<< <i>There has been a change and not for the good.The regular collector base is being outpaced by bullion collectors.Normal collectors that have once sought coins year after year and have traded their coins seem to fallen to the wayside.They are not being sought after.Bullion graded coins are becoming popular and are replacing a once circulated coin market. Coins are plentiful ..but who wants them when the price of bullion keeps rising.....the ones making money are the buyers and sellers..not the holders... >>
today, there are many, many people "buying" coins, but very few "collecting" them.
Last week at my local coin shop, many regular customers left without being helped, since he was so busy taking of all people coming in selling junk silver.
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
Last week at my local coin shop, many regular customers left without being helped, since he was so busy taking of all people coming in selling junk silver.
That's kinda funny, because the last time I went into a shop looking for some nice Plats (Scotsmans) the 8 or 9 people behind the counter were busy with "coin stuff" and the only thing I was shown were some junk platinum stuff (an Isle of Man and a Koala). A pretty sorry showing for a shop that is listed as a Mint Distributor for bullion products. Worthless!
Oh, I did leave with a price list, but the prices weren't so great. (B&M Rule #1 - always rip a bullion collector when possible.) I also got a line of bull, basically that slabbed Plats were just bullion and why anyone would collect them anyways? Hey, they didn't need my "bullion" business, I guess - which is a damned shame because I went there specifically to establish a longterm relationship and to try again after being snubbed twice by their folks behind the tables at 2 successive coin shows. (Hint to Scotsman - never again.)
Let's draw the line now..I'm not talking about Classic bullion coins.If the Bullion buyers want to lump those coins into their group I'm not.To me those are Classic Coins..
To most of you my motivation is derived from the dry years that the Mint produced absolutely ...Nothing...but a Proof and an uncirculated set......Now after a few years ..OK ..a little more than a few ..it has grown into a ..damn..FLEA Market of whatever you want to call it. I coud see if they wanted to continue with a purpose...BUT the purpose is Bullion.. Bullion..$$$$...A Bullion Flea Market.....
Yes, Gemineye - Let's do draw a line now. I'm not talking about "Classic bullion coins" either. (Although I might note that what you refer to as "Classic bullion coins" is mostly just picked-over, left-over gold from the 1880s through 1927 or so.)
So you complain about too few Mint offerings, and now you complain about too many? I agree that the Mint is a "whore in the marketplace". Everybody knows that! So what? We analyze Modern Bullion Coins and then we collect them. That's what Modern Bullion collectors do - we carefully track the Mint's output, the market's reaction to it, the odds of a coin becoming "rare" or a "key." Actually, we do the VERY SAME EXACT THINGS that "classic collectors" do.
To imply that Modern Bullion Collectors are not "real collectors" is, frankly - ludicrous, and a bit demeaning. I'm fairly certain that your reference to a damn..flea market was not meant to be complimentary in any way. You are sounding like Laura, and that's not always a compliment, either. By the way, my hobby has paid some very nice returns this year. How's yours doing?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
jmski52 It's funny..I don't see any coin designs circulating of the Bullion Eagle that the collectors cherish so greatly.Their main interest in collecting is to purchase and certify.I'm not against certification if you want to know.I just happen to think that the Bullion coins will never circulate among the masses or general public which was the intention of the mint to establish a currency or coinage. You can say what you want about my sounding like ..Laura.. but I still feel the mint is doing a diservice to the averge collector with the Bullion Flea market.If they want to sell their bullion perhapse they should market it in bars and compete with other metal marketers....This is my opinion only ...it doesn't condemn anyone from buying bullion.......( maybe ....)....!!!
Modern bullion coins were made for bullion investors. I don't think the Mint ever imagined there would be so much collector interest.
I don't see why having people like modern bullion coins is a bad thing.
It's worse for the average collector when many people like MPLs, classic proofs, southern gold, pre-federals, patterns, territorial gold, etc. This raises prices and makes it hard for many people to enjoy collecting At least with moderns, just about anyone can feel the pride of ownership.
If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring.
<< <i>If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring. >>
Good point.....you can always practice on a cheap bullion coin with nothing to lose...just sell it on the Bay.....!!!
<< <i>If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring. >>
Good point.....you can always practice on a cheap bullion coin with nothing to lose...just sell it on the Bay.....!!! >>
If you want to practice for classics, it'd be best to practice with .900 coins.
I'm guessing you use bullion to mean .999+ coins, not .900 coins, though .900 coins can be bullion as well.
It's funny..I don't see any coin designs circulating of the Bullion Eagle that the collectors cherish so greatly.Their main interest in collecting is to purchase and certify.I'm not against certification if you want to know.I just happen to think that the Bullion coins will never circulate among the masses or general public which was the intention of the mint to establish a currency or coinage.
