That special coin is coming up for sale, and you know you will have competition. Possible solutions
TahoeDale
Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
I'm sure others besides me have been waiting for years to get the last/special date in the grade you need for your collection. It now appears to be in an upcoming auction, and you want to do everything possible to get it.
Let's assume that it is market valued at $2500 or 250,000. Either price range could apply.
What do you do to be the winning bidder?
Some thoughts: View the coin with an expert in the series. The coin may not be all there. Your emotions could overcome the bad hits on the reverse, and somewhat mottled toning.
Research all the relevant auction history. And try to estimate price trends. If the date and grade has not sold in 5 to 10 years, you will need to do some extrapolation.
Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up.
What is the reserve, if any. This information is usually available, even at auction houses other than Heritage.
Phone, internet, or live bidding. It will probably make a difference.
Try to find out who your competition is.
This may seem like a lot of work/preparation but it may be necessary.
Lastly, set a limit, and it may be to the moon. But at least all that money you eventually pay will have been thought out beforehand.
Let's assume that it is market valued at $2500 or 250,000. Either price range could apply.
What do you do to be the winning bidder?
Some thoughts: View the coin with an expert in the series. The coin may not be all there. Your emotions could overcome the bad hits on the reverse, and somewhat mottled toning.
Research all the relevant auction history. And try to estimate price trends. If the date and grade has not sold in 5 to 10 years, you will need to do some extrapolation.
Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up.
What is the reserve, if any. This information is usually available, even at auction houses other than Heritage.
Phone, internet, or live bidding. It will probably make a difference.
Try to find out who your competition is.
This may seem like a lot of work/preparation but it may be necessary.
Lastly, set a limit, and it may be to the moon. But at least all that money you eventually pay will have been thought out beforehand.
TahoeDale
0
Comments
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Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up.
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This is not good at all. You have a shot at a coin once in ten years and you are concerned about whether it will cross?? Doesn't make sense. Usually for coins like this the only thing that matters is if they are authentic. Put it this way - can anyone name a coin which sells only once every ten years (federal series, not any of this R-8 stuff from the medal collectors!) where you would be concerned what kind of holder it was in?
Most would probably care if it was PCGS or NGC but I do not think it matters whether it is PCGS or NGC.
But then again I may be biased????
It just happened to me. I wanted the 1875 aluminum pattern $1 die trial strike. I went out and simply asked the dealer who I feared would be my competitor to represent me.
Dealer declined to represent me since the dealer was already representing someone else. Very nice about it too.
Pleasant discussion about everything but the pattern itself as to avoid collusion.
But I knew I was going to do the right thing. Just bid my top price as a proxy bid and let it ride. I lost by two bids.
I could have gone higher but at to what ends, even though nearly irreplaceable???
I learned long ago not to get crazed when I could not find the stopper coin for my set back in the 1970's when I was actually in tears when I failed over and over to complete my set. What was it? The 1926-S cent in Gem Red condition (before the numeric grading).
The old term that should be used is "stopper."
the new term is "irreplaceable."
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Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Before commenting on the above, I will need to confer with Dorkarl.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up. >>
I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all.
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<< <i>Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up. >>
I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all. >>
What if this coin is for a registry set? Would it matter then?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>
<< <i>Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up. >>
I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all. >>
What if this coin is for a registry set? Would it matter then? >>
Depends on the goal of the registry set. Is it for points, does it have photos, is it to show off nice coins?
Solution...is it worth the plane ticket and a day to go to the show and hold the coin? Could you trust someone to look at it for you and tell you what they think, someone that would know the price, availability, demand, quality. For someone to know those things about the coin, certainly they would be a competing bidder and not someone you would want to "look" at the coin for you. Ulitmately, it is the collectors decision to determine the value of the coin, the place in his/her collection, the amount of dilligence that needs to be exercised when stalking a coin...
Coin ON!
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<< <i>
<< <i>Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up. >>
I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all. >>
What if this coin is for a registry set? Would it matter then? >>
This was not the scenario presented by the OP.
To me, the most important considerations when buying any coin would be eye-appeal, originality, luster, surfaces, provenance, etc., whether I intended to keep the coin raw, slab it, put it in a Registry Set, or display it on my wall.*
* Your criteria may be different.
There are several dates in high grade that I would not chase in the present holder is other than PCGS, unless I felt real comfortable that the coin would cross.
And the PCGS grade may not meet my needs, unless I thought it was real pq for grade, and might upgrade.
Examples:
1886 lib nickel in 66. If in an NGC slab, not going after it unless really is a 66.
1807 draped bust half in 65. Again, if it is an NGC slab.
1797 9x7 small letters dollar, AU 53. If an OGH, I would try real hard. If in an AU55 other TPG, not near as hard.
While it is the coin that matters most, the final price may be higher than the coin deserves, because of the higher grade on the other than PCGS slab.
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<< <i>Will the coin cross from the present slab to PCGS? Does it have a chance to upgrade? This is surely the most important factor in deciding to pay up. >>
I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all. >>
Hmmm - I'm gonna have to disagree here. In some cases, it is indeed a factor. Two disparate instances:
I purchased my MS65 1873-CC seated dollar in an NGC holder. Did it matter to me whether the coin would cross or not? Heck no - it's the finest by 4 grades ... so even if it's technically a 64 it just doesn't matter.
I was offered a beautiful NGC seated dollar that is the finest known but had recently been upgraded. Yes, it's the finest known for the date but only by about half a point. No, it won't cross. And it was more than double the price of the coin that I had purchased in the same holder at the same grade, but downgraded because I thought it was weak for the grade. Is half a point worth $87,500? I don't think so!
