The Melting Continues - And It's Not Platinum & Gold Eagles!

wondercoin

I thought I would share an interesting conversation I just had with a large wholesale supplier of fresh raw moderns who often supplies me with proof sets and MS and Proof Silver Ike Dollars. I had noticed that over the past several months, he has supplied me mountains of the proof sets in the years I was looking for, including the 1976 3-pc Silver sets. However, his shipments of Proof and MS Ike Dollars had come to a trickle. I asked him why I had not seen my typical supplies of these coins.

Of course, there was an easy answer to my question... he has been busy MELTING every coin he could get!! Even today, CDN bid on all the MS Silver Ikes as well as 1971-1972 Proof Silver Ikes is $6.50-$7.00/coin. And, a month or two ago, those figures were closer to $5-$6/coin for many of the dates. Meanwhile, spot silver, which stands around $18/oz today had been over $20/oz during this time period. He explained to me: (a) each 40% Silver Ike has about .31 oz of silver in it - about $5.50/oz worth of silver today, but about $6.50 a coin at $21/oz silver and (b) there is great demand for 40% silver bars in industry today - there is no need to even separate out the metals.

Using the same math, the 3-pc Silver Proof set of 40% silver coins has .31 and .155 and .0775 ozs, of silver in the set, or about .5425 ozs. of silver per set. So, at $13.50 bid for the set, the set only has about $9.75 worth of silver in it and at $21/oz, the set has about $11.40 in silver value. Hence, why I have been bombarded with 3-pc Silver sets lately, but, virtually no MS Silver Ikes.

Let's take a look at what happens to these Silver Ikes at $30/oz...

1971-1974 MS Silver Ikes have about $9.30 of silver in them, as well as 1971-1972 Silver Proof Ikes - so how many of these head to the melting pot if and when silver moves up another 35%? Meanwhile, these 3-pc proof Silver 1976-S sets then have about $16.80 worth of silver in them and off they will (likely) go to the melting pot as well at that point in time.

Ditto for many silver state quarter proof sets - you do the math on how much melt value these sets now have and would have at $25/oz silver.

Anyway, I thought my conversation with this dealer was quite interesting and I wanted to share it with you. I wonder just how many Proof and MS Silver Ikes were melted in and around 1980 as well?

Wondercoin

MilesWaits

Thanks Mitch for the sharing!
How about the Kennedy's? I imagine they too are dissapearing into the Pot O' Melt. Not that there seems to be a shortage.
Good to hear some of the Silver Quarters will be eliminated. The series could use a bump.
I still wonder, oh how I wonder, how much of the current stock of Platinum Liberty's series has become molten.

Miles

COINB0Y

ricko

I also wonder how many of these 'melt-bound' coins are rescued by collectors at the smelters? Got to be some buy back at that point. Cheers, RickO

itsnotjustme

Interesting on the demand for 40% bars. I guess there is new life (or death?) for 40% Kennedy's.

Overdate

there is great demand for 40% silver bars in industry today - there is no need to even separate out the metals.

This is the first time I've ever heard of 40% silver bars.

What are they used for in industry? Does the other 60% have to be copper? Do they look a lot different from .999 silver bars or other metals? Do they have to be assayed to prove they're not 35% or 30% silver?

rgl1345

All Ike's and Kennedy's should be melted!!

cladking

Thanks for the info. I was wodering where all those 40% Ikes were going.

There was some destruction of 40% in the '79/ '80 run-up. It was not only Ikes
but even '68. '69 mint sets and a few SMS's. This wasn't widespread then, though.

wondercoin

"What are they used for in industry?"

If you think about it - the 40% pure coins produce about 10 kt. products. I just googled 10 kt and see plenty of 10kt gold products out there. I did not see any 10 kt silver products? So, today's question is what industry's use 10kt silver and for what purposes? Anyone know? Wondercoin.

charley

Part of the answer may be the nuclear construction industry. Respectfully, John Curlis

Griv

<< <i>All Ike's and Kennedy's should be melted!! >>



I agree with that statement in regard to the Kennedy halves. I recommend melting all the clad ones too.

CB2597

Thanks for sharing.

291fifth

I think the melting that is now going on is going to be good for the hobby. There has been too much of this type of junk on the market for years. Hopefully, the melt will eliminate much of the excess.

cladking

<< <i>"What are they used for in industry?"

If you think about it - the 40% pure coins produce about 10 kt. products. I just googled 10 kt and see plenty of 10kt gold products out there. I did not see any 10 kt silver products? So, today's question is what industry's use 10kt silver and for what purposes? Anyone know? Wondercoin. >>




I'd guess electrical contacts. These were about 600 fine several years ago but I heartell
they've been degraded a little. These would be the massive electrical switches used in
power generation and in industry.

The usage might not be for exactly 400 fine. They can add a little silver or copper to make
the desired alloy. They can be used anywhere that a silver/ copper mixture is needed. It
is a damn shame that, apparently, war nickels are still unusable for this purpose.

The amount of manganese in the nickels should be low enough that it's accepable in some
sort of application. If silver gets high enough the demand for these will almost certainly mat-
erialize.

JoesMaName

<< <i>"What are they used for in industry?"

If you think about it - the 40% pure coins produce about 10 kt. products. I just googled 10 kt and see plenty of 10kt gold products out there. I did not see any 10 kt silver products? So, today's question is what industry's use 10kt silver and for what purposes? Anyone know? Wondercoin. >>




eBay's Chinese made 99.9999% silver bar fabrication industry?