Gemineye - Nobody said that the American Eagle Coins were ever intended to circulate. End of discussion. Certification has it's place, but there's no law that says it's required. Speak to your elected representatives the next time you feel that a fiat currency isn't doing the job. Don't blame it on the bullion coins. Besides - before too long, they will try to eliminate all coinage (which is really not a good thing, imo). You need to be able to distinguish between two completely separate issues. Sheesh.
You can say what you want about my sounding like ..Laura.. but I still feel the mint is doing a diservice to the averge collector with the Bullion Flea market.If they want to sell their bullion perhapse they should market it in bars and compete with other metal marketers....
We disagree 100%. I think that the Reagan Administration did us all a favor by putting the American Eagle Program in place. To say that the bullion coins are somehow "hurting" the coin market is unsubstantiated. The coin market was NEVER a consideration for the tens of thousands of dollars I put into bullion this past year. Not even a whiff of a consideration. Get it?
I collect classic coins, though. And I collect bullion coins. There is no difference between them, in my view. Making derisive remarks about collectors of American Eagle Bullion coins is Laura's stock in trade, and it is somewhat insulting to a specific group of people without any reason for being so. Such remarks are also the main reason that I don't give much credence to people like you or her (no slur intended), because they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to bullion coins.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>collectors that have once sought coins year after year and have traded their coins seem to fallen to the wayside.They are not being sought after.Bullion graded coins are becoming popular and are replacing a once circulated coin market. >>
Why is that a bad thing? Collector preferences change over time.
<< <i>because they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to bullion coins. >>
I don't disagree ...I don't collect bullion coins... Why ....Is I don't want to.I saw at the start of the series of the Eagles in 86 of what they were becoming and I bought into the first two years of Proof Issues . ...and if we disagree well that's life .....I'm not gonna get too upset over what you like to collect or purchase.I'm sure as was said somewhere here which I do agree though.. I believe that the Bullion program has exceeeded it's expectations.
To take a different tact, I think it's good for collectors that many newbie-like "collectors" collect/hoard bullion. If all this newbie money flowed into older coins with real numismatic value, prices would be pushed to even more unreasonable prices than they are now. If anything I think bullion buyers help true collectors by keeping some of the more extreme froth out of the market. I must admit, beside older type coins, I collect plat $50s and while I don't think they have great numismatic value when compared to older coins with significabtly less POPs in ms condition(regardless of the "low" mintages of plats), I think you might make a case the mintages are low enough in plats to mantain some true collector value, although the high price of the metal greatly reduces it's numismatic component.
With the metals prices rising, if anything bullion buyers are more emboldened than ever, that what they are doing is a great investment and collectable, and metals prices could continue to reward them in the future. Of couse at some point the music will stop and there will be no numismatic value in bullion to hold up prices, Until then, bullion will buyers keep buying it, and that leaves more coins available for collectors of older coins and how can that be a bad thing?
<< <i>If all this newbie money flowed into older coins with real numismatic value, prices would be pushed to even more unreasonable prices than they are now. >>
Exactly. And the people who are complaining now, are the same who would be complaining if all the bullion money moved to classic coins. I can just hear it. "All the new money is ruining the hobby", "they have no clue", etc. Just more sour grapes, imo.
I don't think so...All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin.
I don't know about that. I see desire for the 69s growing much faster than the desire for 70s, as the 69s are available very close to melt and give the collector a lot more flexibility with their holdings, than the 70s, (sometimes) available at usually well above melt, which, comparitively, may not be so desirable. I think that most submitters feel that 69s are cool, but 70s are better, that's all, and that's for bullion dates where there is enough price difference between the 69 and the 70. For some dates, there isn't enough of a price difference to even matter. Complaining about another's collecting habits is silly. Maybe there is just a little sour grapes in all those negative opinions about what others choose to collect?
<< <i>All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin. >>
Assuming that's even an accurate assessment of the situation... so what? Since the mint's going to make whatever they're instructed to by congress and people are going to choose from those products what to collect regardless of how you feel about it, I'd say worrying about the issue is probably going to be a less than productive use of your time (unless, of course, you like to worry about things you can't do anything about).
People should collect whatever they like. People should not criticize others for what they choose to collect.
I don't think so...All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin. >>
That is true to some degree but more so for the post-2005 bullion grade 70 coins. I don't see too many early date 70s being made and believe me I know many who are trying including myself.
<< <i>Complaining about another's collecting habits is silly. Maybe there is just a little sour grapes in all those negative opinions about what others choose to collect? >>
....
