What is going on with silver?
Michigan
Posts: 4,942 ✭
Something I found.
(If you don't hold it, you don't own it)
Three more major silver dealers are reported to be out of silver today: The U.S. Mint, Kitco, and Monex. This, on top of the major dealers yesterday, Amark, Perth Mint, CNI Numismatics, and APMEX, all reported sold out. Further, nearly all of Canada is reported to be out of silver, from Vancouver to Toronto.
This is unprecedented, and is a perfect case of market manipulation in the paper market at COMEX and other futures exchanges to see silver prices continue to drop down to below $17/oz. today. Paper promises can be created endlessly, but real silver cannot.
This is NOT a case of the dealers getting spooked, and selling out to the refiners just in time, at peak prices. This is a case of the public buying up the stock at coin shops across the world ever since gold hit $1000/oz.. That event finally sparked a little of the public's buying of silver and gold. Thus, the typical coin shop flow of silver to the refiners just stopped in the last few weeks, and especially the last two days.
This is NOT a case of the public creating a top with 'everyone' in silver, because nobody's in silver yet. In 2006, only $1 billion was spent on investment silver, which is 0.007% of the $13.5 trillion of money in the banks. As I have long reported, the silver market is so small, there is no room for new investor demand, not even 0.1% of money could be spent on silver, because that would be $13 billion, which would push silver prices to $200/oz., and we are seeing only the tiniest beginnings of that.
$13 billion would be almost enough to buy all the silver produced by the mines in one year, which would leave nothing for industry. It would essentially double demand, but supply would remain the same.
Furthermore, this is not a top because the public continues to get to the coin shops, and is now getting on waiting lists for silver. The public is not yet in, so how can the price drop?
This is a case of price fixing and manipulation, like communism. Sausage is reported to cost 1 link per ruble, but there is no sausage. Silver price is quoted, but there is little to no silver.
Shortages are evidence of price fixing. Price fixing results in shortages. They are price fixing silver at a below market price over on the paper exchanges in New York and around the world.
How long can it go on? Until people stop trusting the paper exchanges, which could be after they default and fail to deliver silver. Or we could see a severe backwardation, as people refuse to trust and buy futures contracts, which would thus sell at a discount to real silver. Then, the spot price will really go up, maybe about double or more very quickly.
Regarding Monex and Kitco:
Monex has a shortage of 100 oz bars and silver eagles. They say that they are 5-7 days behind on orders for 100 oz bars and at least 10 days behind on silver eagle orders.
"This message has been placed on KITCO's buying board in large red letters. TT
IMPORTANT: Due to the volatility of the market, we are experiencing a significant increase in the volume of products that are being sold to Kitco. Although Kitco and HSBC Bank are working hard to stay on top of this, you may experience a delay in your package being processed. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and appreciate your patience and understanding."
bulliondirect says:
High Activity Market Alert
The precious metals industry is experiencing a substantial surge in activity which may increase the possibility of logistical delays; including customer service response time and product processing (incoming and outgoing). Our goal is to keep our prices competitive while still delivering an exceptional transaction experience.
I now have 4 pages of reports that I posted to my member's forum, from people saying that dealers around the world are out. Here is a summary of their comments:
Apmex out.
CNI out.
One in the UK.
One in New Port Richy, Florida.
Ebay is selling silver over spot.
Toronto out except overpriced Eagles and Maples.
Kitco in Montreal is out of Silver Maples.
Local shop in Victoria BC is out of all bullion.
Mexico City's "Consultoria casa de cambio" is out of bullion.
There is no silver for sale in eastern Canada.
Perth Mint is out.
A world class gold and silver bullion dealer in Dubai, Lakhoo Jewelry, is almost out.
Most Utah coin shops say there is a critical shortage of silver available for purchase in Utah.
(Johnson Matthey, the largest refiner, is in Utah!)
www.argentarius.de , there where 637 Mexican Libertad still left. Now, two hours later: nothing.
We could not find silver in canada from two days now.
Conejo Coin and Stamp run out of 100 oz silver bars too.
I just cleaned out the last 25 oz. of silver at my local coin shop.
scotia bank told me that they have no silver for about 2 days now.
Camino Coin of Burlingame, CA says, There seems to be a silver shortage.
In the Detroit, Michigan area, very few coin shops have any, I got the last 2 bars at one shop.
Bulliondirect having trouble mostly with Silver Eagles and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs.
