PSA and why they take so long to grade your stuff
BrackenCollection
Posts: 42 ✭
The other day I talked with a dealer and told me that PSA grades his stuff for less than $4.50 a card year round and you know what he does when he sends them in. You know what we do we have to fill out the submission forms with stickers on every card and line number. Well, all he does is fill out the account information part and how many items he as and delcared value and sticks them in box. So, this means PSA as to take every one of his cards which are over 1000 a month to get this deal and fill out what kind it is and look up variations which will take some time. He also said he would send my cards for me to get better grades because he seems to get all 9's and 10's back. So, I say BIAS or NOT you make the call.
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They are so BIAS it's ridiculous!!
4SC gets their stuff turned within 3 days most of the time, those invoices are all hand filled and usually consist of <100 cards each time. They pay WAY less than $4.50 / card.
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it on this message board.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Unless of course I was ........
Steve
I ask, what's the problem? If you want to say it isn't so, that fine. If you want to say why should a bulk submitter get a better deal, then come up with several thousand cards per month and give Joe a call. I bet you could get a deal at no more than $5.00 per card (vintage and modern) with a three week or less turnaround. If you can't come up with that sort of volume on a monthly basis (I know that I can't), then why complain about those that can.
Now, I believe envoy when he says that 4SC gets a rate better than $5.00, but I seriously doubt they're getting a 3 day turnaround on most of their orders. However, I'm sure if a major submitter has an invoice that needs expidited service, they're accomodated.
Anyway, is it BIAS? No, it's called taking care of your big clients. And as much as some wish it weren't true, it's just the way that business is. It's not always fair no matter how much we want it to be or how hard we wish that it was!
good business sense to work hard for your customers, and work extra hard for your very good customers. JMO.
J
RIP GURU
What I'd like to know is: how can anyone not understand that, and how can anybody disagree with its being so?
Most cards simply aren't worth very much, and it's very tough to live up to these contracts' submission standards without submitting (and then having to sell) a lot of low-end junk.
<< <i>Why do some find what Bracken has to say to be sound outrageous? While I wouldn't suggest that his dealer friend's submissions garner "all 9's and 10's back," I know for a fact that there are bulk dealer rates and that these discounted rates also have better turnaround times.
I ask, what's the problem? If you want to say it isn't so, that fine. If you want to say why should a bulk submitter get a better deal, then come up with several thousand cards per month and give Joe a call. I bet you could get a deal at no more than $5.00 per card (vintage and modern) with a three week or less turnaround. If you can't come up with that sort of volume on a monthly basis (I know that I can't), then why complain about those that can.
Now, I believe envoy when he says that 4SC gets a rate better than $5.00, but I seriously doubt they're getting a 3 day turnaround on most of their orders. However, I'm sure if a major submitter has an invoice that needs expidited service, they're accomodated.
Anyway, is it BIAS? No, it's called taking care of your big clients. And as much as some wish it weren't true, it's just the way that business is. It's not always fair no matter how much we want it to be or how hard we wish that it was! >>
Believe it.
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<< <i>Why do some find what Bracken has to say to be sound outrageous? While I wouldn't suggest that his dealer friend's submissions garner "all 9's and 10's back," I know for a fact that there are bulk dealer rates and that these discounted rates also have better turnaround times.
I ask, what's the problem? If you want to say it isn't so, that fine. If you want to say why should a bulk submitter get a better deal, then come up with several thousand cards per month and give Joe a call. I bet you could get a deal at no more than $5.00 per card (vintage and modern) with a three week or less turnaround. If you can't come up with that sort of volume on a monthly basis (I know that I can't), then why complain about those that can.
Now, I believe envoy when he says that 4SC gets a rate better than $5.00, but I seriously doubt they're getting a 3 day turnaround on most of their orders. However, I'm sure if a major submitter has an invoice that needs expidited service, they're accomodated.
Anyway, is it BIAS? No, it's called taking care of your big clients. And as much as some wish it weren't true, it's just the way that business is. It's not always fair no matter how much we want it to be or how hard we wish that it was! >>
So when Larry Curly and Moe get the big boys subs they DO NOT KNOW whose cards they are just seeing they dont have to submit them the same way JoeQpublic does (numbered white stickies on the back of EVERY card) they know its a minimum grade 9 and off they go back to 4scumbags 3 days later. I am shocked at least P$A wont stoop to half grades as they keep their word on promises.
As big oil says they are not in the oil business but the oil shortage business. P$A is not in the card grading fairly business, but the cater to the big boys in cut rates prices and inflated grades.
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I would venture an educated guess that the non-bulk submissions account for as much or more of PSA's revenue as the bulk submitters. Hence, I doubt, before anyone suggests otherwise, that PSA would intentionally or deliberately be more critical of and down grade the average submitters' invoice.
Do I believe that bulk submissions get some breaks? No doubt. Understanding the model and the process suggests that it would have to be so.
