counterfeit ruth aaron cobb mantle what is psa doing?

armourlarry · February 17, 2008 8:03AM

the rash of counterfeits psa 8 1956 mantles 33 goudey ruths [sa 54 aarons psa 7 and t 206 cobbs that are appearing in counterfeit psa holders and labels
3 ,ore ended today...and the buyers im sure have no clue
i havent seen psa response to this problem yet

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 8:09AM

Larry

are you saying the cards were authenticated by PSA?

or are you saying someone took fake cards and planted them inside
a PSA slab?

If it is the latter what would you like for PSA to do?

How would they even know what was happening?

Steve

RipublicaninMass · February 17, 2008 8:20AM

"Silence speaks volumes"

Stone193 · February 17, 2008 8:29AM

<< <i>Larry

are you saying the cards were authenticated by PSA?

or are you saying someone took fake cards and planted them inside
a PSA slab?

If it is the latter what would you like for PSA to do?

How would they even know what was happening?

Steve >>

Steve

If ya go back and check - he said in "counterfeit psa holders and labels."

I wish he would've put a link?

mike

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 8:32AM

Mike

yes I saw that but the way it was written I wanted to make sure.

yes a link would have been nice.

And if they are in counterfeit holders and PSA has no idea about it
what could they possibly do?

He came here and reports it, did he take the few moments and report it to CU?

Prolly not.

Steve

Gonblott · February 17, 2008 8:36AM

Provide a link please.

bluemarlin · February 17, 2008 8:54AM

I really don't see what PSA can do about this anyways,It's up to the buyers to be a little more knowledgeable of what they're buying.

Jake

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 9:25AM

You know i bought a bottle of rum the other day and water was in the bottle.

What is Captain Morgan doing about this?

Steve

armourlarry · February 17, 2008 9:27AM

psa was notified about it months ago..i havent seen anywhere what is being done
i understand the fbi has gotten involved though from a person who bought the cards and got stuck
there are 7 cards at least that are counterfeit and put into psa holders with counterfeit labels
the psa code# isthe same....so all counterfeit 56 mantle psa 8s have the same psa # which matches a legitimate psa 8 56 mantle..so if you check psa site it looks legit
they put in counterfeit cards with counterfeit labels
they have been sold all over the country including thru ebay
here is 1 item #
150215511805
then go to his completed auctions
33 goudey ruth in a 5
56 mantle in an 8
54 aaron in a 7

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 9:30AM

So if the FBI has gotten involved what would you like for PSA to do?

these cards were being sold on craigs list as well.

Larry, maybe email Joe@collectors.com with your concerns?

Steve

JeffD27177 · February 17, 2008 9:37AM

I can't find any such ebay auction #150215511805.

Please provide a link, a seller id, or even a picture of one of the cards so we can see what you're talking about. Thanks.

armourlarry · February 17, 2008 9:44AM

well i think it would be nice if psa in conjunction with ebay posted on their websites a warning
and yes these cards did start out by appearing on craigs list
just go to completed auctions psa 5 goudey ruth

digicat · February 17, 2008 9:46AM

Found them. Ebay seller bcsell3r.

Completed auctions

iamthegreatcornholio · February 17, 2008 9:49AM

is this it?

link

these guys always buy weirdo crap

seahorse food?

44Magnum · February 17, 2008 9:55AM

Here is another one currently up for sale with the same serial number.

link

armourlarry · February 17, 2008 10:21AM

good find
different cards same serial #

MantleMarisFordBerra · February 17, 2008 10:32AM

One of the main reason people buy graded cards, esp high ticket items like '33 Ruths, '56 Mantles & '54 Aarons is to ensure the card they are buying is legit. Looks like that is no longer the case. I feel I'm an experianced collector, but really, unless I had seen this and a handful of other threads I'd have no idea this was going on. Innocent people are losing their money, and I believe all grading companies, not just PSA, need to do something to combat this.

Morgoth · February 17, 2008 10:52AM

Yes thanks for posting this regardless of the criticisim you have received, this is a legitimate concern to us collectors.

storm888 · February 17, 2008 11:04AM

".......and I believe all grading companies, not just PSA, need to do something to combat this. ..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Got any suggestions?

ONE might be: NEVER buy an expensive item from a seller on "CraigsList."

TWO might be: ALWAYS be sure your EBAY seller is covered for the full
Buyer-Protection limit. (Soon, PSers will be fully covered with PP "Seller
Protection," and FULL Buyer-Protection will also be implemented.)

THREE might be: ALWAYS pay for your items with a high-end credit card that offers
FULL buyer-protection.

I am not sure that PSA has a remedy that they can offer. Law enforcement needs
to put some crooks behind bars for FIFTY-YEARS; that would deter some scumbags.
(Sadly, this society does not understand that capital-punishment is appropriate
for MANY kinds of financial crimes. The Chi-Coms get it; we don't.)

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 11:17AM

Yes thanks for posting this regardless of the criticisim you have received, this is a legitimate concern to us collectors.