The US Mint has said they are out of silver eagles - at least for a few weeks.
Portland, OR, Alder Gold Exchange., just a few bars, bought them out.
The dealers in Vancouver are offering 100 oz bars at $1875 preorder, but we wont get them for months.
==============
Paul Mladjenovic, author of Precious Metals for Dummies, said to me today, the following about the current price manipulation and shortage of real silver:
Outside of Oil, there is no other commodity with more diversified uses. Silver will probably hit $50/oz. within 3 years, and exceed its all time high on an inflation adjusted basis ($150-$350/oz.) and hit tripple digits by the early part of the next decade.
Everything has a natural and artifical price, and an artificial low price stimulates demand, and creates shortages, but the false appearance of plenty, which will blindside those in the paper markets.
Artifical intervention only works in the short term, whereas natural supply and demand forces always triumph in the long term.
==============
(If you don't hold it, you don't own it)
Three more major silver dealers are reported to be out of silver today: The U.S. Mint, Kitco, and Monex. This, on top of the major dealers yesterday, Amark, Perth Mint, CNI Numismatics, and APMEX, all reported sold out. Further, nearly all of Canada is reported to be out of silver, from Vancouver to Toronto.
This is unprecedented, and is a perfect case of market manipulation in the paper market at COMEX and other futures exchanges to see silver prices continue to drop down to below $17/oz. today. Paper promises can be created endlessly, but real silver cannot.
This is NOT a case of the dealers getting spooked, and selling out to the refiners just in time, at peak prices. This is a case of the public buying up the stock at coin shops across the world ever since gold hit $1000/oz.. That event finally sparked a little of the public's buying of silver and gold. Thus, the typical coin shop flow of silver to the refiners just stopped in the last few weeks, and especially the last two days.
This is NOT a case of the public creating a top with 'everyone' in silver, because nobody's in silver yet. In 2006, only $1 billion was spent on investment silver, which is 0.007% of the $13.5 trillion of money in the banks. As I have long reported, the silver market is so small, there is no room for new investor demand, not even 0.1% of money could be spent on silver, because that would be $13 billion, which would push silver prices to $200/oz., and we are seeing only the tiniest beginnings of that.
$13 billion would be almost enough to buy all the silver produced by the mines in one year, which would leave nothing for industry. It would essentially double demand, but supply would remain the same.
Furthermore, this is not a top because the public continues to get to the coin shops, and is now getting on waiting lists for silver. The public is not yet in, so how can the price drop?
This is a case of price fixing and manipulation, like communism. Sausage is reported to cost 1 link per ruble, but there is no sausage. Silver price is quoted, but there is little to no silver.
Shortages are evidence of price fixing. Price fixing results in shortages. They are price fixing silver at a below market price over on the paper exchanges in New York and around the world.
How long can it go on? Until people stop trusting the paper exchanges, which could be after they default and fail to deliver silver. Or we could see a severe backwardation, as people refuse to trust and buy futures contracts, which would thus sell at a discount to real silver. Then, the spot price will really go up, maybe about double or more very quickly.
Regarding Monex and Kitco:
Monex has a shortage of 100 oz bars and silver eagles. They say that they are 5-7 days behind on orders for 100 oz bars and at least 10 days behind on silver eagle orders.
"This message has been placed on KITCO's buying board in large red letters. TT
IMPORTANT: Due to the volatility of the market, we are experiencing a significant increase in the volume of products that are being sold to Kitco. Although Kitco and HSBC Bank are working hard to stay on top of this, you may experience a delay in your package being processed. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and appreciate your patience and understanding."
bulliondirect says:
High Activity Market Alert
The precious metals industry is experiencing a substantial surge in activity which may increase the possibility of logistical delays; including customer service response time and product processing (incoming and outgoing). Our goal is to keep our prices competitive while still delivering an exceptional transaction experience.
I now have 4 pages of reports that I posted to my member's forum, from people saying that dealers around the world are out. Here is a summary of their comments:
Apmex out.
CNI out.
One in the UK.
One in New Port Richy, Florida.
Ebay is selling silver over spot.
Toronto out except overpriced Eagles and Maples.
Kitco in Montreal is out of Silver Maples.
Local shop in Victoria BC is out of all bullion.
Mexico City's "Consultoria casa de cambio" is out of bullion.
There is no silver for sale in eastern Canada.
Perth Mint is out.
A world class gold and silver bullion dealer in Dubai, Lakhoo Jewelry, is almost out.
