Just proves it's a 24/7 world whether the doors or open or not. Will be interesting to see what tomorrow, or even tonight brings as a result of all this.
Don't worry, this is about as ON-TOPIC as it gets. It will have ramifications in all our coin pursuits.
A British billionaire with a 9.6% stake in Bear lost a cool $800 MILL. Chalk up some more $$ TRILLIONs in risk to JPM's hedgebook. What's another few on top of $77 TRILLION.
Start counting to 550 TRILLION. That's how big it will get.
It should now be starting to sink in to many, just what the magnitude of this really is. The system truely is teetering, and there was no real choice except for the Fed and the other banks to bail out Bear Stearns.
If Bear Stearns went under, other institutions that are holding paper connected to Bear Stearns would then be in trouble. A domino effect was/is very likely. All of these banks/brokerages are tied in with each other. One gets in trouble and they are all at risk.
Also, if the populace gets really worried after hearing about Bear Stearns, it will not take much of a run on the other banks to put them in trouble.
The 'bailout' of Bear Stearns (by the cheap purchase of $2 per share instead of the $30 per share that they closed at on Friday) does not end the teetering. This will be an interesting week, to see what investors do. If they panic, the banks (and our system) is in deep trouble.
Anyone out there still burying their heads in the sand?
Not a surprise there. JPM was providing Bear with access to the discount window (Bear can't play b/c they are not a traditional bank). I guess when Bear opened their books, everyone panicked.
$2 a share is a disaster and some serious wealth destruction.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow!! And the Fed just cut rates by a quarter! Man, when did Sunday become a weekday?
Miles >>
Yup, I was just about to post that. They are in a panic. On a SUNDAY!!
IMHO, the problem doesn't lie in the banks not having enough money to lend...the problem lies in a population that has run out of credit and cannot borrow any more money because they're tapped out. I think that the bandages that the Fed and our government are supplying are not being applied to the right place.
On another note, on one day we've got the president saying that a government should not provide too much help...link.
The next day you have the Treasury Secretary saying that the government will do whatever it has to do to stabilize the markets...link.
It's apparent that these people don't know what they're doing.
<< <i>Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around??
roadrunner >>
In theory it is. I'd say there probably a few safe ones to purchase-many more might find themselves in trouble if they are anywhere along the domino trail.
<< <i>Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around??
roadrunner >>
I think it is a little too soon yet. Too much to come yet. If you buy in now, chances are good you will lose a good portion before you start to make any gains. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th quarter....
<< <i>I think it is a little too soon yet. Too much to come yet. If you buy in now, chances are good you will lose a good portion before you start to make any gains. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th quarter.... >>
<< Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around?? roadrunner >>
Sure it is. You coulda bought Bears Stearns for $30 on Friday. At it's peek it went for $160. But then again since JP Morgan bought Stearns for $2 a share today, you woulda lost just a little bit of money. But hey, there's still other banks. Go ahead, roll the dice.
That means that the FED will help remove up to $30 BILL of the BSC's Trillion+ dollar derivatives book. That takes the leap of faith that only a few percent of them will self-destruct, which is extremely optimistic. But regardless, there was no choice. JPM is the biggest holder of derivatives hot-cakes in the world. It's only fitting that they sop up this relatively small amount and add it to their existing $77,000,000,000,000 derivative's book.
<< <i>The central bank has agreed to fund up to $30 billion of Bear Stearns' less liquid assets.
I wonder what that means? >>
The FED allows certain types of bonds to be financed through the discount window. Bear owns many bonds that do not fit this criteria and therefore cannot be repo'ed through the FED. However, these bonds are probably on repo through Bear's internal repo desk and need to maintain a certain amount of leverage. The government has allowed Bear to do so to prevent another collapse (probably a hedge fund).
Kitco's server will be down much of this week. That is quite routine for them since they want to keep you guessing when gold is flying. When gold is tanking their website works flawlessly (lol)
<< <i>Kitco's server will be down much of this week. That is quite routine for them since they want to keep you guessing when gold is flying. When gold is tanking their website works flawlessly (lol)
Sorry.....no banker stocks for me.
roadrunner >>
No banker stocks, what scares you off? The leverage? The lack of business model?
<< <i>Kitco's server is overloaded on a Sunday night? Gold was $1015.90 a few minutes ago now kitco's not appearing. >>
Asian markets are open, then kitco's doing business. That's why i like them. Open any time metals are being traded anywhere in the world. Couple of different ways in: Door #1 Door #2 Door #3
Also, they have a nice little live ticker that i have on my taskbar. It's called Kcast. Have a golden day!
