<< <i>nice card; care to share why it's your dream card? >>
First off, thanks for all the replies guys! There's ben a whole page of them since I went to bed last night! Thanks for all the support!
And yes, I'd love to share why it's my dream card...
I havent even been collecting baseball cards for a year yet... my first ever card was a 1949 Bowman card last July (2007). That card inspired me to go for the whole 1949 Bowman Red Sox team set, which, in turn, inspired me to go for the whoel dang thing. At this point I knew absolutely nothing about the set, it's seven print-runs. The SNB/PNB or NOF/NNOF variations, etc.. so I had to do a lot of reading online.
In my research, I learned a lot about Jackie Robinson, both on and off the field. He was a great guy in both settings. He was also part of an historic part of American and baseball history, by breaking the color barrier in professionally-recognized sports. Of course there were others (Satchell Paige, Larry Doby, etc) but Jackie is the most widely-recognized figure in this movement. It inspired me.
Now, just being a regular guy with a modest salary, I thought I'd never be able to afford it. My most expensive card (prior to this one) was $200.00 for the Musial. It took a long time to save, and a lot of research online, and one just happened to pop up on the Bay. Not just any "one" though... this one... probably the nicest 6 I've ever seen. I've seen 7's that has less eye-appeal than this one. The grade itself wasnt as important as getting a great example of the card. Actually, there's a 3 on the Bay as we speak and it drips eye-appeal, but I'm sure it's got a crease that the scan doesnt pick up.
So when I saw this one, it was in my price range, it's an outstanding example, and I had the money saved up... so I pulled the trigger.
My fiancee knew how big a deal this was to me too. When I won the auction, she had a big smile on her face and said congratulations with a hug. It was cool!
Some may say, "Dude, it's cardboard"... but it's been my highest goal thus far in my short collecting days, and it's been realized... and it feels good!
Assuming you did, especially at that price. Care to post it?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
My fiancee knew how big a deal this was to me too. When I won the auction, she had a big smile on her face and said congratulations with a hug. It was cool!
/q]
Smart move buying your dream card BEFORE you say "I do".... If I was going to spend that much coin on one card...my wife would be saying "YOU DON'T."
Congrats..I am sure it feels great to get your dream card, but if you are like me....another dream card will take its place soon and the cycle starts over again! Enjoy!
Congrats..I am sure it feels great to get your dream card, but if you are like me....another dream card will take its place soon and the cycle starts over again! Enjoy!
Thanks man! Yes, the next goal is the Campanella Rookie from the same set, but it'll never trump this one :-)
"No one knows for sure as to whether the white backs or the gray backs are the more scarce. I have found that gray backs are more difficult to find, but there has been no value added to the different backs".
1949 Bowman Baseball Complete Set: 240 or 252 Cards?
It is the purpose of this article to revisit the evolution of the 1949 Bowman Baseball Set and the memories it generates. Two great previous articles were written by Ted Zanidakis and Ralph Triplette in 1983 and 1998, a must read for the 1949 Bowman collector. (See reference 1 and 2).
It was the Spring of 1949 when the 1st Series of the 1949 Bowman baseball cards came onto the market.
I was eight years old and was attending Public School 69 in Jackson Heights, Queens, New York. The school was on 37th Avenue between 77th and 78th street. A sundries store was across the street from the school on the corner of 37th Ave. and 78th St. My twin brother, Roger and I would check everyday to see if new cards were being sold over the counter in the store. The 78th Street side of the building had a red brick wall with a wide sidewalk to the street. After school we would use the sidewalk and brick wall to "pitch" our baseball cards against the wall. They were a great size (2-1/6" x 2-1/2") to hold between the end of the middle finger and bottom of the palm, and we would "sail" them against the wall. Whoever was the closest to the wall would win the other boy's card, and a "leaner" on the wall would get paid double. Also, if you "covered" a card closer to the wall, you would win it.
We never thought about the "condition" of the cards, and the softer the corners the better for pitching and holding cards close to the wall. These cards were obviously "game worn" and you would think they would demand a premium in today's market as "game-worn" memorabilia (ha, ha, ha).