57loaded

appreciate your knowledge, wisdom and opinions

you are top dawg

CHEESEBURGER

Anybody have any information on if there has been much platinum melted down. Thanks

jdimmick

I know I am trowing my fair share of that type stuff into 1k bags!!!


jim

wondercoin

I will also ask the dealer selling the coins who might be using the 40% silver bars.

I see silver is used quite a bit together with the 10kt gold jewelry. Perhaps that is a use as well as an alternative to "sterling" silver (which is about 92% pure).

Wondercoin

P.S. I got the original brochure in one of the 3 pc 1976-S Silver Proof Sets I bought the other day. The brochure mentions that "orders are now being accepted through 1/31/75 for delivery after 7/475". The buyer marked "$15.00" on the paperwork. So, let's see - after 33 years, the set is now selling for 90% of original mint issue price!! Even if money doubles every 8 years, that $15 back in 1975 is now worth about $240 in the bank (and $13.50 in this set). Interesting.

keets

40% silver bars???? c'mon guys, you don't seriously think that they melt the 40% silver coins and put it into bars at that fineness, that's ludicrous. what do you think they do with the 90% silver coins, make 90% bars????? a smelter seperates the alloy to get the pure metals and then the bars are .999 fine just like every other one you see.

wondercoin

Keets - I heard it from a very reliable source - 40% silver bars my friend. I'll try to find out more next week on this.

Wondercoin

wondercoin

I got in touch with the dealer this afternoon that is metling the 40% silver Ikes. I asked hm what anyone is doing with the 40% silver. This is his reponse:

"INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING--- SUCH AS SILVER SOLDER NOT INVESTOR BARS"


Wondercoin

P.S. - Check out "silver soldering" & "brazing" on the net.

dpoole

Why aren't they going after the bullion coins?

wondercoin

If you take the time to read the articles on silver solder, you easily see why 40% silver bars are so important to industry. Also, with 40% silver bars, you can create assorted % of silver solders. For example, a blend of (2) 40% bars with a .999 bar, gets you a 60% pure silver alloy, etc.

All very interesting stuff. You learn something new every day.

Wondercoin

airedale

<< <i>"What are they used for in industry?"

If you think about it - the 40% pure coins produce about 10 kt. products. I just googled 10 kt and see plenty of 10kt gold products out there. I did not see any 10 kt silver products? So, today's question is what industry's use 10kt silver and for what purposes? Anyone know? Wondercoin. >>



To braze copper pipe in the Heating Cooling and Ventilation Business 15% silver is used, perhaps 40% silver is better for that purpose.

keets

trust me, Mitch, you have it wrong.

wondercoin

Keets - Please explain - what are they doing with the melted 40% coins then (you agree they are melting them - right?) I want to "get it right".

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

Mitrch and Keets are probably BOTH correct. Coins can be melted and the melt can go into various forms whether they be pure silver or 40 percent bars... it really doesnt matter.

the point is that there is another melt going on. and you can make your own investment decisions accordingly.

thanks for the info guys.

keets

i certainly believe the 40% coins are being melted just like the 90% coins are being melted. the smelters just seperate the different metals that make up the alloy composition, silver and copper, than form the pure bars of .999 fineness. when the solder or whatever else is manufactured, the process is simply worked in reverse, the proper proportions of each metal contained in the final alloy are added and melted together.

Overdate

So, let's see - after 33 years, the set is now selling for 90% of original mint issue price!!

Depends on when the 3-piece 1976-S silver proof and uncirculated sets were ordered. As I recall, the Mint changed prices on these sets several times in response to changes in the price of silver.

The amount of manganese in the nickels should be low enough that it's accepable in some sort of application. If silver gets high enough the demand for these will almost certainly materialize.

I believe that war nickels come under the current cent and nickel melt ban.

57loaded

the 40% probably does the job "fine" as far as industrial application.

not everything needs to be .9995??

amiller

I would be surprised if these are being melted for direct use in jewelry, as I'd expect the high copper content to potentially turn your finger/wrist/ears/etc. green when worn.

cladking

<< <i>

I believe that war nickels come under the current cent and nickel melt ban. >>




You may be right since I don't believe they are specifically excluded. I doubt
that they would take any action to stop the practice or prosecute though.

They might be excluded by their lack of "nickel".

CaptHenway

I have never heard of any direct use for .400 fine bar silver.
All I know is that most refiners don't like doing clad halves because the low fineness makes them run it through the furnace twice.
TD

jmski52

This discussion is making me crazy. I looked up silver solders. You are both right. There are 2 types of silver solder. One is 63% Ag, 30% Cu, and 7% Zn. The other is 40% Ag, 40% Sn, 14% Cu, and 6% Zn.

So, if they are whipping up a batch of silver solder, they could use a bar of 40% silver/60% copper for sure - but they would also have to add the rest of the components in the right proportions in order to make a complete batch.

And it would be handier to simply have bars of .9995 material for each component, so that they didn't have to treat each batch as if it were rework.

amiller

I can't see them verifying the dates (or mint mark/weight for Ike's) for each coin they want to throw in a batch. Depending on their tolerances they would need to do so. I agree the silver is probably separated from the copper first.

pontiacinf

rest in peace, IKE

sorry mitch, but that is one coin I can do without