To answer the question of why so many high grades? Because most of these submissions are minimum grade or no holder. Now, my assumption is that if PSA makes $X on non holdered cards and $X+$Y on holdered cards, that there are some cards that may get a little push when they might not on a regular invoice. And as has been discussed many times before, there's often a very fine line between a NM, NM-MT, and a MT card that such a bump isn't really going too far out on a limb.
I mean, when all is said and done, it's all about the Benjamins, isn't it? For us (and don't give me the "I'm in it to collect" retort as if that's the case, why get anything graded...it's about the perceived value) and for PSA!
Mickey71
1952 Topps Collector.
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The reason is when alot of dealers send in 10's of thousands of cards a month, apparently they come first to grading and return time, pushing us peons (The Real Collectors) back to the end of the line everytime the big time dealers submitt 1,000's of cards. So, that's why it takes so long. Dealers come first and in my opinion that is BIAS, maybe not towards grades but definately towards return time, which is why everybody gets so upset with PSA.
Sorry for thread,
Roland
<< <i>So, now that we know why it takes so long maybe we can stop replying to this thread. If you still don't know why, well let me just bring you up to speed.
The reason is when alot of dealers send in 10's of thousands of cards a month, apparently they come first to grading and return time, pushing us peons (The Real Collectors) back to the end of the line everytime the big time dealers submitt 1,000's of cards. So, that's why it takes so long. Dealers come first and in my opinion that is BIAS, maybe not towards grades but definately towards return time, which is why everybody gets so upset with PSA.
Sorry for thread,
Roland >>
I sorry Roland, but many of these dealers spend 10's of thousand of dollars to advertise with PSA on there web page and the SMR. Trust me, its not cheap to place a full page add in the SMR for 12 months. I do think PSA gives some advertisers price breaks and shorter time frames, but who in there right mind wouldn't
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
<< <i>So, now that we know why it takes so long maybe we can stop replying to this thread. If you still don't know why, well let me just bring you up to speed.
The reason is when alot of dealers send in 10's of thousands of cards a month, apparently they come first to grading and return time, pushing us peons (The Real Collectors) back to the end of the line everytime the big time dealers submitt 1,000's of cards. So, that's why it takes so long. Dealers come first and in my opinion that is BIAS, maybe not towards grades but definately towards return time, which is why everybody gets so upset with PSA.
Sorry for thread,
Roland >>
Not to sound rude, but you point a condemning finger at PSA, then state that you have an alternative that many other readers of this thread don't to get your cards done quickly and with higher grades, and you still complain????
Send your cards in with your dealer friend. That solves the problem for you, doesn't it?
Maybe your friend can get you a tee time at the country club that you don't belong to or pay upkeep on. Maybe the next time you need something from someone, you'll be able to find an in and not have to pony up like that someone else has. If you can, all the more power to you. But if you want to complain about it, too . . . well, that just ends up being sour grapes!
But that's just my opinion.
Exactly who was complaining? When you made your post not one person had.
Unless of course you consider someone saying 'poof' as outrageous.
I found it odd that he would brag that his dealer friend gets all 9's and 10's, then again I have
no idea what his friend submits. As for the stickers I do it sometimes and other times I don't.
As for large scale submitters getting a discount that is basically known by everyone here
as PSA states it on the submission form, so no new news there.
Thank God no math was involved.
Steve
And you consider this not outrageous?
Steve
I never put a sticker on any of my card savers nor do i even fill out a submission form but i wait a MINIMUM of 40 business days EVERY TIME.
My orders are always at least 1000 cards.
I get TONS of 8s on modern crap so I doubt bulk submitters are getting a break on the grades.. Unless they use the min grade thing which i havent tried yet but will in the future.
In fact, besides a small price break, the only courtesy I get is not having to fill out submission forms.
I'm really not knocking PSA for doing this, because it makes perfectly good sense to do it. But, I am knocking their turnaround time for us collectors, which in my opinion is the heart and soul of PSA. It's almost ridiculous to wait so long for grades when they take your money the day of recieving it. But, I expected that when I submitted my stuff before knowing this dealer. And yes I'm going to send my stuff to the dealer instead of me sending them because I'm going to get them back quicker and that solves my problem with the turnaround time, because PSA will never change their turnaround time for us collectors.
I'm sorry for not being most intelligent guy when complaining and I wasn't complaining in my last post just pointing out the obvious.
Thanks for everyones input. I find it all a learning experience when I read these threads and not a knock towards anyone.
Also, I did all the stickers, in fear that it would too be on the problem shelf.
so "they" do not know who's cards their are grading. If I had tried to get my cards graded without a submission form wonder where my cards would have ended up? The "dealer" who is the source of this information probably should have just kept quiet also.
<< <i>never put a sticker on any of my card savers nor do i even fill out a submission form but i wait a MINIMUM of 40 business days EVERY TIME.
so "they" do not know who's cards their are grading. If I had tried to get my cards graded without a submission form wonder where my cards would have ended up? The "dealer" who is the source of this information probably should have just kept quiet also. >>
This post hits the nail right on the head.
