Thanks y'all - being new to these boards, I of course had not seen this thread. When I saw what it was, I had to look. And now I've spent a (very enjoyable) hour looking at all these coins....
I am collecting a typeset of British shillings, one from each monarch. I have completed back to King William III, with a few earlier (but more holes back before that). Here is one of them:
<< <i>An unexpectedly good purchase for me at yesterday's St. James's sale. The 1601 pattern halfpenny (lot 556) given as ex Foster and Nicholson. A spot of judicious digging today has revealed it is also ex Brice, Montagu, Murdoch, Hazlitt, Watters, Blyth, Clarke-Thornhill and Gantz. For good measure, it's weight of 17.16 grains also matches exactly that of the Earl of Pembroke's (d.1733) piece which was unfortunately bought by a dealer at the Sothebys sale in 1848 when the collection was dispersed. Nonetheless . Bought at the 4th opportunity. >>
Rob, what year was the Montagu Sale, and do you know what was Montagu's first name, etc. Thanks.
Michael, nice tanner; long time, no see. Sláinte mhath!
Hyman Montagu's British collection was sold in 5 sales from 1895-7. This appears to have been lot 7 from sale 4 (15-17th July 1897). The illustration in the Montagu catalogue isn't very good as the whole coin looks very grainy, but the Hazlitt image is much better showing a mark where the wax has remained on the coin in the excess metal region and by the stop. Further identification is helped by the angled mark at the base of the B in the mongram and the mark on the upper loop of the B - features which are not present on the ex- Parsons and Lockett pieces, whilst Rogers' former example is in a lower grade in any case. The BM's example was acquired from the Devonshire sale (1848) and the Hunterian Museum's piece was acquired even earlier. Peck bought Lockett's coin which is why the 6 pieces examined do not include the latter's.
Something a bit older this time. A Galerius AE follis struck ca.303-305AD at the London mint during the rebellion at the end of the 3rd century. RIC 15.
A request for anyone who has examples of Weyl patterns to contact me please in connection with an article I am writing. A previous thread went unanswered, so last call on this one before I finish. For the record this is the 1860 gold plain edge uniface penny (P2149). Ex Murdoch & Roberts
A Civil War halfcrown from either the Worcester or Salopia (Shrewsbury) mint (Allen D-23). The reverse die is the focus of interest here as it unique to this coin for the halfcrown series, but was also used on a shilling where that coin is also unique to the denomination - see Vincent's article in the 1956 BNJ.
Arrived earlier in the week - Hampshire Gosport DH #2, issued by Skidmore for collectors. The standards inscribed SPAIN, FRANCE and HOLLAND have their shafts broken, the forth standard is inscribed PEACE, with the British flag standing tall in the center. From the DNW sale last year of the first part of Robbie Brown's collection (there are 3 more sales scheduled of his collection, 1 each fall).
The standards refer to Sir John Jervis' victory over the Spanish fleet off Cape St. Vincent in Feb. 1797, Admiral Duncan's victory over the Dutch fleet under De Winter in Oct. 1797, and Admiral Nelson's victory of the Nile in August 1798.
R.I.P. Wayne, Brad Collecting: Conder tokens 19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
Is it just me, or is this lion not looking as majestic as he should?
I figure he's pretty dejected about what he's been called upon to endorse: a medicine for worms!
Or maybe he's GOT worms!
Seriously, does anyone have any insight or background on whether the Crown collected some form of royalties from merchants who used the royal arms in their advertising?
In any event, this lion resides on Middlesex D&H 282...whole I. Ching token here:
Best to all ~ Tom
I never pay too much for my tokens...but every now and then I may buy them too soon.
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
A wrong'un. A Hawkins 3a3 Charles I civil war half crown with mintmark eye dating it to 1645 which should weigh approximately 15g but actually weighs 5.91g as it was struck on a shilling flan in error. Ex Rashleigh 919, Farquhar 46, Brooker 361, XXXXX and Adams 134. Probably unique.