<< <i><< Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around?? roadrunner >>
Sure it is. You coulda bought Bears Stearns for $30 on Friday. At it's peek it went for $160. But then again since JP Morgan bought Stearns for $2 a share today, you woulda lost just a little bit of money. But hey, there's still other banks. Go ahead, roll the dice. >>
Now there is a good play on banks and it might not be too late, I got in at 63 and its now at 132. Its called ProShares UltraShort symbol SKF. It is an inverse ETF that pays the opposite of whatever the financial index is doing. And because it is an Ultrashort it pays $2 for every $1 the financials go down. Of course it works both ways, but for the midterm it is a one way street down for the banks.
Some of the holders of BSC stock. Note our fave Barclay's, the holder of the gold and silver ETF's. JPM was a major holder as well.
Holder Shares % Out Value* Reported BARROW, HANLEY MEWHINNEY & STRAUSS, INC. 11,485,058 9.73 $1,013,556,368 31-Dec-07 MORGAN STANLEY 6,335,729 5.37 $559,128,084 31-Dec-07 Legg Mason Capital Management, Inc. 5,721,010 4.84 $504,879,132 31-Dec-07 PRIVATE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, INC. 5,541,259 4.69 $489,016,106 31-Dec-07 Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 4,245,451 3.60 $374,661,050 31-Dec-07 STATE STREET CORPORATION 3,550,715 3.01 $313,350,598 31-Dec-07 VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 3,149,691 2.67 $277,960,230 31-Dec-07 JANUS CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, LLC 2,765,699 2.34 $244,072,936 31-Dec-07 FMR LLC 2,359,011 2.00 $208,182,720 31-Dec-07 PUTNAM INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT, LLC 2,242,980 1.90 $197,942,985 31-Dec-07
TOP MUTUAL FUND HOLDERS
Holder Shares % Out Value* Reported VANGUARD/WINDSOR II 8,358,352 7.08 $949,508,787 31-Oct-07 PUTNAM FUND FOR GROWTH AND INCOME 2,350,605 1.99 $267,028,728 31-Oct-07 LEGG MASON VALUE TRUST 1,600,000 1.35 $196,496,000 30-Sep-07 JANUS TWENTY FUND 1,496,429 1.27 $132,059,859 31-Dec-07 VANGUARD 500 INDEX FUND 1,100,046 .93 $135,096,649 30-Sep-07 PUTNAM VOYAGER FUND 965,300 .82 $109,658,080 31-Oct-07 American Beacon Large Cap Value Fd 862,450 .73 $97,974,320 31-Oct-07 PUTNAM INVESTORS FUND 742,700 .63 $84,370,720 31-Oct-07 VANGUARD TOTAL STOCK MARKET INDEX FUND 702,594 .59 $86,285,569 30-Sep-07 COLLEGE RETIREMENT EQUITIES FUND-STOCK ACCOUNT 696,560 .59 $85,544,533 30-Sep-07
People said he was crazy. These same people couldn't discuss the most basic econ 101, but could tell you the names of all of Demi Moore's kids and name every American Idol since season one. The same people that stood in line overnight for an iPhone and paid $2,000 on ebay to be the first one to own a PS3. Who's crazy now?
<< <i>The central bank has agreed to fund up to $30 billion of Bear Stearns' less liquid assets.
I wonder what that means? >>
I'm not sure, but I believe it means this.
JPM just bought all of BS's physical assets, like buildings, office equipment, stuff etc. for $2 a share.
The FED puts up $30 billion to pay off the people owed money from Bear Sterns' less liquid assets.
I don't know about everybody else, but when I get my check to help out with the economy I'm writing back to the Secretary of the Treasury and asking for some more!!!!
"I don't know about everybody else, but when I get my check to help out with the economy I'm writing back to the Secretary of the Treasury and asking for some more!!!!"
You don't have to. It's already in the works. They really have no choice but to keep pumping the money. As long as the FED is pumping to the banks, and it's not getting to the public, the US GOV will have to pump to the public. I read an interesting take from an economist who says that if they are going to go down this road they might as well not drag it out - just go ahead and give every taxpayer $250,000 and really stimulate the economy.
<< <i> You don't have to. It's already in the works. They really have no choice but to keep pumping the money. As long as the FED is pumping to the banks, and it's not getting to the public, the US GOV will have to pump to the public. I read an interesting take from an economist who says that if they are going to go down this road they might as well not drag it out - just go ahead and give every taxpayer $250,000 and really stimulate the economy. >>
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
With gold at $1021.90 in Asia the Mint site still shows the Dolley Madison 1/2 oz coins available at $529.95. I just ordered some but seriously doubt if the Mint will deliver.
<< <i>With gold at $1021.90 in Asia the Mint site still shows the Dolley Madison 1/2 oz coins available at $529.95. I just ordered some but seriously doubt if the Mint will deliver. >>
Comments
Miles
<< <i>Wow!! And the Fed just cut rates by a quarter! Man, when did Sunday become a weekday?
