seanq, Yes, many forum members don't have a clue about manufacturing. It is easy to forget that laymen have never been in a factory or become familiar with industrial processes. And I don't mean to attack them but I've given up on trying to address every conspiricy theory based on how there is no excuse for errors at the mint. Many obsessive individuals (collectors tend to be obsessive) limit the scope of their lives to that which is easily manageable and controllable with almost no errors. It is hard for them to understand why the mint can't do that while making billions of coins...not to mention the problems of expecting hourly employees to work error free. It is the biggest challenge facing any large corporate management team. These comments are general and not meant specificly about any poster in this thread.
Something else I thought of after I went to bed - this is not an unprecedented occurence at the Philly Mint. In 1980 an entire tote of cent planchets was struck by nickel dies, and a good percentage of them ended up released to the public. If you watch sales and auctions for nickels on cent planchets, I'd estimate one third of the examples offered are dated 1980-P.
7over8: Can you please paste just the relevant text from the CW article that states how the US Mint thinks these off-metal dollars were struck? I'm not a CW subscriber and everything I've heard so far has disagreed with your quote: CW in thier article clearly says the USM stated that "Oklahoma Qtr dies were mistakenly switched with Monroe Dollar Dies" and hence the striking of Dollars on Qtr planchets.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The presses - possibly up to 5 or 6 of them, (I believe, but cannot confirm at this point) were striking Quarters -
At some point, either at the end of the production run, or after a time shift, the Press was fitted with the two Monroe Dollar Dies (obv. and rev.) At the Phila. Mint, the Presses used to run Dollars are quarters are in the same area, and can be interchanged with dies.
Unbeknownst, for whatever reason, there were still a very large quantity of Quarter Planchets in the feed bin that goes into the Press itself. At the Phila. Mint, there is a continuous operation from the Blanking Press to the Upset Mill to the Presses.
With the Monroe Dollar Dies properly set into the Press, it began to strike coins - and those"left over/remaining" Quarter Planchets were fed into the Press(es), struck as Dollars on Quarter Planchets, and then continued to the Edge Lettering Operation (now integrated into the Press line - different from putting them into Bins like the earlier Presidential Dollars. Although we haven't seen a single coin yet, I've been told that many/most of them had -SOME- Edge Lettering, from where the coins "touched" the Shoe (that's what they call the curved metal piece with the raised edge lettering elements).
They won't have full Edge Lettering/Date, etc. because the diameter of the quarter planchets, even after being struck by the Dollar Dies, are still smaller and won't be able to be pressed against the Shoe/Edge Lettering.
Each coin will have a different amount/portion of the edge lettering elements, but they won't be (or shouldn't be) complete Edge Lettering on them.
These are NOT Mules - they are simple (but exotic !!) Off Metal/Wrong Planchet Errors.....
Mules are the result of two wrong DIES being set up in the Press.
Example: Obv. of the State Quarter, Rev. of the Sacagawea Dollar or Obv. of the Lincoln Cent, Rev. of the Roos. Dime
Hope this helps a bit....yes, there are still MANY unknowns about this situation; I'm hopefull that in a week, we'll start to know more.....and see some !!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
As per Mr. Weinbergs explanation, there may be no error-Monroe $1 in rolls because of their different and inconsistent sizes. These errors may be found in bags only it at all.
Also, will this error be in the same category as other off planchet coins or will this merit a special category say in the Red Book?
<< <i>Anyone know what the projected total mintage will be for the James Monroe??
I read that 103 milion projected.
How many James Madisons were minted?? >>
87,780,000 Denvers 84,560,00 Phillys 172,340,000 total which is about the same as the Washington Philly.
So these dollars are coming down fast in mintage. Take a look at the first few years of Ike, SBA, and Sac...and project your own numbers for 2008 and 2009. My guess is 2009 will most likely be relegated to mint sets and rolls only.
They are not a different catagory - they are Off Metal errors, just like a cent on a dime planchet, or a nickel on a cent planchet.
I believe there is a very good chance that if they are "out" there, they will be found in rolls also.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
The presses - possibly up to 5 or 6 of them, (I believe, but cannot confirm at this point) were striking Quarters -
At some point, either at the end of the production run, or after a time shift, the Press was fitted with the two Monroe Dollar Dies (obv. and rev.) At the Phila. Mint, the Presses used to run Dollars are quarters are in the same area, and can be interchanged with dies.
