ESPN Poll Re: Greatest QB in NFL History
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Now that Favre has announced his apparent retirement, ESPN threw a quick poll on its website asking who is the greatest QB in NFL history. The choices are:
1. Brady
2. Elway
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Montana
Last I checked, it was:
1. Brady - 12%
2. Elway - 8%
3. Favre - 22%
4. Marino - 9%
5. Montana - 48%
Montana won every state except for Wisconsin, Massachusetts and New Hampshire. In Wisconsin, Favre received 71% of the vote; in Massachusetts Brady received 55% of the vote; and in New Hampshire Brady received 49% of the vote. I love how home states are not biased in favor of their "home players."
Here's a link to the poll:
ESPN Poll Re: Greatest QB in NFL History
/s/ JackWESQ
1. Brady
2. Elway
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Montana
Last I checked, it was:
1. Brady - 12%
2. Elway - 8%
3. Favre - 22%
4. Marino - 9%
5. Montana - 48%
Montana won every state except for Wisconsin, Massachusetts and New Hampshire. In Wisconsin, Favre received 71% of the vote; in Massachusetts Brady received 55% of the vote; and in New Hampshire Brady received 49% of the vote. I love how home states are not biased in favor of their "home players."
Here's a link to the poll:
ESPN Poll Re: Greatest QB in NFL History
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Elway is top 10. Totally different eras, Unitas got pounded on a regular basis, calls that would today be roughing the passer penalties, the passing game is totally different today. Any slack jawed yokel can go out and toss 25 TD's with 3000 yards; it's so much easier with all the rules that favor the receivers.
When he retired in 1973, he owned the record for most pass completions, total yards, and most touchdown passes.
Johnny Unitas played in 211 NFL regular season games, completed 2,830 out of 5,186 pass attempts, threw for 40,239 yards, threw 290 touchdown passes; Unitas appeared in the Pro Bowl ten times, and won the MVP award in 1957, 1959, 1964, and 1967.
Otto Graham is considered by many historians to be one of the greatest winners in the history of professional sports. Graham played six seasons in the NFL and took the Cleveland Browns to the NFL Championship Game all six seasons, winning three NFL titles. Including four seasons in which his team captured four AAFC titles, Graham played ten total seasons of professional football and made the league championship game all ten seasons, winning seven league titles. In his single season as a professional basketball player, the Rochester Royals also captured the league title. Thus, in 11 seasons as a professional athlete, Otto Graham's teams made the championship all eleven years, winning eight titles.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Joe Montana. Case closed. >>
What a joke. Any poll that does not include Unitas and Graham as choices has no validity. The rule changes that occured since they played have greatly favored the offense.
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Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
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Thurman Thomas, he would of had more rings than all those guy put together! If you look at what Marino had on offense (or
what he DIDN'T have), you will realize just how great he was!
JS
Brady
Montana
Marino
Favre
Young
Unitas
Graham
Elway
Manning
Moon?
Conversely, how would the poll results change if Montana and Bradshaw had lost one or more of the Superbowls they played in.
To what extent is a quarterback's ranking on the "all time best list" dependent on whether they played in a Superbowl (or pre Superbowl NFL Championship game) and on their record in the Superbowl? Quite a bit I would imagine, simply because the general public has no interest in doing an in depth analysis of all the different factors that determine how great a QB is.
<< <i>Joe Montana. Case closed. >>
No argument here, Stevek.
game was on the line. He had this ability in college (i.e., Cotton Bowl vs. Houston), and it carried over into the pros.
Montana was not greater then Unitas or Graham, but the guy has to be given a small edge because of his never ending ability to be clutch when his team needed him the most. The guy was just unbelieveable (i.e., Dallas Cowboys) when his team needed him to come through for them.
<< <i>Montana had great numbers, but his performance under pressure has to be by far the most impressive of any QB I have ever personally witnessed. >>
Agreed.
I would put Elway just slightly below Montana in that light. Favre would be #3 because of his INTs (live/die by the gunslinging arm).
<< <i>
<< <i>Montana had great numbers, but his performance under pressure has to be by far the most impressive of any QB I have ever personally witnessed. >>
Agreed.
I would put Elway just slightly below Montana in that light. Favre would be #3 because of his INTs (live/die by the gunslinging arm). >>
Brady is up there with those guys, yes he failed in the last Super Bowl but there were a ton of curcumstances to go with that as well-like ZERO protection for starters, not to mention very little clock left...
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Dave
<< <i>Starr is a quality QB but that team was stacked and I seriously don't believe he deserves a place in discussion of all time great QBs. In all seriousness, I don't think Favre does either but maybe that's just me.
If we want to measure a QB by the number of championships, then I would actually have to respect Bradshaw's ability, and I don't. Many people consider Marino one of the very best of all time and that's without any championships. Hence, championships isn't the final and be all determinant in how great a QB was/is. It has a big impact on perception, but that's just the value our society places on winning. If it were Unitas on the Packer teams, then that would be another story.