<< <i>Assuming that's even an accurate assessment of the situation... so what? Since the mint's going to make whatever they're instructed to by congress and people are going to choose from those products what to collect regardless of how you feel about it, I'd say worrying about the issue is probably going to be a less than productive use of your time (unless, of course, you like to worry about things you can't do anything about).
People should collect whatever they like. People should not criticize others for what they choose to collect. >>
Even my wife don't do what I tell her to do...!!!....
Comments
<< <i>There has been a change and not for the good.The regular collector base is being outpaced by bullion collectors.Normal collectors that have once sought coins year after year and have traded their coins seem to fallen to the wayside.They are not being sought after.Bullion graded coins are becoming popular and are replacing a once circulated coin market.
Coins are plentiful ..but who wants them when the price of bullion keeps rising.....the ones making money are the buyers and sellers..not the holders... >>
today, there are many, many people "buying" coins, but very few "collecting" them.
K S
That's kinda funny, because the last time I went into a shop looking for some nice Plats (Scotsmans) the 8 or 9 people behind the counter were busy with "coin stuff" and the only thing I was shown were some junk platinum stuff (an Isle of Man and a Koala). A pretty sorry showing for a shop that is listed as a Mint Distributor for bullion products. Worthless!
Oh, I did leave with a price list, but the prices weren't so great. (B&M Rule #1 - always rip a bullion collector when possible.) I also got a line of bull, basically that slabbed Plats were just bullion and why anyone would collect them anyways? Hey, they didn't need my "bullion" business, I guess - which is a damned shame because I went there specifically to establish a longterm relationship and to try again after being snubbed twice by their folks behind the tables at 2 successive coin shows. (Hint to Scotsman - never again.)
Let's draw the line now..I'm not talking about Classic bullion coins.If the Bullion buyers want to lump those coins into their group I'm not.To me those are Classic Coins..
To most of you my motivation is derived from the dry years that the Mint produced absolutely ...Nothing...but a Proof and an uncirculated set......Now after a few years ..OK ..a little more than a few ..it has grown into a ..damn..FLEA Market of whatever you want to call it.
I coud see if they wanted to continue with a purpose...BUT the purpose is Bullion.. Bullion..$$$$...A Bullion Flea Market.....
Yes, Gemineye - Let's do draw a line now. I'm not talking about "Classic bullion coins" either. (Although I might note that what you refer to as "Classic bullion coins" is mostly just picked-over, left-over gold from the 1880s through 1927 or so.)
So you complain about too few Mint offerings, and now you complain about too many? I agree that the Mint is a "whore in the marketplace". Everybody knows that! So what? We analyze Modern Bullion Coins and then we collect them. That's what Modern Bullion collectors do - we carefully track the Mint's output, the market's reaction to it, the odds of a coin becoming "rare" or a "key." Actually, we do the VERY SAME EXACT THINGS that "classic collectors" do.
To imply that Modern Bullion Collectors are not "real collectors" is, frankly - ludicrous, and a bit demeaning. I'm fairly certain that your reference to a damn..flea market was not meant to be complimentary in any way. You are sounding like Laura, and that's not always a compliment, either. By the way, my hobby has paid some very nice returns this year. How's yours doing?
I knew it would happen.
It's funny..I don't see any coin designs circulating of the Bullion Eagle that the collectors cherish so greatly.Their main interest in collecting is to purchase and certify.I'm not against certification if you want to know.I just happen to think that the Bullion coins will never circulate among the masses or general public which was the intention of the mint to establish a currency or coinage.
You can say what you want about my sounding like ..Laura.. but I still feel the mint is doing a diservice to the averge collector with the Bullion Flea market.If they want to sell their bullion perhapse they should market it in bars and compete with other metal marketers....This is my opinion only ...it doesn't condemn anyone from buying bullion.......( maybe .
I don't see why having people like modern bullion coins is a bad thing.
It's worse for the average collector when many people like MPLs, classic proofs, southern gold, pre-federals, patterns, territorial gold, etc. This raises prices and makes it hard for many people to enjoy collecting
If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring.
<< <i>If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring. >>
Good point.....you can always practice on a cheap bullion coin with nothing to lose...just sell it on the Bay.....!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>If there's one thing that's detrimental for coins, it's probably how the demand for rainbow-toned Morgans has led to an increase in doctoring. >>
Good point.....you can always practice on a cheap bullion coin with nothing to lose...just sell it on the Bay.....!!! >>
If you want to practice for classics, it'd be best to practice with .900 coins.
I'm guessing you use bullion to mean .999+ coins, not .900 coins, though .900 coins can be bullion as well.