Unbeknownst, for whatever reason, there were still a very large quantity of Quarter Planchets in the feed bin that goes into the Press itself. At the Phila. Mint, there is a continuous operation from the Blanking Press to the Upset Mill to the Presses.
With the Monroe Dollar Dies properly set into the Press, it began to strike coins - and those"left over/remaining" Quarter Planchets were fed into the Press(es), struck as Dollars on Quarter Planchets, >>
This is exactly what I speculated last night:
<< <i>If a production line was switched over from striking quarters to striking dollars, it's very easy to believe that (...) the automatic feeding basin was not purged of quarter planchets >>
I would expect that not just one of the "5 or 6 presses" was changed over but all of them, since it sounds like they were being fed from a common source of planchets. If that's the case, then it would take just 15 or 20 minutes to strike tens of thousands of dollars on quarter planchets. Those would have been immediately chased by tens of thousands of the proper planchets, making it even harder to see the mistake with a visual inspection.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Another bunch of error coins from the mint to juice up interest in a bunch of boring coins.
If this were not a government agency, more collectors would be complaining about what a scam this whole mess is. ... Impossilbe "manufactured mules" of unmatched dies, missing or messed up edge lettering, extra leaves on quarters ... Frankly I’m tired of it. I’m glad that I mostly collect 18th and 19th century coins don’t have to waste my time and money on this junk.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
And for the record, the estimated number was between 70-140 THOUSAND coins. >>
The Mint bulletin that followed up the original story states that they are certain that none of the 2008-P Monroes will hit circulation. This is why I think this is more interesting. No one really knows how many are out there ready for discovery. It's definitely not in the 100 thousands....according to the Mint.
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But darn few of them were made intentionally to sell to collectors.
There is just too of much this stuff that appears too frequently make it an unending series of “accidents.’ Most collectors and the general public gave up on Franklin Mint style promotions after they got burned time after time. Soon more of you will learn that lesson.
Don’t feed and encourage the mint pig. It only gets fatter and more greedy by consuming more of your money. The more revenue the mint pig eats makes prone to produce more “accidents.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If a quarter planchet with a diamater just smaller than a dollar, is struck in dollar dies and collar, would the planchet not expand to fill the coining chamber thus making it the same diameter as a dollar?
Best,
John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Although the Quarter planchet will expand a bit because the collar for the Dollar coins IS larger, it will NOT expand to the full diameter of a Dollar coin.
We've seen numerous examples of SBA's and Sac Dollars struck on Quarter Planchets (and struck Quarters), and they are all smaller in diameter than Dollars.
And, as mentioned numerous times in this thread, the errors, if they are out there, will be found in DOLLAR rolls, bags, etc. - NOT Quarter Rolls.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
From previous finds of dollars struck on quarter planchets, and if some of these do get out, will they be fully struck. I would think that the strike would be weak, assuming that there is a different hammer die to anvil die set-up between dollars and quarters.
Best,
John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But darn few of them were made intentionally to sell to collectors.
There is just too of much this stuff that appears too frequently make it an unending series of “accidents.’ Most collectors and the general public gave up on Franklin Mint style promotions after they got burned time after time. Soon more of you will learn that lesson.
Don’t feed and encourage the mint pig. It only gets fatter and more greedy by consuming more of your money. The more revenue the mint pig eats makes prone to produce more “accidents.” >>
Seems to me that the Mint in the 19th century made a lot more clandestine stuff "intentionally to sell to collectors" than the modern Mint today. Maybe not error coins (which really weren't collected as a specialty until the 20th century), but plenty of restrikes of rare dates, patterns, and proofs, all struck at the request of collectors.
For that matter... how exactly did the Mint profit from the plain edge GW dollars, or even the Sacagawea / State Quarter mules? Why are they now working so hard to prevent them from being released? How can you call them "Franklin Mint style promotions" when they were found in circulation for face value? I could understand if the argument was that the errors were created to push the new coins into circulation, by creating a "treasure hunt" atmosphere around them, but the notion that picking up a brick of Monroe dollars from your local bank somehow constitutes "more revenue (for) the mint pig (to) eat" is rather absurd.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars", or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors, even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and to be expected.....to one degree or another
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
Although the Quarter planchet will expand a bit because the collar for the Dollar coins IS larger, it will NOT expand to the full diameter of a Dollar coin.