Most Utah coin shops say there is a critical shortage of silver available for purchase in Utah.
(Johnson Matthey, the largest refiner, is in Utah!)
www.argentarius.de , there where 637 Mexican Libertad still left. Now, two hours later: nothing.
We could not find silver in canada from two days now.
Conejo Coin and Stamp run out of 100 oz silver bars too.
I just cleaned out the last 25 oz. of silver at my local coin shop.
scotia bank told me that they have no silver for about 2 days now.
Camino Coin of Burlingame, CA says, There seems to be a silver shortage.
In the Detroit, Michigan area, very few coin shops have any, I got the last 2 bars at one shop.
Bulliondirect having trouble mostly with Silver Eagles and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs.
The US Mint has said they are out of silver eagles - at least for a few weeks.
Portland, OR, Alder Gold Exchange., just a few bars, bought them out.
The dealers in Vancouver are offering 100 oz bars at $1875 preorder, but we wont get them for months.
==============
Paul Mladjenovic, author of Precious Metals for Dummies, said to me today, the following about the current price manipulation and shortage of real silver:
Outside of Oil, there is no other commodity with more diversified uses. Silver will probably hit $50/oz. within 3 years, and exceed its all time high on an inflation adjusted basis ($150-$350/oz.) and hit tripple digits by the early part of the next decade.
Everything has a natural and artifical price, and an artificial low price stimulates demand, and creates shortages, but the false appearance of plenty, which will blindside those in the paper markets.
Artifical intervention only works in the short term, whereas natural supply and demand forces always triumph in the long term.
==============
0
Comments
I knew it would happen.
Your comments are always insightful and informative. Just like Brett Farve, a no nonsense, tell it like it is kind of guy. Keep up the good work!
With your find, I called Southland in Lake Charles and they too are nearly out except for the Silver Philharmonics, which I got some of, and they say the Mint is out of 2008 Silver Eagles thus they cannot quote a price until Monday or later. They expect shipment by late next week yet anticipate "a large premium" on the Eagles. I guess that will depend on spot price as I believe many dealers are wary of selling too low and depleting a valuable commodity that may pay better (or more accurate) dividends later. One of my local B&M's would sell Eagles but at a very steep premium ($22.00 per coin!) "as I already lost money and I don't want to lose more."
So I appreciate the research you compiled!
Miles
I'm slowly accumulating silver in hand, not paper, and your comments on that are insightful. Like a lot of other people, I've been trying to buy silver halves on eBay that are in G condition, well worn and not interesting to any collectors. As you get closer to the inherent value, poof! I've been outbid on a bunch of them.
Time to buy another 10 oz bar!
Cheers!
Bob
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>Interesting news? Haven't seen this type of action since the Hunt brothers cornered the market back in the 80's. >>
Welcome aboard.
This time it really is different. This isn't the effect of one or two
buyers gobbling up all the silver, it's the entire world out looking
to buy. This is very frightening when you consider that most of
the biggest silver holders have nothing but a piece of paper that
has no value if there's no silver to pay it.
Still silver is looked at as a backward investment by almost all the
financial experts and even many commodity buyers hold silver in
low esteem.
Here is an excerpt from Butler.
<< <i>...Even compared to gold, where the four largest traders now hold a larger concentrated gold net short position than at any point in history, at 17.4 million ounces, the silver short position is unprecedented and, quite frankly, an abomination. I don’t know how the regulators at the CFTC and NYMEX can live with themselves for allowing this obvious manipulation to continue. And it is shameful to think the government regulators swore an oath to uphold the law. (News that the Chicago Merc has formally agreed to absorb the NYMEX, brings another party into the manipulation. More on that in the future.)... >>
<< <i>
<< <i>...Even compared to gold, where the four largest traders now hold a larger concentrated gold net short position than at any point in history, at 417.4 million ounces, the silver short position is unprecedented and, quite frankly, an abomination. I don’t know how the regulators at the CFTC and NYMEX can live with themselves for allowing this obvious manipulation to continue. And it is shameful to think the government regulators swore an oath to uphold the law. (News that the Chicago Merc has formally agreed to absorb the NYMEX, brings another party into the manipulation. More on that in the future.)... >>
>>
I didn't notice his typo here. It should read 417 million ounces.
But whatever the reason... folks.... THERE IS NO SILVER OUT THERE. WHERE IS IT?
