When it's said a shop has silver in quantity I'm sure it's not over 50,000 OZt in most cases. On the world maket this can be absorbed in a millisecond or two. There are not large numbers of coin shops in the world and more than 25% are in this country.
If sellers are merely holding out for higher prices it would still be very bullish. I still have some difficulty imagining a merchant refusing to sell if he has the mat- erial but a general refusal to sell implies a very bullish attitude among these mer- chants which will most assuredly have an effect on price eventually.
The price of silver is now artificially depressed by the big boys and thier "shorts" or paper contracts driving the price lower to give the appearance of a "bust" - I am not much for these theories - but give the events of the last 2 weeks - I believe it to be close to the truth...
With the continued pressure of shorting the futures market, the prices drives lower very fast.
Whats amazing is that there isnt any quantities of bullion silver to be had from all the major wholesalers....
Some say they dont want to sell t lower levels.....which may be the case for SMALL B&M stores, but the BIG WHOLESALERS make money moving volume at ALL LEVELS.
To even think they are in "concert" with each other to withhold physical silver is hogwash.
I always thought if investors were covering their shorts the price goes up?
In the longer term I would agree.
Short term: not the way the Big Boys like Goldman and company play this game today. The can be short in Asia and then Long in London or NY. They play both sides of the fence. They can easily (with FED/PPT help) drive markets down for short periods by unloading their longs, and then reducing their shorts once prices are down. They can continue to pound away in this fashion (up and down) and attempt to drive the price down over time. They don't have to buy much or sell much to move the markets. With help from the PPT (such as last Monday), you can get the markets to go counter to what fundamentals suggest. It's the hidden value of the PPT that if you're playing against them short term, nothing is safe regardless of fundamentals. Last Mon-Tuesday's metal's movements were counter to what should have happened following a large rate cut, BSC failure, and Asia opening up with stocks getting hammered and metals flying...... but a helping hand from the FED/PPT "working group" does wonders to counter fundamentals.
<< <i>I always thought if investors were covering their shorts the price goes up? >>
Yes. They buy to cover.
But these guys are already bust and know it. Their only chance is to drive the price down to a level that they can cover. To do this they are trying to panic the longs by selling more silver they never had.
They got into this because they believed they could control the price forever for the benefit of the silver users and the enrichment of themselves but eventually the real world has to catch up with them. Their own actions are what will make this an event rather than a process. They've twarted the natural inclination of free markets to adjust to changing conditions.
This would be an explosive situation in any condition since human nature is always to change very gradually until larger changes are forced on us. They've exascer- bated this by making silver appear far more plentiful than it really is.
<< <i>So, it makes perfect sense for people holding physical silver not to be selling right now
when they know that there is an artificial drop in the price of silver.
I would say that this is bullish for silver and people should start buying paper on Monday.
>>
They'll sell paper which is bearish for silver but everyone is catching on and they won't be able to sell enough to affect anything but the futures market. (edited to add- which is why I believe the futures market will get clobbered)
The problem comes when settlement time comes and there's no silver. Fabricators and users need the metal to keep their companies running and can't operate on paper, changing rules, and shenanigans. A default will have far ranging consequences.
I disagree with a lot of what's been said in this thread. I don't perceive a "shortage" of silver; warehouse stocks haven't budged. Local availability may be affected because prices are volatile. That means dealers are trying to protect themselves by buying especially cheap and selling extra dear. If they can't do this then they won't play, they'll spend their time on the now-lucrative scrap precious metals business instead.
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
Same effect if the local sellers don't want to sell and buy into the future's market shenanigans. If they don't want to take the $3 loss then someone is gonna have to pay "ask" price at some point. The future's price can run all the back to $10 and silver will still stay in J6P's hands. It's like bidding for an UNC 1859-s quarter. You can ask $10,000 or $100,000, or more. Neither price is going to produce one for you.....so you might as well leave the price at $10,000 just in case someone, someday, shows up with one to sell to you.
Lack of Silver came to quick, ...there is no way dealers around the world could orchestrate this...The United States is in debt! Silver has value as well as Gold....
There are only five reasons for this: 1) Either all the Silver on the planet has been bought up! 2) The dealers purchased at a high rate and refuse to sell at a loss! 3) Banks could be dumping back into the market to pay off debts, but why would they dump for worthless dollars? 4) ETF's are faking us out to cover their short or need to purchase more silver at a lower price. 5)THE MINT SAYS THEY ARE ALL OUT of silver!
If 5 is the case then it is the US Government who orchestrated this...ETF's are caught short and need silver to cover so they are manipulating the share price to frighten the public into selling!
ETF's silver will come from a bank vault in London if and when they have the funds to purchase!
30 minutes after my earlier post, I got a call from somebody looking to sell (easter sunday mind you), he asked if I could come in today, and since our easter dinner is not until 2:00pm, I accomodated. I am not going to pass up a buying opp. So, I just bought 7k worth of 90% not 30 minutes ago. But since I bought it at the newer reduced price, I beleive I will hold on to it a few days to see what happens??
thats a half a bag of 90%, nothing like even small B&M shops are turning the last few weeks.
smaller B&M's are buying $50-$100K per week at least, one guy here locally doing $30K per day. And that is not big money.
find me the warehouse that has the quantities of silver, I would caution that those counts probably arent even current, it's gone goodbye.
keep telling yourself that there is ample quantities around, thn start making calls to buy 1000 oz troy in bars - or even a bag or two of 90%, good luck finding it.
