1879-O DMPL? Opinions please. UPDATED: CLEANED! (OUCH)

Raybob15239

Please take a look and let me know your thoughts? Would this get PL or DMPL? Worth slabbing?

EDITED TO SAY: I tried to post the pictures, but must have done it wrong. Can someone help, please?

Novice mistake...inadvertenmtly deleted my pictures...

EDITED 4/2/08: Came back from ANACS.... MS60 Details;Cleaned.

SilverEagles92

AUandAG

That looks not natural, highly polished to my eye. AU details per the hair, can't see the eagle's breast.
Need to see that baby in hand.

bob

SilverEagles92

<< <i> AU details per the hair >>



It's an O-mint coin, you don't think that's just a weak strike?

Newcomp103

The 79-O does not fall into the same rule as many of the other "O'S"....this date is usually seen pretty well struck. Cant make a good judgement on the coin with those pics...if we can see a better pic, we might be able to tell you a better opinion.

Shawn

Sunnywood

As always, it is impossible to judge accurately from the pics ... however, one can only say that if the coin is MS and for real, and the surfaces are not altered or enhanced to produce that reflectivity, then by all means it would be worth getting it certified !! Though once in the slab, you can't have quite as much fun with it reflecting images of postage stamps LOL ... it doesn't work quite as well in the slab. At 64 or better, the 1879-O is quite a catch with DMPL fields.

Sunnywood

sweetwilliet

Well, judging from a picture, I say easily a pl and likely dmpl, IF it hasn't been messed with. Of course, that is just my best guess from a pic, but the mirrors look nice and deep, any chance of a close-up?

messydesk

If original, it's at least PL, probably DMPL. I'd take it to a show and get some opinions from grading services that set up shop there offering opinions. My biggest reservations come from the fact that the rim looks like it's circulated. Also, the stars on the obverse should be frostier.

Stuart

It's impossible to discern from the photograph provided whether or not the 1879-O Morgan Dollar in question has original or altered surfaces.

If the coin has original surfaces, it would certainly be worth submitting for certification and grading as it would likely have enough reflectivity to make at least the Prooflike (PL), and probably the Deep Mirror Prooflike (DMPL) designation.

If the coin has altered surfaces the grading service will not certify and grade it. It can be a risky business to purchase raw PL or DMPL Morgan Dollars, and it is a highly risky business to purchase them from digital photographs online.

vplite

It looks beautiful, but I agree that the pictures are not good enough to make a judgment. I would love to see a much better picture, straight on.

dizzlecc

It is worth slabbing, mostly likely pl.

Hard to tell from the current photos.

It is a tough coin to get with solid mirrors.

We would need a straight on shot to guess a potential grade.

DJCoinz

Like has already been said, you can't tell from those pix, but it'll definitely go at least PL if it hasn't been messed with...

Meltdown

I'm not seeing a lot of frost on the devices. Is that a requirement for PL or DMPL designations?
The fields are certainly deep mirrors.

Wolf359

<< <i>Please take a look and let me know your thoughts? Would this get PL or DMPL? Worth slabbing?

EDITED TO SAY: I tried to post the pictures, but must have done it wrong. Can someone help, please? >>



I doubt it even makes PL from the photos.

I avoid all ebay sellers who claim DMPL coins and use example photos like this. Usually these coins are AU cleaned former PL's and the photos bring in newbies
like wildfire to overbid the coin. You really can't tell DMPL's from photos...you have to see the coin in person.

Bear

I say send it in. It may be worth a shot

for a PL if not a cameo.

Raybob15239

If some one can tell me how to post photos in my response, I can post some other pictures. Thanks.

HighRelief

Might grade PL seeing the reflection in the fields. Send it in and see what PCGS has to say about it and let us know.

Raybob15239

Herre are some more pictures; sorry, I don't know how to post within the reply yet.

Raybob15239

Reverse:

Raybob15239

Raybob15239

Finally figured it out...that's a lot of work! The closeups are shot thru a 30x loupe held against the camera lense.