I see this as a time to hold fast with what I have in physical possession. I doubt this manipulation will have an effect for long.... expect the price to climb rapidly? If I was a holder of any paper related to silver.... I would be feeling mighty uncomforable right now. It appears someone, somewhere is taking possession of theirs...... and others may be left holding the empty bags.
<< <i>Thanks for the summary of "action" Michigan!
With your find, I called Southland in Lake Charles and they too are nearly out except for the Silver Philharmonics, which I got some of, and they say the Mint is out of 2008 Silver Eagles thus they cannot quote a price until Monday or later. They expect shipment by late next week yet anticipate "a large premium" on the Eagles. I guess that will depend on spot price as I believe many dealers are wary of selling too low and depleting a valuable commodity that may pay better (or more accurate) dividends later. One of my local B&M's would sell Eagles but at a very steep premium ($22.00 per coin!) "as I already lost money and I don't want to lose more."
So I appreciate the research you compiled!
Miles >>
Do you have a web address for southland? a phone # How much do they charge for shipping?
Thanks!
Mitch
<< <i>Great post! Even greater information on the back room manipulation of the metal. I figured the drop from $20+ to $17 was profit taking, but I'm always suspicious of the big boys and their manipulation of everything.
I'm slowly accumulating silver in hand, not paper, and your comments on that are insightful. Like a lot of other people, I've been trying to buy silver halves on eBay that are in G condition, well worn and not interesting to any collectors. As you get closer to the inherent value, poof! I've been outbid on a bunch of them.
Time to buy another 10 oz bar!
Cheers!
Bob >>
I don't think this price drop is due to profit taking.... if it was, that would mean there was a supply of silver out there from the individuals doing the selling. (unless this is ALL just paper trading and cashing in)
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Guys if one is buying silver which is better...the bullion coins or the bars like Engelhard etc? >>
Better for what? pricing? best value is probably junk silver, and generic bars or rounds. Engelhard and JM add a nice premium over other brands.
I did a cursory reading of the SLV Prospectus last weekend, and based upon my reading, I sold all of my SLV on Monday. I'm glad I did.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Guess it's time for a few major players to call in and request their paper be redeemed for silver. That should jack the price up a bit. >>
When the major longs do decide to take delivery, all they are gonna get is paper IOUs, or fiat currency. Maybe they should settle in Euros, LOL.
<< <i>Guys if one is buying silver which is better...the bullion coins or the bars like Engelhard etc? >>
At this point.... it looks like any that you can find is the one to get!!
IMO both are very good.... US 90% silver is very well recognized and easy to resell. The bars are also desirable by a very well known name, but in the past.... it has once in awhile happened that there are fake bars when the market heats up (silver plated base metals, etc), so one does have to keep aware of this possibility. At this time, I have not been hearing of that happening very much. (for now)
<< <i>Guess it's time for a few major players to call in and request their paper be redeemed for silver. That should jack the price up a bit. I did a cursory reading of the SLV Prospectus last weekend, and based upon my reading, I sold all of my SLV on Monday. I'm glad I did. >>
Yeah, I think those ETFs are bogus. I seriously doubt they have the bullion in their vaults to back up the shares.
We've been talking about the ETF's as an extension of the gold and silver cartels (and PPT/FED). What better a tool to stampede the market than to sell paper SLV shares, then buy back real silver for much less. Worked like a charm until the past few days. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in a paper silver ETF today. I think the risk of trading for 5-10% profits in this stock was just exposed. The downside is potentially very large. What would you rather have during a flood? A boat or..... a piece of paper stating you have the inalienable right to buy a boat for XXX dollars?
Great post Michigan. I was not in the loop on this one today.
roadrunner
<< <i>Guys if one is buying silver which is better...the bullion coins or the bars like Engelhard etc? >>
If you check the completed listings for Engelhard at ebay, people are still paying way over spot for them, even with the recent drop in the silver price.
<< <i>
<< <i>Great post! Even greater information on the back room manipulation of the metal. I figured the drop from $20+ to $17 was profit taking, but I'm always suspicious of the big boys and their manipulation of everything.
I'm slowly accumulating silver in hand, not paper, and your comments on that are insightful. Like a lot of other people, I've been trying to buy silver halves on eBay that are in G condition, well worn and not interesting to any collectors. As you get closer to the inherent value, poof! I've been outbid on a bunch of them.
Time to buy another 10 oz bar!
Cheers!