Yes thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Steve

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 11:19AM

One of the main reason people buy graded cards, esp high ticket items like '33 Ruths, '56 Mantles & '54 Aarons is to ensure the card they are buying is legit. Looks like that is no longer the case. I feel I'm an experianced collector, but really, unless I had seen this and a handful of other threads I'd have no idea this was going on. Innocent people are losing their money, and I believe all grading companies, not just PSA, need to do something to combat this.

How about this? Buy from people you know or at the least have a store? People who try and get 5000.00 cards for 500.00
are the ones that this scam works on.

Also, be aware that hijacked ebay accounts may be selling these fakes.

Just because a card is in a slab does not mean that you are excused from due diligence for gods sake.

Steve

clydecoolidge · February 17, 2008 11:22AM

<< <i>well i think it would be nice if psa in conjunction with ebay posted on their websites a warning
and yes these cards did start out by appearing on craigs list
just go to completed auctions psa 5 goudey ruth >>

Sometimes posting info like this to the masses, can cause more copycats than there would have been if not made public. Anyone who is buying a high end card should be doing research and should be able to recognize a counterfit flip and holder. And ebay probably isn't the best place to buy a card like this anyway. Too many things can go wrong. I would look to reputable auction houses if I were going to make this sort of purchase.

11235813 · February 17, 2008 12:49PM

I would think that one thing that PSA could do would be to make their flips more difficult to counterfeit. They could use paper with watermarks and using multiple typefaces/fonts/font sizes for the lettering.

Compared to the flips from SGC, BVG, and GAI, PSA's flips are quite simplistic, using white paper with a red border and one uniform typeface throughout.

Stone193 · February 17, 2008 1:05PM

<< <i>I would think that one thing that PSA could do would be to make their flips more difficult to counterfeit. They could use paper with watermarks and using multiple typefaces/fonts/font sizes for the lettering.

Compared to the flips from SGC, BVG, and GAI, PSA's flips are quite simplistic, using white paper with a red border and one uniform typeface throughout. >>

I think it would be simple - produce a hologram on the flip that can't be copied - like UD cards.

Problem - it would be easier to fake it on a scan for an auction and then move on after the 'score.'

On the ebay sale - the guy with the bad Ruth flip? I would NEVER ever dream of bidding on an auction with a guy that has that bad of an ebay FB rating.

Good points tho.
mike

Tabe · February 17, 2008 3:36PM

Who the heck would bid on a card (like the PSA 5 Goudey Ruth) where the scans - *SCANS* mind you, not photos from a digital camera - are out of focus? Seriously. It's basically impossible to scan something and have it be out of focus - unless you manipulate the scan afterward to be out-of-focus. And only a scammer would do that.

Tabe

70chip · February 17, 2008 5:14PM

IMO, building on Tabe's post who in the bleeping freaking God's green earth would bid on a 33 Goudey Ruth, 56 Mantle, 82 TT Ripken (my personal love and it has no point in this post, but I digress LOL) et all.....without a sharp, clear scan? We all look for deals and "steals" but seriously does anyone really think they are going to get the 33 Ruth, the 52 Mantle, etc....from these jokesters? If I had that high dollar gradeable card and I wanted to sell it on fleabay, I would sure as hell provide clean. clear and pristine scans......and yes PSA's flip is way, way too easy to counterfeit...Again, JMO

70

torc · February 17, 2008 6:25PM

<< <i>

If it is the latter what would you like for PSA to do? >>

Well for starters make a slab that is stronger and more durable, rather than the cheap plastic easy to crack slabs they have now.

Of course all those collectors that like to crack and re-submit, might not like that idea
changing the type, or paper used on the labels won't stop someone from inserting a counterfeit card into a legit slab.
The slabs need to be made stronger, or with some kind of interior film that breaks away and is destroyed if cracked.

WinPitcher · February 17, 2008 6:56PM

Torc if they do that you do realize that you won't be able to get cards graded for 5.00?

How about people buy with due diligence?

Right now (right or wrong) PSA uses a slab that is tamper- evident.

stevek · February 17, 2008 7:23PM

Hate to say this...but it's naive people who think they can con somebody, who usually windup getting conned. An old saying is "You can't cheat an honest man" and for the most part that saying is true.

Nothing wrong with looking for a "great deal" or even sometimes a "steal" on ebay - under the right set of circumstances, and with the right items, that is still possible. "Right items" meaning items in which many if not most others out there aren't familiar with. But a great deal or a steal on the graded, very popular, key cards mentioned? Frankly, it just ain't gonna happen and if believing it could, and believing someone putting these cards on ebay is a babe-in-the-woods (like they pretend to be), then you're gonna get conned. If believing you're gonna steal cards like this off ebay, it is YOU who are a babe-in-the-woods, and you'll get fleeced of your money.

-

WinPitcher · February 18, 2008 12:40AM

What Stevek said is right on the money.

Due diligence people!

If the deal looks to good to be true it is!

Steve

counterfeit ruth aaron cobb mantle what is psa doing?

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