So being that the quarter IS smaller then we might even get an offcenter or partial punched coin in these. Do you think that this would bring a different variety to these off metal coins, or will they all just be considered an OFF METAL coin?
<< <i> Do you think that this would bring a different variety to these off metal coins, or will they all just be considered an OFF METAL coin? >>
These are considered off metal errors
Off metals errors are highly collectable
ErrorsOnCoins >>
What I really meant was if the coins that slide around in the die and get only a partial punch instead of a center punched one. Would these get a different variety other than just a typical off metal coin. Like a regular would be an offmetal, and the OFFCENTER get the recognition as an OFFCENTER/OFFMETAL coin all in one? And yes I am interested in these and I am hoping they come to me down in jax,fl. like the smoothie washingtons did.
Yes, there are cases of Off-Center strikes of Off-Metal Coins;
I just bought a N.D. Kennedy Half on a Nickel Planchet, about 15% Off-Center, for example.
However, I'm willing to bet that 99.5% of these are "on center" Off-Metals, with a small amount of edge lettering/date, on 20-30% of the edge.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
If anything, off-metal coins probably have a slightly higher chance of being struck off-center as well because the smaller planchet would not be handled properly by the feed mechanism, but personally I think that a double error of that sort is way kewl! TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>Just put in an order for two bricks at my bank. I order boxes of halves every week and today she asked me if I want halves for next week. I said no let's try the new dollar this time. We'll see what happens. >>
how can you order whole box of dollar,halve....etc
<< <i>If anything, off-metal coins probably have a slightly higher chance of being struck off-center as well because the smaller planchet would not be handled properly by the feed mechanism, but personally I think that a double error of that sort is way kewl! TD >>
Yea me too. IMO I also think that maybe with the quarter running through the edge lettering machine that maybe the edge lettering dies might get a little damage and make a few dollar coins with partial to no edge lettering as well. So this president might have a lot more errors than we might think.
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
Seems to me that the Mint in the 19th century made a lot more clandestine stuff "intentionally to sell to collectors" than the modern Mint today. Maybe not error coins (which really weren't collected as a specialty until the 20th century), but plenty of restrikes of rare dates, patterns, and proofs, all struck at the request of collectors.
For that matter... how exactly did the Mint profit from the plain edge GW dollars, or even the Sacagawea / State Quarter mules? Why are they now working so hard to prevent them from being released? How can you call them "Franklin Mint style promotions" when they were found in circulation for face value? I could understand if the argument was that the errors were created to push the new coins into circulation, by creating a "treasure hunt" atmosphere around them, but the notion that picking up a brick of Monroe dollars from your local bank somehow constitutes "more revenue (for) the mint pig (to) eat" is rather absurd.
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars", or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors, even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and to be expected.....to one degree or another >>
Fred, I'm looking forward to the year where they don't have ANY presidential errors! That'll be a banner year!
At any rate, I'm looking forward to the clammer that's gonna occur where these initially show up.
BTW, Fred, I'll be interested in perhaps purchasing some of these when they come your way provided it doesn't cost a credit app and a bank loan to do so!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Picked up 2 bricks, Monroe P mint, this afternoon, got them earlier than expected. First 10 rolls searched, no errors. Edge lettering is weaker than normal, but not weak enough. (i didn't break the seal on the brick, I opened it from the ends )
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars", or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors, even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and to be expected.....to one degree or another >>
Fred, I'm looking forward to the year where they don't have ANY presidential errors! That'll be a banner year!
At any rate, I'm looking forward to the clammer that's gonna occur where these initially show up.
BTW, Fred, I'll be interested in perhaps purchasing some of these when they come your way provided it doesn't cost a credit app and a bank loan to do so! >>
Fred, Don't waste your time saving one for me, I plan on finding one myself
The question of the day. After you guys search the bricks rolls w/e What do you do with them. Are there any wrappers that fit/support the pres dollars to be had or do you take them back to the bank all opened and say cheers. If you do this I would take back to another bank.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what?