With that background of memories, let me relate what we didn't know then (or cared), on how the 1949 Bowman came into the market. There were 240 different players, and the cards were printed on seven sheets (7 series) of 36 cards with 4 rows of 9 cards; that's 7 x 36 = 252 cards. I will shortly explain the extra 12 cards.
The 1st printing consisted of the 1st and 2nd Series (two sheets of 36 cards each) for cards #1 through #73. There was no card #4. As a marketing ploy, Bowman left out card #4 and that position on sheet #1 was replaced by card #73- Billy Cox. I was not a "set collector" in 1949, and didn't notice the missing card #4, but many kids kept buying packs looking for a superstar as a card #4. These cards had no name on the front (NNOF) and the name on the back was printed (PNB). The first 72 cards used a white stock, then switched to a gray stock that was used throughout the remaining print runs. This created 72 white-back AND 72 gray-back cards for 72 variations (#1-3, 5-73). No one knows for sure as to whether the white backs or the gray backs are the more scarce, but from my experience in collecting both, I have found that gray backs are more difficult to find, but there has been no value added to the different backs.
During the Spring and Summer of 1949, the 2nd printing included the 3rd Series of 36 cards #74 through #108, plus the missing card #4. To the dismay of many, card #4 was not a superstar (i.e. Joe DiMaggio), but an infielder named Jerry Priddy with the St. Louis Browns; Jerry who? Bowman inserted #4-Priddy into the 73rd position of the 3rd sheet to complete the 1st Series. These cards also had no name on the front (NNOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB), as was the case for the first two Series.
The 3rd printing, in the Summer of 1949, included the 4th Series of 36 cards #109 through #144. This 4th Series changed from the first three Series in that the player's name was printed on the front of the card (NOF), and the name on the back was a simulated scripted autograph (SCR).
The 4th printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 5th Series of 36 cards #145 through #180. This 5th Series changed from the previous 4th Series in that the simulated scripted name on the back was returned to a name in print on the back (PNB), but the name on the front (NOF) was continued.
The 5th printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 6th Series of 36 cards #181 through #216. This 6th Series stayed the same as the previous 5th Series in that there was a printed name on the front (NOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB).
The 6th and last printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 7th Series of 24 cards #217 through #240. The last sheet had room for 12 more players, but it was too late in the process to find 12 new players, so Bowman reached back to the 3rd Series for (6) cards: numbers 4, 78, 83, 85, 88 and 98. These cards were changed from having no name on the front (NNOF) to include a name on the front (NOF). The final six (6) cards came from the 4th Series with numbers 109, 124, 126,127,132 and 143. These cards were changed from having a scripted autograph on the back (SCR) to a name in print on the back (PNB). Consequently, all of the 7th Series cards have a printed name on the front (NOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB), as was the case for the previous 6th Series.
The Fall of 1949 printing (Series 5, 6 and 7) was not as plentiful as Series 1, 2, 3 or 4 as was the case for many sets of the '50s and '60s, when the "Boys of Summer" gave way to football as baseball interest waned. For the 1949 Bowman issue, these later Series are about twice as difficult to find as the first four Series cards, and include the even more difficult 7th Series variation cards.
Therefore, the complete set of 1949 Bowman includes 240 different players with 12 players repeated in different formats to complete the 7th Series for a total of 252 cards. And, if you consider the white and gray back variations, you could add 72 more cards for a master set of 324 cards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe he is going for the master set. At least eventually. Are there a lot of variations? I know about the NNOF and NOF and the back script variations. Are there any others?
Chris
Chris My small collection Want List: '61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7 Cardinal T206 cards Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
Therefore, the complete set of 1949 Bowman includes 240 different players with 12 players repeated in different formats to complete the 7th Series for a total of 252 cards. And, if you consider the white and gray back variations, you could add 72 more cards for a master set of 324 cards
I picked up Mr. Robinson from the PO this morning (missed the original delivery attempt yesterday).