Starr was good, maybe even very good, but certainly not an all time great. >>
well other than this year brady didnt put up huge numbers in the passing game but just helped evenly ballanced teams win 3 SB's. The year he has his best stats they dont win the SB.
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<< <i>well other than this year brady didnt put up huge numbers in the passing game but just helped evenly ballanced teams win 3 SB's. The year he has his best stats they dont win the SB. >>
Very true, stats can work both ways. However say Trent Dilfer happens to lead a team to two other Super Bowls ( Not sure if he is retired-just an example ) He still wont be HOF worthy or ever mentioned as one of the greats, If Brady never won any rings or playoff games I wouldnt think he would be considered one of the best either but guys like Marino, Moon deserve mention though.
<< <i>
<< <i>Joe Montana. Case closed. >>
No argument here, Stevek. >>
Yes - Some here don't understand that the question was "Greatest QB in NFL History" - The question wasn't who was the most talented or who had the best stats. "Talent" doesn't always win football games, "stats" don't always win football games. Montana had that "knack" of doing the right thing at the right time and figuring out how to do just enough or whatever it took to win...and all that to me represents what the "greatest" quarterback should be about. Remember...Ryan Leaf had a lot of talent.
That being said, guys such as Otto Graham and Unitas were dam great quarterbacks as well, and a few others also, but one has to be the greatest...and that is Joe Montana. Case sealed.
All time punting ave. record holder, led the NFL in interceptions one season, quite a great QB as a passer as well.
Anyway my top list;
1 Unitas
2 Montana
3 Baugh
4 Marino
5 Graham
Brady might get in as 4 or 5, maybe higher, still dont like placing active guys on any "best" list, as they still may go up or down.
The thing that bothers me is the total lack of understanding(though some posters already pointed it out) of why QB's from in the 70's and prior don't put up great passer stats(well as great as Favre, Brady, etc...). It isn't because they weren't as good. It is the rules of the game, plain and simple.
Roger Staubach was better than Brady. He was better than Elway. I can say that with great confidence. He was as good as Favre. Staubach was probably the best QB in his league FIVE times, and that is with missing all that time with his military committment! Sure, his 'numbers' don't compare to guys now, but they certainly compared to the guys who played under similar rules!
Everybody talks about Montana and Brady being cool under pressure. Lucky for them they never had to face the pressure that guys like Staubach did! That is the pressure from a league where defense was allowed to put real pressure on a QB, from the physical play allowed by the DB's, to the man handling allowed by the line. As one poster pointed out, Brady looked very mortal when he was pressured in the Super Bowl. Imagine having to face stuff like that all the time.
I am confident that guys like Staubach who proved their medal in the rules of the NFL of their time, could have no problem succeeding in the PASSER FRIENDLY rules of today. On the other side of the coin, I can't say that with confidence about guys like Brady doing the reverse. He may be able to, but then again, he could struggle. That is an unknown...but an unknown that does not favor today's QB's.
What I do know is that guys like Staubach, who were the best in their league for a number of seasons, are getting a severe slap in the face when they are being made inferior when compared to QB's who may have been the best QB in their league only once or twice.
Then there is Fran Tarkenton, who was also as good as these guys...but it is the clouded judgement by three Super Bowl loses that people lose their focus. All sorts of reasons go into why he has no rings...just as why a big dropped pass could have cost Staubach another ring! Rings are team accompishements, not individual.
I would not mind choosing among
Unitas
Graham
Baugh
Montana
Staubach
Marino
Guys still active I would like to see more first. I would like to see them also be the best passer without the best WR in the league too. That is where Favre gets a big boost. His WR core was never elite.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Montana had great numbers, but his performance under pressure has to be by far the most impressive of any QB I have ever personally witnessed. >>
Agreed.
I would put Elway just slightly below Montana in that light. Favre would be #3 because of his INTs (live/die by the gunslinging arm). >>
Brady is up there with those guys, yes he failed in the last Super Bowl but there were a ton of curcumstances to go with that as well-like ZERO protection for starters, not to mention very little clock left... >>
Not knocking Brady but if a team was down 4 on it's last drive, I would take the three listed and in the context of actually watching the games as they unfold.
Having said that, down 3 or less, Brady gets in over Favre.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Montana had great numbers, but his performance under pressure has to be by far the most impressive of any QB I have ever personally witnessed. >>
Agreed.
I would put Elway just slightly below Montana in that light. Favre would be #3 because of his INTs (live/die by the gunslinging arm). >>
Brady is up there with those guys, yes he failed in the last Super Bowl but there were a ton of curcumstances to go with that as well-like ZERO protection for starters, not to mention very little clock left... >>
Not knocking Brady but if a team was down 4 on it's last drive, I would take the three listed and in the context of actually watching the games as they unfold.