Miles >>
Yup, I was just about to post that. They are in a panic. On a SUNDAY!!
lending rate cut
A British billionaire with a 9.6% stake in Bear lost a cool $800 MILL.
Chalk up some more $$ TRILLIONs in risk to JPM's hedgebook. What's another few on top of $77 TRILLION.
Start counting to 550 TRILLION. That's how big it will get.
roadrunner
If Bear Stearns went under, other institutions that are holding paper connected to Bear Stearns would then be in trouble. A domino effect was/is very likely. All of these banks/brokerages are tied in with each other. One gets in trouble and they are all at risk.
Also, if the populace gets really worried after hearing about Bear Stearns, it will not take much of a run on the other banks to put them in trouble.
The 'bailout' of Bear Stearns (by the cheap purchase of $2 per share instead of the $30 per share that they closed at on Friday) does not end the teetering. This will be an interesting week, to see what investors do. If they panic, the banks (and our system) is in deep trouble.
Anyone out there still burying their heads in the sand?
eidted....sorry should have inserted a winkie......
Me and most stocks just don't mix well...esp banks.
roadrunner
$2 a share is a disaster and some serious wealth destruction.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow!! And the Fed just cut rates by a quarter! Man, when did Sunday become a weekday?
Miles >>
Yup, I was just about to post that. They are in a panic. On a SUNDAY!!
lending rate cut >>
On another note, on one day we've got the president saying that a government should not provide too much help...link.
The next day you have the Treasury Secretary saying that the government will do whatever it has to do to stabilize the markets...link.
It's apparent that these people don't know what they're doing.
<< <i>The interest rate they cut is not the same one they will cut on Tuesday. Cheers, RickO >>
Correct but the discount window is VERY important these days.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around??
roadrunner >>
In theory it is. I'd say there probably a few safe ones to purchase-many more might find themselves in trouble if they are anywhere along the domino trail.
geez the BSC yahoo finance message board looks like a suicide hotline.......
I wonder what that means?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around??
roadrunner >>
I think it is a little too soon yet. Too much to come yet. If you buy in now, chances are good you will lose a good portion before you start to make any gains. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th quarter....
<< <i>I think it is a little too soon yet. Too much to come yet. If you buy in now, chances are good you will lose a good portion before you start to make any gains. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th quarter.... >>
Of 2011
roadrunner >>
Sure it is. You coulda bought Bears Stearns for $30 on Friday. At it's peek it went for $160. But then again since JP Morgan bought Stearns for $2 a share today, you woulda lost just a little bit of money. But hey, there's still other banks. Go ahead, roll the dice.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
roadrunner
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
Go gold!
Kitco's server is overloaded on a Sunday night? Gold was $1015.90 a few minutes ago now kitco's not appearing.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>The central bank has agreed to fund up to $30 billion of Bear Stearns' less liquid assets.
I wonder what that means? >>
The FED allows certain types of bonds to be financed through the discount window. Bear owns many bonds that do not fit this criteria and therefore cannot be repo'ed through the FED. However, these bonds are probably on repo through Bear's internal repo desk and need to maintain a certain amount of leverage. The government has allowed Bear to do so to prevent another collapse (probably a hedge fund).
When gold is tanking their website works flawlessly (lol)
Sorry.....no banker stocks for me.
roadrunner
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Kitco's server will be down much of this week. That is quite routine for them since they want to keep you guessing when gold is flying.
When gold is tanking their website works flawlessly (lol)
Sorry.....no banker stocks for me.
roadrunner >>
No banker stocks, what scares you off? The leverage? The lack of business model?
<< <i>geez the BSC yahoo finance message board looks like a suicide hotline....... >>
....that is absolutely on fire as far as postiing activity
How about the fraud? Now $1021
roadrunner
<< <i>Kitco's server is overloaded on a Sunday night? Gold was $1015.90 a few minutes ago now kitco's not appearing. >>
Asian markets are open, then kitco's doing business. That's why i like them. Open any time metals are being traded anywhere in the world.
Couple of different ways in:
Door #1
Door #2
Door #3
Also, they have a nice little live ticker that i have on my taskbar. It's called Kcast. Have a golden day!