My original plan was to send in for some .5 action, but now that I see it in person, I will not be sending it in. I knew the lower left corner was an issue, but as you can see in this large scan, all four corners are soft, and I dont think the centering is enough to get some bumpage.
I'm 100% content with the card though. This is probably the nicest 6 I've ever seen and I've been looking at this card for quite some time.
<< <i>Definitely 6.5 material. Might have to give it a few tries, but it will get bumped eventually. Centering is unbelievable. >>
Thanks Lee.. I agree, the centering is better than some $3,000.00 PSA 8's I've seen, but with all the post lately about corners being the main focus on bumpage, I wonder if I'll ever get it? Joe Orlando's comment seems to be more focused on centering, but recent sub results have proven otherwise.
I might hang on to it for a while till the graders get a better handle on the new system, then send it in. I'll be sure to keep the thread updated.
<< <i>I wonder if Alan will collecting the set with all the variations? That would be tough to accomplish. I wonder if he knows what he is in for? >>
Yes, I know what I'm in for
The NOF/NNOF and SNB/PNB variations dont have a significant premium associated with them.
For instance, the #98 Phil Rizzuto NOF PSA 6 shows a VCP average of $198.89 and the NNOF PSA 6 has a VCP average of $103.25. I realize that this is almost double the value, but this is a unique example because it's Rizzuto. The #4 Priddy is a better example... there's hardly any premium associated with that card.
The NOF is more scare because it's part of the 7th print run.
nightcrawler: Thanks man, I just saved that to my hard drive and I'll upload it on the 15th. Cool idea!
bluemarlin: Thanks man. Maybe I will send it for some bumpage....
Anyone else think this is worthy of some .5 action? I was originallt thinking no because of all the soft corners... but as Lee said, the centering is pretty unbelievable.
I'd say it has a chance, but if it's for your collection and you like it just the way it is then why bother? It is a beauty without the .5, and I actually prefer high end cards like that one without the bump.
<< <i>I'd say it has a chance, but if it's for your collection and you like it just the way it is then why bother? It is a beauty without the .5, and I actually prefer high end cards like that one without the bump. >>
It is for my PC, but I'd like to get the most "value" out of it too. 7's are worth quite a bit more than 6's and the .5 would easily add a couple hundred dollars of value to this car (if the time ever comes to sell).
I appreciate your input though. I like the card the way it is too, but to get it graded appropriately would be awesome too.
This is only my opinion, but I think that card is in the highest holder it ill ever be in.
My reasons? The bottom right hand corner is weak even if one considers that most of that damage/flaw is caused by the ruff cut. The bottom left ditto. Also the top right is soft.
The centering is outstanding. Under the right eye appears some sort of blotch. Perhaps that is cuz the scan is so large? I dunno. Mine does not have that blotch.
Not to put this card down but it is possible that if it was sent in raw tomorrow it could get a.5 grade but it may be a 5.5.
All in all it is properly graded IMO I just do not see it as a 6.5.
But then again what do I know?
Bottom line here is that it is an outstanding true EX/MNT card.
Thanks for your response Steve. That was my original thought as well (above). I never really gave too much thought to the marking below his eye... that's really strange! I did some research and found a couple more examples with the marking though. Perhaps they had two runs of the second printing (cards 37 - 72)??
I'll have to do some more research on the print runs.
Some hypothesized you took your ball and went home, again.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>nice card; care to share why it's your dream card? >>
First off, thanks for all the replies guys! There's ben a whole page of them since I went to bed last night! Thanks for all the support!
And yes, I'd love to share why it's my dream card...
I havent even been collecting baseball cards for a year yet... my first ever card was a 1949 Bowman card last July (2007). That card inspired me to go for the whole 1949 Bowman Red Sox team set, which, in turn, inspired me to go for the whoel dang thing. At this point I knew absolutely nothing about the set, it's seven print-runs. The SNB/PNB or NOF/NNOF variations, etc.. so I had to do a lot of reading online.
In my research, I learned a lot about Jackie Robinson, both on and off the field. He was a great guy in both settings. He was also part of an historic part of American and baseball history, by breaking the color barrier in professionally-recognized sports. Of course there were others (Satchell Paige, Larry Doby, etc) but Jackie is the most widely-recognized figure in this movement. It inspired me.