The 1889/8 halfpenny shown above went to PCGS as a free submission and came back a grade better than the ANACS slab it was in - MS64RB. Finally, I come out ahead in the plastic game!
Recent pick-up, a Withers 1700/Davis Not-Local 41 (RR) in pretty good shape.
This was listed at auction as "unidentified."
I guess no one else took the trouble to research it, since I was the only bidder and thus snagged it for a song...or else everyone but me knows what it is and didn't want it, or they already have one. In any case, I'd never seen one before in my quarter-century of focusing on this sort of material, so it felt like a real coup to me. Is that delusionary thinking, or what?
Neither Davis nor Withers provides any attribution, so to that extent it is indeed unidentified. It's halfpenny size, so very underweight for a penny; thus, per Sharp via Davis, it didn't see much circulation. Withers says it "may possibly be a truck ticket." That's it for background.
If anyone has any information about issuer, attribution, etc., please share!
Best to all ~ Tom
I never pay too much for my tokens...but every now and then I may buy them too soon.
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
<< <i>Recent pick-up, a Withers 1700/Davis Not-Local 41 (RR) in pretty good shape.
This was listed at auction as "unidentified."
I guess no one else took the trouble to research it, since I was the only bidder and thus snagged it for a song...or else everyone but me knows what it is and didn't want it, or they already have one. In any case, I'd never seen one before in my quarter-century of focusing on this sort of material, so it felt like a real coup to me. Is that delusionary thinking, or what?
Neither Davis nor Withers provides any attribution, so to that extent it is indeed unidentified. It's halfpenny size, so very underweight for a penny; thus, per Sharp via Davis, it didn't see much circulation. Withers says it "may possibly be a truck ticket." That's it for background.
If anyone has any information about issuer, attribution, etc., please share!
Best to all ~ Tom
>>
I presume it is Davis 41 as described or is this description possibly too vague? The description in Davis says H H with both Hs having the same scroll shape, but I think it could equally or even more likely read H N. Neither the initials HH nor HN however offer any possible lead based on the list of issuers in Davis. An alternative approach might be to check the letter punches and compare them with known token manufacturers' products as a starting point. This won't give a definitive issuer, but would at least confirm who made them which is one step closer. The Es look a good bet as does the P with a weak serif on the right side of the foot, not to mention the wavy foot of the T or the 1s of the date which have a faulty(?) top serif. Also check each letter for a characteristic pit or pits which would be derived from the punch(es) used.
Thanks for the tips, Rob...got my work cut out for me. Now suppose I determine it's the work of Thomason. What would the next step be to get me closer to an attribution? Just curious how the research would unfold.
No doubt it's Davis 41. Withers includes a photo.
I never pay too much for my tokens...but every now and then I may buy them too soon.
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
<< <i>Thanks for the tips, Rob...got my work cut out for me. Now suppose I determine it's the work of Thomason. What would the next step be to get me closer to an attribution? Just curious how the research would unfold.
No doubt it's Davis 41. Withers includes a photo. >>
I guess that means it is what Paul has attributed to Davis 41 in the absence of any token reading HN or showing the design. Davis, Paul Withers, Me, You, we are all working from a blank sheet because nobody knows who made it or for whom. The next step has to be reading, reading and then for a change some more reading. It's research time. Museums with a good sample base, D&H, Davis or any other tome detailing tokens and the manufacturers. Serendipity is a word that springs to mind. You don't know what you are looking for, but when you find it, it will jump out at you. e.g. did a particular manufacturer produce more for one area than another? Who is noted as issuing tokens or not in 1814? I still think checking the letter punches is the easiest way to link to the manufacturer though assuming you have a large enough sample base to examine.