Bob >>
I don't think this price drop is due to profit taking.... if it was, that would mean there was a supply of silver out there from the individuals doing the selling. (unless this is ALL just paper trading and cashing in) >>
No, I didn't mean actual silver being sold for profit taking. Rather, the ETFs and futures traders, etc.
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
Tyler
i have some Favre rookie cards (91 UD series 1) if you want one or three PM me. or a the Montana/Sanders promo cards...your PM is off
commodities at 30X to 100X to each dollar. The banks and lenders
have tightened up to 10 to 1 or less. This means that the margin
requirements have been, in effect raised and the hedge funds had
to sell off assets to cover. Thus in spite of a shortage of silver, the
speculative pricing is being squeezed out of the market. No one really
knows how much that will actually represent.
Camelot
The spread on 90% always increases exponentially with the metals rise. It's always been that way and I suspect it always will be.
.999 refined will stick much closer to the actual spot price.
Given a choice, I'll always take .999 refined over 90% coins. To be fair, I do keep a few bags of 90% coins stashed away, but the vast majority of my holdings are in .999 refined.
However, as we are now seeing, actual physical silver is quite a bit rarer than we have been led to believe. Therefore, any type of silver is a good deal right now.
You can always buy paper silver, but as we we now know, that isn't always the case with the physical.
I think we can expect silver to rocket upwards very quickly after the dust settles on this last effort by the paper shorts to save their sorry hides.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Even tulving is sold out. They were selling $500 junk silver bags at .50 cents BELOW spot about two weeks back. I better go check my safe and make sure my silver is still there and that it hasn't disappeared somehow.
Tyler >>
There may be a lot of Ag evaporating in the next few months.
Perhaps it can be turned to white powder without any alchemy.
<< <i>Even tulving is sold out. They were selling $500 junk silver bags at .50 cents BELOW spot about two weeks back. I better go check my safe and make sure my silver is still there and that it hasn't disappeared somehow.
Tyler >>
Even that wasn't a great deal. I could buy for less elsewhere. 90% coins have a large spread back of spot and the higher silver goes, the greater that spread will be.
They also may have been over stocked and were dumping. I don't keep track of their prices regularly.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
If there is a speculative shortage of silver, the so-called market is just fantasy.
Camelot
<< <i>The hedge funds have been leveraging silver and other
commodities at 30X to 100X to each dollar. The banks and lenders
have tightened up to 10 to 1 or less. This means that the margin
requirements have been, in effect raised and the hedge funds had
to sell off assets to cover. Thus in spite of a shortage of silver, the
speculative pricing is being squeezed out of the market. No one really
knows how much that will actually represent. >>
Bear; There is apparently a divergence developing between the physical price and
the spot price. This is caused by manipulation. When the LME defaulted on nickel
contracts last year they were melting down stainless steel high denomination coins
to retrieve the little bit of nickel in them in India. The cost of the metal was extremely
high but they could make enough product to recover the cost.
Nickel has a wide range of uses but not nearly so wide as silver. More importantly it
can be replaced or reduced in almost every single one of its applications. Even the
products made with nickel can usually be substituted if the price is high enough. There
is lots of nickel in the world and few large producers. When the default occured most
manufacturers simply changed the way they did things to use less nickel.
There are also exceedingly few investors in nickel. The physical metal requires a huge
amount of storage space. Nickel has never been a monetary metal despite its impor-
tant properties because it is far too common. The default in nickel was a virtual non-
event which surprised me in its insignificance.
Silver is a whole 'nother story. Most of its applications use very tiny amounts of metal
and nothing else can be substituted. This means demand is relatively independent of
price. Most of the silver ever mined in world history is gone; used up in industrial pro-
cesses. It has been a monetary metal since money was invented 2700 years ago until
only very recently. The main reason large investors don't buy is that it requires a great
deal of room to store but this problem has been taking care of itself the last couple years.
If there really does develop a difference in spot price and what metal actually trades for
then almost all trading of physical metal and good paper will simply flee the market for
paper silver. If you need a gallon of milk why buy an IOU for a dollar when the product
is available for $3? If you're selling a gallon of milk, why sell it to a debtor for $1 when
the market will pay $3?
Silver isn't nickel. A default here would have far flung consequences. The value of the to-
tal amount of silver in existence represents a few minutes trade of the world markets. If
this metal is increasingly seen as a monetary metal then it will disappear almost overnight
someday. There is only about enough silver for everyone to have 1/4 ounce.