Having said that, down 3 or less, Brady gets in over Favre.
And Im OK with that, obviously opinions will vary when it comes down to it.
ebay i.d. clydecoolidge - Lots of vintage stars and HOFers, raw, condition fully disclosed.
<< <i>Montana may be the best. He was also a benficiary of some superb talent around him, and his four rings are as much their doing as his. Without that talent, no four rings. No four rings, everybody sings a different tune. So most definately people get their judgement clouded by the number of rings. However, Montana showed enough without the virtue of 'rings' to put his name into the best ever hat.
The thing that bothers me is the total lack of understanding(though some posters already pointed it out) of why QB's from in the 70's and prior don't put up great passer stats(well as great as Favre, Brady, etc...). It isn't because they weren't as good. It is the rules of the game, plain and simple.
Roger Staubach was better than Brady. He was better than Elway. I can say that with great confidence. He was as good as Favre. Staubach was probably the best QB in his league FIVE times, and that is with missing all that time with his military committment! Sure, his 'numbers' don't compare to guys now, but they certainly compared to the guys who played under similar rules!
Everybody talks about Montana and Brady being cool under pressure. Lucky for them they never had to face the pressure that guys like Staubach did! That is the pressure from a league where defense was allowed to put real pressure on a QB, from the physical play allowed by the DB's, to the man handling allowed by the line. As one poster pointed out, Brady looked very mortal when he was pressured in the Super Bowl. Imagine having to face stuff like that all the time.
I am confident that guys like Staubach who proved their medal in the rules of the NFL of their time, could have no problem succeeding in the PASSER FRIENDLY rules of today. On the other side of the coin, I can't say that with confidence about guys like Brady doing the reverse. He may be able to, but then again, he could struggle. That is an unknown...but an unknown that does not favor today's QB's.
What I do know is that guys like Staubach, who were the best in their league for a number of seasons, are getting a severe slap in the face when they are being made inferior when compared to QB's who may have been the best QB in their league only once or twice.
Then there is Fran Tarkenton, who was also as good as these guys...but it is the clouded judgement by three Super Bowl loses that people lose their focus. All sorts of reasons go into why he has no rings...just as why a big dropped pass could have cost Staubach another ring! Rings are team accompishements, not individual.
I would not mind choosing among
Unitas
Graham
Baugh
Montana
Staubach
Marino
Guys still active I would like to see more first. I would like to see them also be the best passer without the best WR in the league too. That is where Favre gets a big boost. His WR core was never elite. >>
Overall an interesting point, but the players were smaller back then and it could also be argued that quarterbacking was actually more dangerous up until only a few years ago...with some 300 pound, fast monster hitting the QB instead of a smaller, slower individual. With the new rules in effect the last few seasons, quarterbacking is probably safer than it's ever been, but again it's only been for a few seasons.
<< <i>Anyway my top list;
1 Unitas
2 Montana
3 Baugh
4 Marino
5 Graham
>>
The list that I formed in my head is exactly the same as the one jaxxr already posted - truly great minds do think alike. But, I think hoopster is right that Staubach deserves a place on that list, too. I'll call it a tie for 5th with Graham.
Most importantly, an enormous thank you to everyone here for leaving Troy Aikman's name out of this discussion. If you had this discussion here in Big D, you'd get about 50% agreement that he was the greatest QB ever, while the other 50% would agree that he was the Lord our God.
<< <i>Hypothetical of course, but there is no doubt in my mind that if Montana is quarterbacking the Patriots in that last drive versus the Giants in the Super Bowl, Montana gets the win. Tom Brady is not on the same level as Joe Montana was, and frankly I don't think it's even that close. >>
Oh my god Steve gimme a freakin break with this one!
<< <i>Most importantly, an enormous thank you to everyone here for leaving Troy Aikman's name out of this discussion. >>
He's an overrated sissy that doesn't deserve to be in the same breath as the others.
Marino did have good teammates. Clayton and Duper may have been the second best wide reciever duo in the NFL; the offensive line was better than both the 49ers and Broncos. Montana had better teammates, but Elway didn't and he went to three Super Bowls in the 80s compared to one for Marino. Then when he did have great teams around him, the Broncos still needed an MVP performance from their quarterback to win
Brett Favre's interceptions have done a lot to hurt the Packers, but other than that he has done nearly everything possible to help the team. Three MVP awards, then another six Pro Bowl seasons, then another three seasons where he was definitely one of the top five or six at his position, then another four where he was probably top 10. Never missing a game. That means for 16 straight seasons the Packers had either the best or one of the best quarterbacks under center every single week. No one else has ever given their team that much of an advantage
But of course all those interceptions keep him from being better than Montana. While the 49ers were a good team, other than Montana they are pretty far behind the 90s Cowboys and 70s Steelers, recent Patriots teams. Yet to still equal (and even surpass) those teams in winning gives a lot of credit to the quarterback.