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Why does this matter for coin collecting? >>
Keep an eye on PCGS price guide for gold coins.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i><< Wouldn't this be a good time to buy bank stocks because they are cheap and ripe for a turn-around??
roadrunner >>
Sure it is. You coulda bought Bears Stearns for $30 on Friday. At it's peek it went for $160. But then again since JP Morgan bought Stearns for $2 a share today, you woulda lost just a little bit of money. But hey, there's still other banks. Go ahead, roll the dice. >>
Now there is a good play on banks and it might not be too late, I got in at 63 and its now at 132. Its called ProShares UltraShort symbol SKF. It is an inverse ETF that pays the opposite of whatever the financial index is doing. And because it is an Ultrashort it pays $2 for every $1 the financials go down. Of course it works both ways, but for the midterm it is a one way street down for the banks.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>I clicked over to CNBC to see if they had "breaking news" yet, but nope...no one's in the studio I'm sure >>
I guess rust does sleep.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Wow, unprecedented is right. I clicked over to CNBC to see if they had "breaking news" yet, but nope...no one's in the studio I'm sure
Go to the Asian Squack box, they are all over it.
<< <i>Wow, unprecedented is right. I clicked over to CNBC to see if they had "breaking news" yet, but nope...no one's in the studio I'm sure
They'll be all over it if this triggers a stock market crash, lol.
Holder Shares % Out Value* Reported
BARROW, HANLEY MEWHINNEY & STRAUSS, INC. 11,485,058 9.73 $1,013,556,368 31-Dec-07
MORGAN STANLEY 6,335,729 5.37 $559,128,084 31-Dec-07
Legg Mason Capital Management, Inc. 5,721,010 4.84 $504,879,132 31-Dec-07
PRIVATE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, INC. 5,541,259 4.69 $489,016,106 31-Dec-07
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 4,245,451 3.60 $374,661,050 31-Dec-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 3,550,715 3.01 $313,350,598 31-Dec-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 3,149,691 2.67 $277,960,230 31-Dec-07
JANUS CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, LLC 2,765,699 2.34 $244,072,936 31-Dec-07
FMR LLC 2,359,011 2.00 $208,182,720 31-Dec-07
PUTNAM INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT, LLC 2,242,980 1.90 $197,942,985 31-Dec-07
TOP MUTUAL FUND HOLDERS
Holder Shares % Out Value* Reported
VANGUARD/WINDSOR II 8,358,352 7.08 $949,508,787 31-Oct-07
PUTNAM FUND FOR GROWTH AND INCOME 2,350,605 1.99 $267,028,728 31-Oct-07
LEGG MASON VALUE TRUST 1,600,000 1.35 $196,496,000 30-Sep-07
JANUS TWENTY FUND 1,496,429 1.27 $132,059,859 31-Dec-07
VANGUARD 500 INDEX FUND 1,100,046 .93 $135,096,649 30-Sep-07
PUTNAM VOYAGER FUND 965,300 .82 $109,658,080 31-Oct-07
American Beacon Large Cap Value Fd 862,450 .73 $97,974,320 31-Oct-07
PUTNAM INVESTORS FUND 742,700 .63 $84,370,720 31-Oct-07
VANGUARD TOTAL STOCK MARKET INDEX FUND 702,594 .59 $86,285,569 30-Sep-07
COLLEGE RETIREMENT EQUITIES FUND-STOCK ACCOUNT 696,560 .59 $85,544,533 30-Sep-07
roadrunner
<< <i>And they ignored Dr Ron Paul.
. >>
People said he was crazy. These same people couldn't discuss the most basic econ 101, but could tell you the names of all of Demi Moore's kids and name every American Idol since season one. The same people that stood in line overnight for an iPhone and paid $2,000 on ebay to be the first one to own a PS3. Who's crazy now?
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>The central bank has agreed to fund up to $30 billion of Bear Stearns' less liquid assets.
I wonder what that means? >>
I'm not sure, but I believe it means this.
JPM just bought all of BS's physical assets, like buildings, office equipment, stuff etc. for $2 a share.
The FED puts up $30 billion to pay off the people owed money from Bear Sterns' less liquid assets.
I don't know about everybody else, but when I get my check to help out with the economy I'm writing
back to the Secretary of the Treasury and asking for some more!!!!
Jerry
back to the Secretary of the Treasury and asking for some more!!!!"
You don't have to. It's already in the works. They really have no choice but to keep pumping the money. As long as the FED is pumping to the banks, and it's not getting to the public, the US GOV will have to pump to the public. I read an interesting take from an economist who says that if they are going to go down this road they might as well not drag it out - just go ahead and give every taxpayer $250,000 and really stimulate the economy.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
You don't have to. It's already in the works. They really have no choice but to keep pumping the money. As long as the FED is pumping to the banks, and it's not getting to the public, the US GOV will have to pump to the public. I read an interesting take from an economist who says that if they are going to go down this road they might as well not drag it out - just go ahead and give every taxpayer $250,000 and really stimulate the economy. >>
Now that's a plan I can back.
<< <i>With gold at $1021.90 in Asia the Mint site still shows the Dolley Madison 1/2 oz coins available at $529.95. I just ordered some but seriously doubt if the Mint will deliver. >>
They are only worth melt so why pay the premium?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870