Gemineye - Nobody said that the American Eagle Coins were ever intended to circulate. End of discussion. Certification has it's place, but there's no law that says it's required. Speak to your elected representatives the next time you feel that a fiat currency isn't doing the job. Don't blame it on the bullion coins. Besides - before too long, they will try to eliminate all coinage (which is really not a good thing, imo). You need to be able to distinguish between two completely separate issues. Sheesh.
You can say what you want about my sounding like ..Laura.. but I still feel the mint is doing a diservice to the averge collector with the Bullion Flea market.If they want to sell their bullion perhapse they should market it in bars and compete with other metal marketers....
We disagree 100%. I think that the Reagan Administration did us all a favor by putting the American Eagle Program in place. To say that the bullion coins are somehow "hurting" the coin market is unsubstantiated. The coin market was NEVER a consideration for the tens of thousands of dollars I put into bullion this past year. Not even a whiff of a consideration. Get it?
I collect classic coins, though. And I collect bullion coins. There is no difference between them, in my view. Making derisive remarks about collectors of American Eagle Bullion coins is Laura's stock in trade, and it is somewhat insulting to a specific group of people without any reason for being so. Such remarks are also the main reason that I don't give much credence to people like you or her (no slur intended), because they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to bullion coins.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>collectors that have once sought coins year after year and have traded their coins seem to fallen to the wayside.They are not being sought after.Bullion graded coins are becoming popular and are replacing a once circulated coin market. >>
Why is that a bad thing? Collector preferences change over time.
<< <i>because they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to bullion coins. >>
I don't disagree ...I don't collect bullion coins... Why ....Is I don't want to.I saw at the start of the series of the Eagles in 86 of what they were becoming and I bought into the first two years of Proof Issues .
...and if we disagree well that's life .....I'm not gonna get too upset over what you like to collect or purchase.I'm sure as was said somewhere here which I do agree though.. I believe that the Bullion program has exceeeded it's expectations.
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone buying "bullion" now is in for a LONG wait to see any profits. IMHO
Bob
You been looking at any charts recently?
I bought a rather large batch two weeks ago and I'm already ahead several thousand $$. >>
Come back in 2 months and we'll talk
Bob
Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.
I must admit, beside older type coins, I collect plat $50s and while I don't think they have great numismatic value when compared to older coins with significabtly less POPs in ms condition(regardless of the "low" mintages of plats), I think you might make a case the mintages are low enough in plats to mantain some true collector value, although the high price of the metal greatly reduces it's numismatic component.
With the metals prices rising, if anything bullion buyers are more emboldened than ever, that what they are doing is a great investment and collectable, and metals prices could continue to reward them in the future. Of couse at some point the music will stop and there will be no numismatic value in bullion to hold up prices, Until then, bullion will buyers keep buying it, and that leaves more coins available for collectors of older coins and how can that be a bad thing?
<< <i>If all this newbie money flowed into older coins with real numismatic value, prices would be pushed to even more unreasonable prices than they are now. >>
Exactly. And the people who are complaining now, are the same who would be complaining if all the bullion money moved to classic coins. I can just hear it. "All the new money is ruining the hobby", "they have no clue", etc. Just more sour grapes, imo.
<< <i>The reason it is being graded is because it is being collected. >>
Or is it more accurate to say, "The reason it's being collected is because it's being graded"?
<< <i>Just more sour grapes, imo. >>
I don't think so...All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin.
Complaining about another's collecting habits is silly. Maybe there is just a little sour grapes in all those negative opinions about what others choose to collect?
<< <i>All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin. >>
Assuming that's even an accurate assessment of the situation... so what? Since the mint's going to make whatever they're instructed to by congress and people are going to choose from those products what to collect regardless of how you feel about it, I'd say worrying about the issue is probably going to be a less than productive use of your time (unless, of course, you like to worry about things you can't do anything about).
People should collect whatever they like.
People should not criticize others for what they choose to collect.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just more sour grapes, imo. >>
I don't think so...All these so called Bullion collector buyers who send their coins in for certification demand a 70 grade and if not they think that ther's something wrong with the coin. >>
That is true to some degree but more so for the post-2005 bullion grade 70 coins. I don't see too many early date 70s being made and believe me I know many who are trying including myself.
<< <i>Complaining about another's collecting habits is silly. Maybe there is just a little sour grapes in all those negative opinions about what others choose to collect? >>
....
<< <i>Assuming that's even an accurate assessment of the situation... so what? Since the mint's going to make whatever they're instructed to by congress and people are going to choose from those products what to collect regardless of how you feel about it, I'd say worrying about the issue is probably going to be a less than productive use of your time (unless, of course, you like to worry about things you can't do anything about).
People should collect whatever they like.
People should not criticize others for what they choose to collect. >>
Even my wife don't do what I tell her to do...!!!....