Now, just being a regular guy with a modest salary, I thought I'd never be able to afford it. My most expensive card (prior to this one) was $200.00 for the Musial. It took a long time to save, and a lot of research online, and one just happened to pop up on the Bay. Not just any "one" though... this one... probably the nicest 6 I've ever seen. I've seen 7's that has less eye-appeal than this one. The grade itself wasnt as important as getting a great example of the card. Actually, there's a 3 on the Bay as we speak and it drips eye-appeal, but I'm sure it's got a crease that the scan doesnt pick up.
So when I saw this one, it was in my price range, it's an outstanding example, and I had the money saved up... so I pulled the trigger.
My fiancee knew how big a deal this was to me too. When I won the auction, she had a big smile on her face and said congratulations with a hug. It was cool!
Some may say, "Dude, it's cardboard"... but it's been my highest goal thus far in my short collecting days, and it's been realized... and it feels good!
I hope I didnt bore anybody :-)
<< <i>Great card and even better dealer to work with. >>
Definitely. Brent has been awesome via e-mail. This dealer is highly recommended.
Joe
1963 Fleer
Lou Brock Master Set
<< <i>Alan .......... Nice looking ' Rackie ' !!!!! Congrats on picking up your dream card ! ........................ Robbie
Thanks man! I appreciate it! "Rackie" should be here next week!
Did you get a scan of the back?
Assuming you did, especially at that price. Care to post it?
Lou
<< <i>The bottom left corner keeps it from being a 7, but you could probably pull a 6.5 due to centering. Very nice card. >>
Yeah and the top right as well.
Maybe I'll see if I can get some .5 bumpage?
<< <i>[
My fiancee knew how big a deal this was to me too. When I won the auction, she had a big smile on her face and said congratulations with a hug. It was cool!
/q]
Smart move buying your dream card BEFORE you say "I do".... If I was going to spend that much coin on one card...my wife would be saying "YOU DON'T."
Congrats..I am sure it feels great to get your dream card, but if you are like me....another dream card will take its place soon and the cycle starts over again! Enjoy!
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
Thanks man! Yes, the next goal is the Campanella Rookie from the same set, but it'll never trump this one :-)
<< <i>
<< <i>Congrats!!! I want that card!!! It's a beauty! chaz >>
Hey Chaz! I'm surprised you didnt say, "PSA 6 - Chaz" HAHAH
Thanks for your reply man, I appreciate it! >>
It crossed my mind (PSA 6. chaz) but I wanted to leave the honor up to you!! chaz
Good for you and that is a very nice example of a 6, your efforts have been rewarded!
Sweet looking 6....... Great pick up Alan.....Congrates
Paul, yeah, it's a cool feeling.
Now when I actually have it in my hands... then I'll start the official celebration :-)
Edited to add: That was meant as humor, nothing more.
Congrats and carry on.
<< <i>Please be sure to note that thread as "Official" so we're sure. Edited to add: That was meant as humor, nothing more. Congrats and carry on. >>
Thank you Gumby, I apprecaite your post.
Have a good night man.
I was reading another forum and it appears that this card has 2 distinct
reverses, a cream colored back (printed spring of 49) and a grayish back (printed summer of 49)
I just checked mine and it is from the first print run.
I'll post some scans in a moment.
Alan check yours to see what run yours was.
Steve
Notice the 2 distinct colors on these 2 cards?
Steve
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
I just happened upon a thread elsewhere and someone that had collected them as a kid mentioned this.
I then went to check my 49's and saw that I oo had 2 distinct reverses.
mayba Alan knows more and can enlighten us.
Steve
Wish I could do that.
anyway, this makes a great read:
1949 Bowman Baseball Complete Set: 240 or 252 Cards?
It is the purpose of this article to revisit the evolution of the 1949 Bowman Baseball Set and the memories it generates. Two great previous articles were written by Ted Zanidakis and Ralph Triplette in 1983 and 1998, a must read for the 1949 Bowman collector. (See reference 1 and 2).