Many seem to want to know the "hows" and "whys" and all of the "tricks" and "alterations," but as soon as someone points it out, they are either "liars" or they "should have just kept quiet."
I commend Roger for his honesty and if someone has a problem with him not using stickers or filling out his invoices take it up with PSA. If they don't require someone to do it, why should they? I don't necessarily agree with the policy, but if he can do it that way, more power to him. I'd love to save the time not having to write out my puny 50 and 100 card submissions.
I'm not trying to create an argument, but I'm just trying to point out that there are plenty of things that happen in life that the Average Joe isn't going to be privy to and as long as the Average Joe doesn't know about it, there's no harm. But as soon as Average Joe learns about it, the "what about me" line starts. Why is that?
Steve
I don't fault PSA for offering cheaper or even faster service, but when I check some of these dealers' completed auctions and see hundreds of cards selling for $5 or less
Those cards are what they call 'loss leaders' With shipping, they are at the very least still making a buck per card. The money is made
by the 9's and 10's they get. All it takes is for one really low pop 9 or 10 and the order is profitable. And since they have the PSA standard down
pat I would assume they get a few. Every submission they do makes them money. The auctions you see that end at 5.00 bring people
to their site/auctions.
JMO
Steve
lol geez you're here all of 2 months and will bring us up to speed. Thanks, how in the world did we get by without you?
Steve
Also some dealers got charged during their 0.5 bump reviews only for the cards that bumped.
If anything PSA with these collectors does seem enticed to bump and grade at the min to collect more money.
<< <i>never put a sticker on any of my card savers nor do i even fill out a submission form but i wait a MINIMUM of 40 business days EVERY TIME.
so "they" do not know who's cards their are grading. If I had tried to get my cards graded without a submission form wonder where my cards would have ended up? The "dealer" who is the source of this information probably should have just kept quiet also. >>
Its no secret.. You can call PSA and tell them you want to send in 1000 cards and sign a bulk waiver form and you can do the same thing. As long as you don't mind tying up >5k for 3 months.
If you guys think that not having to fill out the submission form line by line is "special treatment" then I guess you would be really appalled by what goes on with city budgets and how government spends your tax dollars. What I get from PSA wouldn't even be a considered a blip on the favormeter.
If you would like to get a taste of how things really work..
1) Try opening up a construction company and getting a contract to build a highway for the city...
2) Try opening up a medical supply company and get a large hospital to work with you...
3) Try buying a piece of property where the zoning is iffy and getting it changed so that you can build(40+units) on it..
I am a nobody to PSA, there are guys who send in tens of thousands of cards. If you think their cards are sitting on the shelf next to yours and are being graded blind by the same guy who grades your cards then I am sorry but you really don't have a clue.
I don't blame them one bit, this is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. (In Every Business)
Lets buy 30 cheap psa 10s from 4 sharp corners and psasetguy, find someone responsible to crack and resubmit the cards.
I think you would find the results interesting. Although I am not sure most would want to know the results.
we, as collectors, are not to blame or is it necessary to blame each other.
there are other grading companies,
and i believe many of us are going to employ them,
as many of us already have begun to migrate elsewhere.
i only wonder if joe orlando or any people who care about lifeblood of psa read these boards?
we are all saying the same thing,
continually,
but is anybody listening?
j
RIP GURU
I wasn't bashing you I was simply saying that we (I) do not need for you to bring us (me) up to speed.
perhaps if you toned down the rhetoric? The replies would not be as harsh. Garbage in, garbage out.
And by the way if you were here before why didn't you simply use that name?
Steve
<< <i>By the way, if anyone is up for an experiment.. I would chip in.
Lets buy 30 cheap psa 10s from 4 sharp corners and psasetguy, find someone responsible to crack and resubmit the cards.
I think you would find the results interesting. Although I am not sure most would want to know the results. >>
Really? Would we? You mean they wouldn't all come back PSA 10's, again? C'mon Roger, say it isn't so!
<< <i>
<< <i>By the way, if anyone is up for an experiment.. I would chip in.
Lets buy 30 cheap psa 10s from 4 sharp corners and psasetguy, find someone responsible to crack and resubmit the cards.
I think you would find the results interesting. Although I am not sure most would want to know the results. >>
Really? Would we? You mean they wouldn't all come back PSA 10's, again? C'mon Roger, say it isn't so!
They wouldn't all come back PSA 10's no matter who you bought them from. Of this I am nearly certain.
<< <i>I would set the over under at 11/30... >>
That's probably about right-- although an experiment like this isn't very interesting unless a) the sample size is sufficiently high, and b) there is a 'control' group; which, in this case, would be 30 or so PSA 10's resubmitted that were not initially graded by Roger, or Jonathan, or any of the other guys who seem to have free and open access to the flip printer at PSA.