Unitas still played against part-time competition, though a little better than Graham, still had great teams around him, but that doesn't account for him being the best at his position even more times than Favre
1. Montana
2. Favre
3. Unitas
4. Elway
5. Brady -- rememeber even All-Pro lineman from the 80s are the size of a lot modern running backs. Brady fifth is more about how much better abled modern players are than about how much he has been able to dominate the game
1. Warren Moon
2. Doug Williams
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Vince Young
(I won't mention that guy from Atlanta)
<< <i>Please help me if I'm missing any of the greatest black quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL........
1. Warren Moon
2. Doug Williams
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Vince Young
(I won't mention that guy from Atlanta) >>
Randall Cunningham!
<< <i>
<< <i>Please help me if I'm missing any of the greatest black quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL........
1. Warren Moon
2. Doug Williams
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Vince Young
(I won't mention that guy from Atlanta) >>
Randall Cunningham! >>
Thanks Perkdog. Where would Randall go on that list ? Maybe McNabb should be ahead of Williams, but Doug played
great the year the Redskins won the big one. Donovan just always seemed to let his team down. Never a very polished
QB either IMO.
BTW, my dad is down in Fort Meyers right now soaking up some 84 degree weather and Red Sox baseball at the tune
of $45.00 a ticket. I'm jealous !
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Please help me if I'm missing any of the greatest black quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL........
1. Warren Moon
2. Doug Williams
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Vince Young
(I won't mention that guy from Atlanta) >>
Randall Cunningham! >>
Thanks Perkdog. Where would Randall go on that list ? Maybe McNabb should be ahead of Williams, but Doug played
great the year the Redskins won the big one. Donovan just always seemed to let his team down. Never a very polished
QB either IMO.
BTW, my dad is down in Fort Meyers right now soaking up some 84 degree weather and Red Sox baseball at the tune
of $45.00 a ticket. I'm jealous ! >>
Lucky him! I wish I was there! As far as THAT list I gotta put Randall at # 2 behind Moon. Doug Williams won the Super Bowl but other than that not much else surrounds him enough to be one of the best IMO, Im a big fan of McNabb though, I dont hold injuries against players-McNabb has been off to MVP type seasons before getting hurt, a few years ago I remember him throwing 4td's against the cardinals with a broken ankle! Vince Young hasnt been around long enough to warrent consideration as far as Im concerned...Dante Culpepper was off to a great start but went down hill after losing his best receivers in Moss and Carter. My list would go like this-
1-Moon
2-Randall Cunningham
3-McNabb
4-Doug Williams
Lets see Young play a few more years and revisit this! Also, its a longshot I know but maybe Culpepper will return to form if he lands in the right situation again..
Dave
<< <i>McNair is definitely better than Williams and so far Gerrard has been a whole lot better than Young >>
Good call on McNair, I never liked him but I will give him his due.
May he burn in dog hades but based upon their performance to date, Vick blows Young out of the water.
Just off the top of my head: Moon, McNair, Cunningham, McNabb, Culpepper, and I'm sure there's more...
1st - Marino did not have a pro bowl WR after his 3rd year and one time he had 1000 yd RB - he carried so much he had 2.9 yds per carry.
2nd - Marino had no line protection, he did it with a quick release
3rd - Marino could not move and still was not sacked often (although he was hit a lot)
4th - Marino never had a top 5 defense (BTW, no superbowl champion has ever won a SB without a top 5 defense - not even Montana)
Let's face it Marino on 3rd and 1 threw, everyone knew he was going to throw and he still completed the pass.
you can't blame the guy because he played for a team that while he can throw 5 TDs in a game his defense gave up 6 tds. Can you imagine if Marino had a Defensive team like the Bears, 49ers, Steelers or Pats.... Can you imagine if Marino had Rice or Swann/Stalworth or Harrison/wayne or the Rams WRs a few years ago... Can you imagine f Marino had a RB like the bus, TD, Faulk, Csonka or Harris...Can you imagine if Marino played in Aikman's Cowboys.....
Not saying Marino is the best, because that is not argument anyone can win but he is in the top 3.
Redefining the question into the modern era, then the answers are reasonable.
There are no best QBs of all time because the game clearly has changed over the years.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think we can all agree it's asinine for ESPN to ignore the first 50 years of the NFL in their poll. So, including guys like Graham, Unitas, and Starr, and applying some logic, how does it play out? I disagree a little, but it's the best article I've read on the subject.
Joe
Even Brady, to some degree, was slighted before this season in the "best of all-time" discussions because he never put up the monster stats. One year with a quality supporting cast, and he puts up the best numbers in history. If he had Peyton Manning's weapons, he might have averaged 40 TDs/year up to this point in his career.