It was the Spring of 1949 when the 1st Series of the 1949 Bowman baseball cards came onto the market.
I was eight years old and was attending Public School 69 in Jackson Heights, Queens, New York. The school was on 37th Avenue between 77th and 78th street. A sundries store was across the street from the school on the corner of 37th Ave. and 78th St. My twin brother, Roger and I would check everyday to see if new cards were being sold over the counter in the store. The 78th Street side of the building had a red brick wall with a wide sidewalk to the street. After school we would use the sidewalk and brick wall to "pitch" our baseball cards against the wall. They were a great size (2-1/6" x 2-1/2") to hold between the end of the middle finger and bottom of the palm, and we would "sail" them against the wall. Whoever was the closest to the wall would win the other boy's card, and a "leaner" on the wall would get paid double. Also, if you "covered" a card closer to the wall, you would win it.
We never thought about the "condition" of the cards, and the softer the corners the better for pitching and holding cards close to the wall. These cards were obviously "game worn" and you would think they would demand a premium in today's market as "game-worn" memorabilia (ha, ha, ha).
With that background of memories, let me relate what we didn't know then (or cared), on how the 1949 Bowman came into the market. There were 240 different players, and the cards were printed on seven sheets (7 series) of 36 cards with 4 rows of 9 cards; that's 7 x 36 = 252 cards. I will shortly explain the extra 12 cards.
The 1st printing consisted of the 1st and 2nd Series (two sheets of 36 cards each) for cards #1 through #73. There was no card #4. As a marketing ploy, Bowman left out card #4 and that position on sheet #1 was replaced by card #73- Billy Cox. I was not a "set collector" in 1949, and didn't notice the missing card #4, but many kids kept buying packs looking for a superstar as a card #4. These cards had no name on the front (NNOF) and the name on the back was printed (PNB). The first 72 cards used a white stock, then switched to a gray stock that was used throughout the remaining print runs. This created 72 white-back AND 72 gray-back cards for 72 variations (#1-3, 5-73). No one knows for sure as to whether the white backs or the gray backs are the more scarce, but from my experience in collecting both, I have found that gray backs are more difficult to find, but there has been no value added to the different backs.
During the Spring and Summer of 1949, the 2nd printing included the 3rd Series of 36 cards #74 through #108, plus the missing card #4. To the dismay of many, card #4 was not a superstar (i.e. Joe DiMaggio), but an infielder named Jerry Priddy with the St. Louis Browns; Jerry who? Bowman inserted #4-Priddy into the 73rd position of the 3rd sheet to complete the 1st Series. These cards also had no name on the front (NNOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB), as was the case for the first two Series.
The 3rd printing, in the Summer of 1949, included the 4th Series of 36 cards #109 through #144. This 4th Series changed from the first three Series in that the player's name was printed on the front of the card (NOF), and the name on the back was a simulated scripted autograph (SCR).
The 4th printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 5th Series of 36 cards #145 through #180. This 5th Series changed from the previous 4th Series in that the simulated scripted name on the back was returned to a name in print on the back (PNB), but the name on the front (NOF) was continued.
The 5th printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 6th Series of 36 cards #181 through #216. This 6th Series stayed the same as the previous 5th Series in that there was a printed name on the front (NOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB).
The 6th and last printing, in the Fall of 1949, included the 7th Series of 24 cards #217 through #240. The last sheet had room for 12 more players, but it was too late in the process to find 12 new players, so Bowman reached back to the 3rd Series for (6) cards: numbers 4, 78, 83, 85, 88 and 98. These cards were changed from having no name on the front (NNOF) to include a name on the front (NOF). The final six (6) cards came from the 4th Series with numbers 109, 124, 126,127,132 and 143. These cards were changed from having a scripted autograph on the back (SCR) to a name in print on the back (PNB). Consequently, all of the 7th Series cards have a printed name on the front (NOF) and a name in print on the back (PNB), as was the case for the previous 6th Series.