I did the work, I made the calls, I dont just pontificate. They are SOLD OUT>>>>>>.
Don't hold it! Don't you know how dealers in 1980 went bust? Collectors and investors can buy and hold; dealers can't.
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
thats hardly loaded. There are regular guys I know that have "want lists" with at least 1,000 oz each on them. These are not wealthy guys either. And they aren;t getting filled.
<< <i>There are regular guys I know that have "want lists" with at least 1,000 oz each on them. These are not wealthy guys either. And they aren;t getting filled. >>
Damn I would not consider myself wealthy but definatly in middle class. I would love to have 17 to 20 grand laying around to throw down on silver..Have them call Tulsa Gold and Silver they had a bunch of 100oz bars Friday. .50 cent over spot per oz. I'm sure John would love to unload these..
Even a million dollars worth of silver is a drop in the bucket compared to total investment demand.
I don't think the question at this point is whether or not the corner shop has silver to sell. The ques- tion is whether this is a North American phenomenon or if it's world wide.
But keep in mind that even if this is strictly confined to this hemishere or even just to a large city, the entire extant quantity of silver can be bought up. Since it can be bought up and it appears it is being bought up then it's not illogical to suggest that this may be the case.
This isn't 1979 when a few individuals tried to corner the market. This isn't even really millions of indiv- iduals trying to corner the market. This may well be the end times for silver as a cheap weak sister to gold. This may be the time when people wake up and realize that silver is not only more important than most other commodities but it's also far scarcer on a dollar basis.
Perhaps this isn't it and somehow we're being thrown a red herring, but still the day is coming and when it does arrive there will probably be even less silver available which will mean even higher prices and more of our precious coins being destroyed.
Protect enough silver now and everyone won't have to collect clad in the future.
A quick check of fleabay and here's what's available:
100 oz bars: a few dozen auctions of single bars - mostly around $19.50/oz + delivery. Up to 3-5 bars available in some cases. The auctions may be starting at lower numbers but are ending much higher.
90% silver bags: couldn't find any that were legitimate. Bluemoon coins was selling survival packs and other garbage for multiples of spot. Way to go gals!
1000 oz bars: one seller with 3 bars - wanted $24.50/oz
Anything silver for over $10,000: all crap auctions and come-ons to entrap newbies. 10,000 BU Roosy dimes for $20,000+ (it's a bag of 720 oz silver that should be no more than $15K even at $20/oz) Bullion Direct had one auction for a 1000 oz bag. Maybe the only legit auction there.
Kitco is a shill for the large silver and gold commercial interests. Their site goes down when the metals are flying so I'm not surprised they will not show themselves out of 1000 oz bars. Their primary interest is to protect the guys that feed them. You don't think Kitco is there to protect the little guy do you or to engage in free market enterprise??
Comments
When it's said a shop has silver in quantity I'm sure it's not over 50,000 OZt in
most cases. On the world maket this can be absorbed in a millisecond or two.
There are not large numbers of coin shops in the world and more than 25% are
in this country.
If sellers are merely holding out for higher prices it would still be very bullish. I
still have some difficulty imagining a merchant refusing to sell if he has the mat-
erial but a general refusal to sell implies a very bullish attitude among these mer-
chants which will most assuredly have an effect on price eventually.
With the continued pressure of shorting the futures market, the prices drives lower very fast.
Whats amazing is that there isnt any quantities of bullion silver to be had from all the major wholesalers....
Some say they dont want to sell t lower levels.....which may be the case for SMALL B&M stores, but the BIG WHOLESALERS make money moving volume at ALL LEVELS.
To even think they are in "concert" with each other to withhold physical silver is hogwash.
<< <i>
To even think they are in "concert" with each other to withhold physical silver is hogwash. >>
This does strike me as absurd as well. Not only is it illegal but we'd have to believe the whole thing is orchestrated by the US mint.
I always thought if investors were covering their shorts the price goes up?
<< <i>I always thought if investors were covering their shorts the price goes up? >>
Unless the Shorts are with Silver and they're trying to dump their contracts quickly.
In the longer term I would agree.
Short term: not the way the Big Boys like Goldman and company play this game today. The can be short in Asia and then Long in London or NY. They play both sides of the fence. They can easily (with FED/PPT help) drive markets down for short periods by unloading their longs, and then reducing their shorts once prices are down. They can continue to pound away in this fashion (up and down) and attempt to drive the price down over time. They don't have to buy much or sell much to move the markets. With help from the PPT (such as last Monday), you can get the markets to go counter to what fundamentals suggest. It's the hidden value of the PPT that if you're playing against them short term, nothing is safe regardless of fundamentals. Last Mon-Tuesday's metal's movements were counter to what should have happened following a large rate cut, BSC failure, and Asia opening up with stocks getting hammered and metals flying...... but a helping hand from the FED/PPT "working group" does wonders to counter fundamentals.
roadrunner
<< <i>I always thought if investors were covering their shorts the price goes up? >>
Yes. They buy to cover.