Even a severe recession might not avert a new valuation for silver. Most of the production
is a byproduct of other mining. If demand for other metals plummets then mining will fall
off and silver production would decrease even in the face of soaring demand.
Pls.PM me the day you sell ...
<< <i>Silver isn't nickel. A default here would have far flung consequences. The value of the to-
tal amount of silver in existence represents a few minutes trade of the world markets. If
this metal is increasingly seen as a monetary metal then it will disappear almost overnight
someday. There is only about enough silver for everyone to have 1/4 ounce. >>
Where did you get this figure from?
I researched that and according to 2000 figures it was 6.82 ounces per person.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_00/mbutler031900.html
I'd be interested in knowing the source of that figure.
<< <i>There may be a lot of Ag evaporating in the next few months.
Isn't that one of the effects of global warming? Perhaps they will offer carbon offsets in place of silver!
<< <i>>>>>Whenever I sell silver, the price explodes usually just a day or 2 after.<<<<<<
Pls.PM me the day you sell ...
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
.....and i don't think that only Joe Lunchbox "shops" there. (eBay)
IMHO
<< <i>i know that eBay is not the 'be all end all for setting PM prices', yet it seems the drop in PM on COMEX has NOT afffected the physical maket much .....and i don't think that only Joe Lunchbox "shops" there. (eBay) IMHO
If you look at the completed auctions for silver eagle rolls, they are still bidding them up as if spot silver is $19-$20.
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver isn't nickel. A default here would have far flung consequences. The value of the to-
tal amount of silver in existence represents a few minutes trade of the world markets. If
this metal is increasingly seen as a monetary metal then it will disappear almost overnight
someday. There is only about enough silver for everyone to have 1/4 ounce. >>
Where did you get this figure from?
I researched that and according to 2000 figures it was 6.82 ounces per person;
Link
I'd be interested in knowing the source of that figure. >>
It's an interesting compilation of data but it is speculative as is my number.
Their cumulative production to 1900 looks very high and their production
since 1975 also looks suspect. Figures I've seen suggest about 26 billion
ounces to 1980.
Admittedly the 1/4 Ounce estimate is at the extremely low side and probably
ignores a significant amount of fabricated silver but large amounts of this
silver are not available for other uses. While 19th century tea sets might be
melted if the price were high enough we won't see important and rare items
hitting the melting pot at any foreseeable price. ie- they may as well not be
silver and for this practical purpose, are not.
The 1.3 billion ounce number is mostly 999 bar and what can readily be convert-
ed to this form in a timely fashion.
I don't trust this guy's numbers and they lack some internal consistency. World
population is up 50% since the '75 and there is significantly less silver in the
world yet he shows only a nominal decrease in the amount per person. His num-
bers look far worse for gold. He appears to be trying to make a case that gold
is far scarcer than silver. This hasn't been true in a long time.
Counting coin and most fabricated silver including jewelry and items that would
be melted at substantially higher prices there is probably much more silver than
I said. It's very difficult to make extremely good estimates for this number simply
because there is a very great difficulty in knowing how much has been consumed
over the centuries. When I was a child there was silver foil available in the super-
markets. This was sterling if memory serves and my guess is that well over 99.9%
of it no longer exists. Estimating the amount from film washed down the rivers is
difficult. Even my estimate of the amount of surviving US coin has been revised
downward in recent months in light of US mint figures for numbers melted each
year. Then there is normal attrition. Silver is destroyed every time a house burns
down or a river floods.
Many experts cite lower estimates than mine. Consider my number hyperbole if
you wish but it might be a reasonable number for temporal effective supply.
P.S. I am still buying
<< <i>
<< <i>i know that eBay is not the 'be all end all for setting PM prices', yet it seems the drop in PM on COMEX has NOT afffected the physical maket much
.....and i don't think that only Joe Lunchbox "shops" there. (eBay)
IMHO
If you look at the completed auctions for silver eagle rolls, they are still bidding them up as if spot silver is $19-$20. >>
Yes, what do you attribute to the continued higher mark-up, particulalry with the 2008 Eagles, on ebay?
Typically ebay reacts quickly to price differences, yet, here and now, the prices remain static with a $3.00 drop in the price of SLV.
It does appear some of the premiums in say 1986 Eagles has decreased in the last week, due to the rarity.
Damn, the buy it now's remain very high (many over $500 per roll!)
Miles