Your 2nd example is exactly what I was referring to. That is the positive effect of the grade on the slab, that will make, in many instances, the final price to be higher than perhaps it should.
Now, if we could get our friend Jay to start reading some of these threads, maybe his would be more intelligent, not just bi-polar rants.
I did this for one of my key dates. He said he hated it and I bid any way.
For the series I collect (Lincolns), the most important thing is to view the coin in hand. Period. Once the decision is made to go after the coin, I will bid aggressively. I prefer to bid in person and for myself.
Jack
3 years ago, I was at an ANR sale of the New York connosiuor sale in Baltimore. A fab 1803 ED was in the sale, and I had viewed the coin raw, early in the consignment, before it was slabbed(2 times, as it turns out).
My opinion of the grade, before slabbing, was PQ 58, with a shot at MS 62. And I was already trying to decide how much I could bid for this very special coin. Great toning and strike, but with some rub in a couple of areas.
When the coin appeared in the catalog, it was NGC 63. Too high in my opinion, and the only coin from the collection that was NGC graded--all others were PCGS.
So I investigated, and found out that on the first time through, PCGS graded the coin AU 58. But the auction company thought that was just not right, and sent it to NGC, where it made the 63 grade.
The coin hammered at $70,000, and I dropped out around $30,000. The higher grade caused at least 2 bidders to go over the moon.
<< <i>I think I may have the best example of why the TPG service will affect my decision on how far to stretch for the special coin.
3 years ago, I was at an ANR sale of the New York connosiuor sale in Baltimore. A fab 1803 ED was in the sale, and I had viewed the coin raw, early in the consignment, before it was slabbed(2 times, as it turns out).
My opinion of the grade, before slabbing, was PQ 58, with a shot at MS 62. And I was already trying to decide how much I could bid for this very special coin. Great toning and strike, but with some rub in a couple of areas.
When the coin appeared in the catalog, it was NGC 63. Too high in my opinion, and the only coin from the collection that was NGC graded--all others were PCGS.
So I investigated, and found out that on the first time through, PCGS graded the coin AU 58. But the auction company thought that was just not right, and sent it to NGC, where it made the 63 grade.
The coin hammered at $70,000, and I dropped out around $30,000. The higher grade caused at least 2 bidders to go over the moon. >>
And then a few months later it was crossed to 63 by PCGS.
<I would say this is either the last thing I would consider, or something I wouldn't consider at all. >
Hmmm - I'm gonna have to disagree here. In some cases, it is indeed a factor. Two disparate instances:
I purchased my MS65 1873-CC seated dollar in an NGC holder. Did it matter to me whether the coin would cross or not? Heck no - it's the finest by 4 grades ... so even if it's technically a 64 it just doesn't matter.
I was offered a beautiful NGC seated dollar that is the finest known but had recently been upgraded. Yes, it's the finest known for the date but only by about half a point. No, it won't cross. And it was more than double the price of the coin that I had purchased in the same holder at the same grade, but downgraded because I thought it was weak for the grade. Is half a point worth $87,500? I don't think so! >>
Perfect examples. The 73-CC is a "must buy" coin. Forget the analysis and just buy it. The second coin, while nice and rare, is still essentially a quantifiable widget with a "proper" value. It's necessary to think that one through. Of course, the widget won't be the stopper to your set, and (as I read it) is not what the OP is really about.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I think I may have the best example of why the TPG service will affect my decision on how far to stretch for the special coin.
3 years ago, I was at an ANR sale of the New York connosiuor sale in Baltimore. A fab 1803 ED was in the sale, and I had viewed the coin raw, early in the consignment, before it was slabbed(2 times, as it turns out).
My opinion of the grade, before slabbing, was PQ 58, with a shot at MS 62. And I was already trying to decide how much I could bid for this very special coin. Great toning and strike, but with some rub in a couple of areas.
When the coin appeared in the catalog, it was NGC 63. Too high in my opinion, and the only coin from the collection that was NGC graded--all others were PCGS.
So I investigated, and found out that on the first time through, PCGS graded the coin AU 58. But the auction company thought that was just not right, and sent it to NGC, where it made the 63 grade.
The coin hammered at $70,000, and I dropped out around $30,000. The higher grade caused at least 2 bidders to go over the moon. >>
I have had this problem a lot lately. NGC in both my opinion and PCGS's opinion is overtrading many half eagles by as much as 2-3 points.
<< <i>Sometimes it's very difficult to separate the grade on the holder from the quality of the coin. I just had an extensive conversation with a dealer regarding an ultra rarity coming up for auction. The comment was made by the dealer that 'I don't like the coin'. My response was 'do you not like the coin for what the grade is? Cuz ALL of them are overgraded!' In this instance, what matters more is the relative quality of the coin - not that it doesn't match the grade on the holder. >>
I have to agree. If the coin looks good in any grade then it's just a matter of how much you are willing to spend. There are some real dogs in most grades that just make you go huhh on why it goes for so much money.
<< <i> Sometimes it's very difficult to separate the grade on the holder from the quality of the coin. I just had an extensive conversation with a dealer regarding an ultra rarity coming up for auction. The comment was made by the dealer that 'I don't like the coin'. My response was 'do you not like the coin for what the grade is? Cuz ALL of them are overgraded!' In this instance, what matters more is the relative quality of the coin - not that it doesn't match the grade on the holder. >>
Well said.
I hesistate to call the finest known seated dollar example for the date a 'widget'.
TDN - I can't blame you for having a bias.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.