The Fall of 1949 printing (Series 5, 6 and 7) was not as plentiful as Series 1, 2, 3 or 4 as was the case for many sets of the '50s and '60s, when the "Boys of Summer" gave way to football as baseball interest waned. For the 1949 Bowman issue, these later Series are about twice as difficult to find as the first four Series cards, and include the even more difficult 7th Series variation cards.
Therefore, the complete set of 1949 Bowman includes 240 different players with 12 players repeated in different formats to complete the 7th Series for a total of 252 cards. And, if you consider the white and gray back variations, you could add 72 more cards for a master set of 324 cards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found on the internet/PSA ezine
Steve
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
according to that article.
Steve
I picked up Mr. Robinson from the PO this morning (missed the original delivery attempt yesterday).
My original plan was to send in for some .5 action, but now that I see it in person, I will not be sending it in. I knew the lower left corner was an issue, but as you can see in this large scan, all four corners are soft, and I dont think the centering is enough to get some bumpage.
I'm 100% content with the card though. This is probably the nicest 6 I've ever seen and I've been looking at this card for quite some time.
Here's the scan:
<< <i>Definitely 6.5 material. Might have to give it a few tries, but it will get bumped eventually. Centering is unbelievable. >>
Thanks Lee.. I agree, the centering is better than some $3,000.00 PSA 8's I've seen, but with all the post lately about corners being the main focus on bumpage, I wonder if I'll ever get it? Joe Orlando's comment seems to be more focused on centering, but recent sub results have proven otherwise.
I might hang on to it for a while till the graders get a better handle on the new system, then send it in. I'll be sure to keep the thread updated.
Thanks for your reply man!
<< <i>I wonder if Alan will collecting the set with all the variations? That would be tough to accomplish. I wonder if he knows what he is in for? >>
Yes, I know what I'm in for
The NOF/NNOF and SNB/PNB variations dont have a significant premium associated with them.
For instance, the #98 Phil Rizzuto NOF PSA 6 shows a VCP average of $198.89 and the NNOF PSA 6 has a VCP average of $103.25. I realize that this is almost double the value, but this is a unique example because it's Rizzuto. The #4 Priddy is a better example... there's hardly any premium associated with that card.
The NOF is more scare because it's part of the 7th print run.
This would be a nice avatar..................
That card has 6.5 written all over it!!
Jake
bluemarlin: Thanks man. Maybe I will send it for some bumpage....
Anyone else think this is worthy of some .5 action? I was originallt thinking no because of all the soft corners... but as Lee said, the centering is pretty unbelievable.
In this one I just wanted to congratulate you Alan on a great pickup.
I don't have anything that nice in the Robinson side of the house.
A beauty - good luck if you send it in for a bump!
mike
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>I'd say it has a chance, but if it's for your collection and you like it just the way it is then why bother? It is a beauty without the .5, and I actually prefer high end cards like that one without the bump. >>
It is for my PC, but I'd like to get the most "value" out of it too. 7's are worth quite a bit more than 6's and the .5 would easily add a couple hundred dollars of value to this car (if the time ever comes to sell).
I appreciate your input though. I like the card the way it is too, but to get it graded appropriately would be awesome too.
Stone: What's with the Garcia card?
<< <i>Stone: What's with the Garcia card? >>
Alan
Go back and check the post - I edited it - mixed up my threads.
Good luck on the regrade if you chose.
mike
Thanks for the kind words!
My reasons? The bottom right hand corner is weak even if one considers that most
of that damage/flaw is caused by the ruff cut. The bottom left ditto. Also the top right is soft.
The centering is outstanding. Under the right eye appears some sort of blotch. Perhaps that is cuz the scan is so large?
I dunno. Mine does not have that blotch.
Not to put this card down but it is possible that if it was sent in raw tomorrow it could get a.5 grade
but it may be a 5.5.
All in all it is properly graded IMO I just do not see it as a 6.5.
But then again what do I know?
Bottom line here is that it is an outstanding true EX/MNT card.
Steve
I'll have to do some more research on the print runs.
Similar (not so prominent) blotch:
Similar:
Some hypothesized you took your ball and went home, again.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!