primary insurance, it tops all forms of insurance, except workers comp in some instances. If a passenger in your vehicle is not covered under their own or other household family members policy then in this case the vehicles PIP applies to them as well.
All these auto insurance post will surely kill this thread.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
In SC you'd be in jail, or not driving legally. Take Care, jws