<< <i>The question of the day. After you guys search the bricks rolls w/e What do you do with them. Are there any wrappers that fit/support the pres dollars to be had or do you take them back to the bank all opened and say cheers. If you do this I would take back to another bank.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what? >>
I use them for tip money and, here in Chicago, bus fares. TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>The question of the day. After you guys search the bricks rolls w/e What do you do with them. Are there any wrappers that fit/support the pres dollars to be had or do you take them back to the bank all opened and say cheers. If you do this I would take back to another bank.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what? >>
Last year I went through 50 bricks and rolled them; yes there are wrappers for the dollars. I took them back to my bank.
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
Comments
Yes, many forum members don't have a clue about manufacturing. It is easy to forget that laymen have never been in a factory or become familiar with industrial processes. And I don't mean to attack them but I've given up on trying to address every conspiricy theory based on how there is no excuse for errors at the mint. Many obsessive individuals (collectors tend to be obsessive) limit the scope of their lives to that which is easily manageable and controllable with almost no errors. It is hard for them to understand why the mint can't do that while making billions of coins...not to mention the problems of expecting hourly employees to work error free. It is the biggest challenge facing any large corporate management team. These comments are general and not meant specificly about any poster in this thread.
Seanq, I fully agree with your thoughts. --Jerry
7over8: Can you please paste just the relevant text from the CW article that states how the US Mint thinks these off-metal dollars were struck? I'm not a CW subscriber and everything I've heard so far has disagreed with your quote: CW in thier article clearly says the USM stated that "Oklahoma Qtr dies were mistakenly switched with Monroe Dollar Dies" and hence the striking of Dollars on Qtr planchets.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
How many James Madisons were minted??
The presses - possibly up to 5 or 6 of them,
(I believe, but cannot confirm at this point) were striking Quarters -
At some point, either at the end of the production run, or after a
time shift, the Press was fitted with the two Monroe Dollar Dies
(obv. and rev.) At the Phila. Mint, the Presses used to run Dollars
are quarters are in the same area, and can be interchanged with
dies.
Unbeknownst, for whatever reason, there were still a very large
quantity of Quarter Planchets in the feed bin that goes into the Press
itself. At the Phila. Mint, there is a continuous operation from the
Blanking Press to the Upset Mill to the Presses.
With the Monroe Dollar Dies properly set into the Press, it began to
strike coins - and those"left over/remaining" Quarter Planchets were
fed into the Press(es), struck as Dollars on Quarter Planchets, and then
continued to the Edge Lettering Operation (now integrated into the
Press line - different from putting them into Bins like the earlier Presidential
Dollars. Although we haven't seen a single coin yet, I've been told that
many/most of them had -SOME- Edge Lettering, from where the coins
"touched" the Shoe (that's what they call the curved metal piece with
the raised edge lettering elements).
They won't have full Edge Lettering/Date, etc. because the diameter of the
quarter planchets, even after being struck by the Dollar Dies, are still
smaller and won't be able to be pressed against the Shoe/Edge Lettering.
Each coin will have a different amount/portion of the edge lettering elements,
but they won't be (or shouldn't be) complete Edge Lettering on them.
These are NOT Mules - they are simple (but exotic !!) Off Metal/Wrong Planchet
Errors.....
Mules are the result of two wrong DIES being set up in the Press.
Example: Obv. of the State Quarter, Rev. of the Sacagawea Dollar
or Obv. of the Lincoln Cent, Rev. of the Roos. Dime
Hope this helps a bit....yes, there are still MANY unknowns about this situation;
I'm hopefull that in a week, we'll start to know more.....and see some !!
Also, will this error be in the same category as other off planchet coins or will this merit a special category say in the Red Book?
Ren
<< <i>Anyone know what the projected total mintage will be for the James Monroe??
I read that 103 milion projected.
How many James Madisons were minted?? >>
87,780,000 Denvers
84,560,00 Phillys
172,340,000 total which is about the same as the Washington Philly.
So these dollars are coming down fast in mintage. Take a look at the first few years of Ike, SBA, and Sac...and project your own numbers for 2008 and 2009. My guess is 2009 will most likely be relegated to mint sets and rolls only.