Comments
I am collecting a typeset of British shillings, one from each monarch. I have completed back to King William III, with a few earlier (but more holes back before that). Here is one of them:
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>An unexpectedly good purchase for me at yesterday's St. James's sale. The 1601 pattern halfpenny (lot 556) given as ex Foster and Nicholson. A spot of judicious digging today has revealed it is also ex Brice, Montagu, Murdoch, Hazlitt, Watters, Blyth, Clarke-Thornhill and Gantz. For good measure, it's weight of 17.16 grains also matches exactly that of the Earl of Pembroke's (d.1733) piece which was unfortunately bought by a dealer at the Sothebys sale in 1848 when the collection was dispersed. Nonetheless
Rob, what year was the Montagu Sale, and do you know what was Montagu's first name, etc. Thanks.
Michael, nice tanner; long time, no see. Sláinte mhath!
to send off to PCGS.
I didn't photograph all the coins but these are typical; really gorgeous toning.....
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
Welcome aboard, physicsfan!
Don't forget those non-Regal shillings, too!
Best to all ~
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
I'm probably going to expand to the Irish and Scottish issues (and probably colonial) before I go to the tokens. But that is a nice one!
So here are a few.
What about the colonies? Can we do those, too? They're British, and yet they're not.
Here's a proof pattern farthing of 1798.
Conder Token Gallery https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMCiunai6NjOxoo3zREkCsAnNm4vONzieO3u7tHyhm8peZmRD_A0MXmnWT2dzJ-nw?key=Rlo2YklUSWtEY1NWc3BfVm90ZEUwU25jLUZueG9n
Just bringing a little sunshine...
Best to all!
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
on a couple of occasions.
I posted this earlier but best I've found lately.
It's a British proof farthing pulled from a 1953 GB Proof set that I have reasonably high hopes for....
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>1953? Perhaps you mean 1950 or 1951?? >>
Surely not. IND IMP was dropped in 1949. 1937 would be more appropriate, but if it is 1950 or 1951 muled with an obsolete die, please PM me.
This is from a 1937 set.
I confuse easily.
Obviously
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
PCGS MS65 1901 3d
And I'll reprise this 1901 Half Penny because the good folk at PCGS have just told me they've graded it MS64RD.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Here's one of my Heritage wins.
A shout out to Mac, who eyeballed this coin in my absence.
Conder Token Gallery https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMCiunai6NjOxoo3zREkCsAnNm4vONzieO3u7tHyhm8peZmRD_A0MXmnWT2dzJ-nw?key=Rlo2YklUSWtEY1NWc3BfVm90ZEUwU25jLUZueG9n
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
Great start Denver!
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
The standards refer to Sir John Jervis' victory over the Spanish fleet off Cape St. Vincent in Feb. 1797, Admiral Duncan's victory over the Dutch fleet under De Winter in Oct. 1797, and Admiral Nelson's victory of the Nile in August 1798.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
<< <i>Here's a Newp, my first...
*drools*
This one is Portsmouth 67 (also Hampshire), and the great edge inscription reads: "A VALENTINE PRESENTED TO SPAIN BY ADML. JERVIS."
(Check the date under the depiction of the battle.)
Best to all ~
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
A very clear design statement
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
Is it just me, or is this lion not looking as majestic as he should?
I figure he's pretty dejected about what he's been called upon to endorse: a medicine for worms!
Or maybe he's GOT worms!
Seriously, does anyone have any insight or background on whether the Crown collected some form
of royalties from merchants who used the royal arms in their advertising?
In any event, this lion resides on Middlesex D&H 282...whole I. Ching token here:
Best to all ~
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
This one looks a little tougher, but he's off to see the wizards at PCGS now.
We'll see tough he looks in a body bag
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Charles I, Shilling, mm (R) 1644-1645, Spink 2800
it past the PCGS body bag.
From an original 1953 GB proof set.....
It's just that I got my PCGS grades.
1889, 9 over 8 Halfpenny, cracked out of an ANACS holder, will go to PCGS some day.