But these guys are already bust and know it. Their only chance is to drive the
price down to a level that they can cover. To do this they are trying to panic the
longs by selling more silver they never had.
They got into this because they believed they could control the price forever for
the benefit of the silver users and the enrichment of themselves but eventually
the real world has to catch up with them. Their own actions are what will make
this an event rather than a process. They've twarted the natural inclination of
free markets to adjust to changing conditions.
This would be an explosive situation in any condition since human nature is always
to change very gradually until larger changes are forced on us. They've exascer-
bated this by making silver appear far more plentiful than it really is.
So, it makes perfect sense for people holding physical silver not to be selling right now
when they know that there is an artificial drop in the price of silver.
I would say that this is bullish for silver and people should start buying paper on Monday.
<< <i>So, it makes perfect sense for people holding physical silver not to be selling right now
when they know that there is an artificial drop in the price of silver.
I would say that this is bullish for silver and people should start buying paper on Monday.
They'll sell paper which is bearish for silver but everyone is catching on and they won't be able to sell enough to affect anything but the futures market. (edited to add- which is why I believe the futures market will get clobbered)
The problem comes when settlement time comes and there's no silver. Fabricators and users need the metal to keep their companies running and can't operate on paper, changing rules, and shenanigans. A default will have far ranging consequences.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
roadrunner
There are only five reasons for this:
1) Either all the Silver on the planet has been bought up!
2) The dealers purchased at a high rate and refuse to sell at a loss!
3) Banks could be dumping back into the market to pay off debts, but why would they dump for worthless dollars?
4) ETF's are faking us out to cover their short or need to purchase more silver at a lower price.
5)THE MINT SAYS THEY ARE ALL OUT of silver!
If 5 is the case then it is the US Government who orchestrated this...ETF's are caught short and need silver to cover so they are manipulating the share price to frighten the public into selling!
ETF's silver will come from a bank vault in London if and when they have the funds to purchase!
SOOOOOOOOO you got silver? Hummmm!
Jim
smaller B&M's are buying $50-$100K per week at least, one guy here locally doing $30K per day. And that is not big money.
find me the warehouse that has the quantities of silver, I would caution that those counts probably arent even current, it's gone goodbye.
keep telling yourself that there is ample quantities around, thn start making calls to buy 1000 oz troy in bars - or even a bag or two of 90%, good luck finding it.
I did the work, I made the calls, I dont just pontificate. They are SOLD OUT>>>>>>.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
thats hardly loaded. There are regular guys I know that have "want lists" with at least 1,000 oz each on them. These are not wealthy guys either. And they aren;t getting filled.
..........................................
Agree.
Folks who listen to the cheerleaders are destined to lose ALOT of money.
<< <i>There are regular guys I know that have "want lists" with at least 1,000 oz each on them. These are not wealthy guys either. And they aren;t getting filled. >>
Damn I would not consider myself wealthy but definatly in middle class. I would love to have 17 to 20 grand laying around to throw down on silver..Have them call Tulsa Gold and Silver they had a bunch of 100oz bars Friday. .50 cent over spot per oz. I'm sure John would love to unload these..
I don't think the question at this point is whether or not the corner shop has silver to sell. The ques-
tion is whether this is a North American phenomenon or if it's world wide.
But keep in mind that even if this is strictly confined to this hemishere or even just to a large city, the
entire extant quantity of silver can be bought up. Since it can be bought up and it appears it is being
bought up then it's not illogical to suggest that this may be the case.
This isn't 1979 when a few individuals tried to corner the market. This isn't even really millions of indiv-
iduals trying to corner the market. This may well be the end times for silver as a cheap weak sister to
gold. This may be the time when people wake up and realize that silver is not only more important than
most other commodities but it's also far scarcer on a dollar basis.
Perhaps this isn't it and somehow we're being thrown a red herring, but still the day is coming and when
it does arrive there will probably be even less silver available which will mean even higher prices and more
of our precious coins being destroyed.
Protect enough silver now and everyone won't have to collect clad in the future.
100 oz bars: a few dozen auctions of single bars - mostly around
$19.50/oz + delivery. Up to 3-5 bars available in some cases.
The auctions may be starting at lower numbers but are ending
much higher.
90% silver bags: couldn't find any that were legitimate. Bluemoon coins was selling survival packs and other garbage for multiples of spot. Way to go gals!
1000 oz bars: one seller with 3 bars - wanted $24.50/oz
Anything silver for over $10,000: all crap auctions and come-ons
to entrap newbies. 10,000 BU Roosy dimes for $20,000+ (it's a bag of 720 oz silver that should be no more than $15K even at $20/oz)
Bullion Direct had one auction for a 1000 oz bag. Maybe the only legit auction there.
roadrunner
Kitco is showing 1000oz bars in inventory.
roadrunner
Eek.