Stuart

RayBob: Based on your new photos posted, I am leaning towards PL if the coin has original (and not altered) surfaces, but I don't think that it's likely for this coin to make the DMPL designation.

eagle7

One would have to look at the coin in person to be absolutely certain, but my vote as far as certification by PCGS is this one. Bodybag, cleaned. Of course that does not tell the real story. I think the coin has been very carefully whizzed in the fields with some type of soft material. Some unsavory folks are very good at this type of surface alteration. I hope this is not the case with your coin, but I think I see just a bit of it in two of the pics which are at an angle to the light. You need a good light and a good loupe to spot this kind of alteration. Rotate the coin in the light while looking with your loupe. If your coin has been altered you will see millions of tiny shallow lines which are illuminated by the light. They are very hard to see unless you have a loupe. Unsavory people can take a semi pl coin and turn it into a pl or dmpl rather quickly using this method. I say again, I hope this is not the case with your coin. But I would not be surprised at all to hear that it bodybags.

Raybob15239

I looked under bright light with a 30X loupe. Kind of sick to my stomach now. There they are... lots of little fine lines.

I bought this at a big show last year (on May 5, '07). Paid way too much given the whizzing. Seller was a guy out of Townsend Massachusetts with the initials "RSH". (I have his name, but don't want to post it here.

Wolf359

Sorry.

We've all bought coins that didn't work out, if that helps any.

Raybob15239

When I bought this coin, the lighting was lousy and I did not yet own a loupe. Paid $150 for it wrongly belieiving it would go at least 63. I was going thru my albums checking for any VAMs and took another look at this. This just plain sucks. Just another lesson for the next time, though.

Stuart

RayBob: For your reference, some PL and even DMPL Morgan Dollars may have some die polish striations which exhibit themselves as RAISED usually straight lines on the coin surface.

Whereas, whizzing causes striations which are BELOW the coin surface, and are typically curved in shape.

DJCoinz

Looks original to me and has a good shot at PL, IMO.

DUIGUY

<< <i>I say send it in. It may be worth a shot

for a PL if not a cameo. >>





Can't tell 100% from the pics but I would say you have a winner. Git ir graded.

morgannut2

<< <i>RayBob: For your reference, some PL and even DMPL Morgan Dollars may have some die polish striations which exhibit themselves as RAISED usually straight lines on the coin surface.

Whereas, whizzing causes striations which are BELOW the coin surface, and are typically curved in shape. >>


---------------------------------------

Stuart's point is important because the MAJORITY of pl coins have some

very fine dies polish lines. Look inside areas like the letters/date etc. to see if they continue uninterupted (polish) etc.

Actually my concern is more that the cheek has been rubbed with someone's thumb or similar subltle doctoring

to hide abrasions of a 62 and make it look 63+.

PS__IF you missed it, don't worry, I still see dozens of these subltlely altered PL's still in ANACS, NGC and OLD

PCGS holders being dumped at major auctions.

--PSS_ An easy way to learn is see some DMPL/PLs at any of the MANY top specialists tables (ie Legend and the like) at a show.
Then look at 100 or so PLs at an auction preview. You will see the differences, polish lines, etc.

BECOKA

Your new pics make it look like a borderline PL.

I would try to go to the next show in your area, bring that with you and compare it with other PL coins.

Raybob15239

Stuart:

The lines are straignt, not curved, which gives me some hope. I can't tell if they are raised or not. There are a bunch of bag marks on the obverse, and the check is not as nice as the picture shows. The lines are straight, but go in all sorts of different directions, so it does not appear uniform in any way. I have some free grades from ANACS coming as a result of themove debacle. Maybe I'll send it to them for a first pass and see what happens.

Ray

eagle7

If the coin has die polish marks, which are raised lines, you wont need a 30x loupe to see them. They are unmistakable and they are easy to see with a light and a six or eight x loupe. They are most often seen on 80S, 81S and 82S coins. I think the ANACS route is a good idea to start with. Hope it works out ok, but I have real doubts about this coin. Let us know how it turns out. Good Luck.

ricko

I believe it is definitely worth a free submission... just to ascertain the surface originality. If it is original, you should get a PL.... Cheers, RickO

Raybob15239

Well, ANACS (which has been incredibly SSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWW) just came back. MS60 Details/Cleaned.

Live and learn. The dealer I bought it from as a gem prooflike was Robert S. Harlow Rare Coins out of Townsend MA. I'll be looking for him again at the PAN show in May. I'll have more than a few choice words for him. He holds himself out as an expert, surely, he can't claim to have been duped. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.

NH484000

Sorry to hear that......

Nice Avatar, BTW!