Well, just Love coins, period.
And lest we forget, a Happy Independence Day to all, including our friends in and from the UK!
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
Crummy picture inside a slab, unfortunately.
Here is the 1856 with a longer line, for comparison. The 5 and 6 are quite a bit further apart as well. Soon to be a Brit Tip.
This was listed at auction as "unidentified."
I guess no one else took the trouble to research it, since I was the only bidder
and thus snagged it for a song...or else everyone but me knows what it is and
didn't want it, or they already have one. In any case, I'd never seen one before
in my quarter-century of focusing on this sort of material, so it felt like a real
coup to me. Is that delusionary thinking, or what?
Neither Davis nor Withers provides any attribution, so to that extent it is indeed
unidentified. It's halfpenny size, so very underweight for a penny; thus, per Sharp
via Davis, it didn't see much circulation. Withers says it "may possibly be a truck
ticket." That's it for background.
If anyone has any information about issuer, attribution, etc., please share!
Best to all ~
Tom
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
<< <i>Recent pick-up, a Withers 1700/Davis Not-Local 41 (RR) in pretty good shape.
This was listed at auction as "unidentified."
I guess no one else took the trouble to research it, since I was the only bidder
and thus snagged it for a song...or else everyone but me knows what it is and
didn't want it, or they already have one. In any case, I'd never seen one before
in my quarter-century of focusing on this sort of material, so it felt like a real
coup to me. Is that delusionary thinking, or what?
Neither Davis nor Withers provides any attribution, so to that extent it is indeed
unidentified. It's halfpenny size, so very underweight for a penny; thus, per Sharp
via Davis, it didn't see much circulation. Withers says it "may possibly be a truck
ticket." That's it for background.
If anyone has any information about issuer, attribution, etc., please share!
Best to all ~
Tom
I presume it is Davis 41 as described or is this description possibly too vague? The description in Davis says H H with both Hs having the same scroll shape, but I think it could equally or even more likely read H N. Neither the initials HH nor HN however offer any possible lead based on the list of issuers in Davis. An alternative approach might be to check the letter punches and compare them with known token manufacturers' products as a starting point. This won't give a definitive issuer, but would at least confirm who made them which is one step closer. The Es look a good bet as does the P with a weak serif on the right side of the foot, not to mention the wavy foot of the T or the 1s of the date which have a faulty(?) top serif. Also check each letter for a characteristic pit or pits which would be derived from the punch(es) used.
Conder Token Gallery https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMCiunai6NjOxoo3zREkCsAnNm4vONzieO3u7tHyhm8peZmRD_A0MXmnWT2dzJ-nw?key=Rlo2YklUSWtEY1NWc3BfVm90ZEUwU25jLUZueG9n
Now suppose I determine it's the work of Thomason.
What would the next step be to get me closer to an
attribution? Just curious how the research would
unfold.
No doubt it's Davis 41. Withers includes a photo.
Proud (but humbled) "You Suck" Designee, February 2010.
<< <i>Thanks for the tips, Rob...got my work cut out for me.
Now suppose I determine it's the work of Thomason.
What would the next step be to get me closer to an
attribution? Just curious how the research would
unfold.
No doubt it's Davis 41. Withers includes a photo. >>
I guess that means it is what Paul has attributed to Davis 41 in the absence of any token reading HN or showing the design. Davis, Paul Withers, Me, You, we are all working from a blank sheet because nobody knows who made it or for whom. The next step has to be reading, reading and then for a change some more reading. It's research time. Museums with a good sample base, D&H, Davis or any other tome detailing tokens and the manufacturers. Serendipity is a word that springs to mind. You don't know what you are looking for, but when you find it, it will jump out at you. e.g. did a particular manufacturer produce more for one area than another? Who is noted as issuing tokens or not in 1814? I still think checking the letter punches is the easiest way to link to the manufacturer though assuming you have a large enough sample base to examine.