Ren
They are not a different catagory - they are Off Metal errors,
just like a cent on a dime planchet, or a nickel on a cent planchet.
I believe there is a very good chance that if they are "out" there,
they will be found in rolls also.
<< <i>A little clarification -
The presses - possibly up to 5 or 6 of them,
(I believe, but cannot confirm at this point) were striking Quarters -
At some point, either at the end of the production run, or after a
time shift, the Press was fitted with the two Monroe Dollar Dies
(obv. and rev.) At the Phila. Mint, the Presses used to run Dollars
are quarters are in the same area, and can be interchanged with
dies.
Unbeknownst, for whatever reason, there were still a very large
quantity of Quarter Planchets in the feed bin that goes into the Press
itself. At the Phila. Mint, there is a continuous operation from the
Blanking Press to the Upset Mill to the Presses.
With the Monroe Dollar Dies properly set into the Press, it began to
strike coins - and those"left over/remaining" Quarter Planchets were
fed into the Press(es), struck as Dollars on Quarter Planchets, >>
This is exactly what I speculated last night:
<< <i>If a production line was switched over from striking quarters to striking dollars, it's very easy to believe that (...) the automatic feeding basin was not purged of quarter planchets >>
I would expect that not just one of the "5 or 6 presses" was changed over but all of them, since it sounds like they were being fed from a common source of planchets. If that's the case, then it would take just 15 or 20 minutes to strike tens of thousands of dollars on quarter planchets. Those would have been immediately chased by tens of thousands of the proper planchets, making it even harder to see the mistake with a visual inspection.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
TD
Another bunch of error coins from the mint to juice up interest in a bunch of boring coins.
If this were not a government agency, more collectors would be complaining about what a scam this whole mess is. ... Impossilbe "manufactured mules" of unmatched dies, missing or messed up edge lettering, extra leaves on quarters ... Frankly I’m tired of it. I’m glad that I mostly collect 18th and 19th century coins don’t have to waste my time and money on this junk.
Ren
<< <i>IMHO, I consider the error to be plausible.
TD >>
Agreed but the real question is: Where will these turn up? Dollar Rolls/bags or Quarter Rolls/bags?
The name is LEE!
Quarter planchets fed through a Dollar production run? Dollar Dies installed at a quarter production run and bagged as quarters?
Who knows.
I do know that when these are found in quarter rolls, we will know what happened.
Finding them in Dollar rolls? Probably very unlikely.
And for the record, the estimated number was between 70-140 THOUSAND coins.
And for the record, the estimated number was between 70-140 THOUSAND coins. >>
The Mint bulletin that followed up the original story states that they are certain that none of the 2008-P Monroes will hit circulation. This is why I think this is more interesting. No one really knows how many are out there ready for discovery. It's definitely not in the 100 thousands....according to the Mint.
Ren
Box of 20
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But darn few of them were made intentionally to sell to collectors.
There is just too of much this stuff that appears too frequently make it an unending series of “accidents.’ Most collectors and the general public gave up on Franklin Mint style promotions after they got burned time after time. Soon more of you will learn that lesson.
Don’t feed and encourage the mint pig. It only gets fatter and more greedy by consuming more of your money. The more revenue the mint pig eats makes prone to produce more “accidents.”
Best,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Although the Quarter planchet will expand a bit because the collar
for the Dollar coins IS larger, it will NOT expand to the full diameter
of a Dollar coin.
We've seen numerous examples of SBA's and Sac Dollars struck on
Quarter Planchets (and struck Quarters), and they are all smaller
in diameter than Dollars.
And, as mentioned numerous times in this thread, the errors, if they
are out there, will be found in DOLLAR rolls, bags, etc. - NOT Quarter Rolls.
Best,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But darn few of them were made intentionally to sell to collectors.
There is just too of much this stuff that appears too frequently make it an unending series of “accidents.’ Most collectors and the general public gave up on Franklin Mint style promotions after they got burned time after time. Soon more of you will learn that lesson.
Don’t feed and encourage the mint pig. It only gets fatter and more greedy by consuming more of your money. The more revenue the mint pig eats makes prone to produce more “accidents.” >>
Seems to me that the Mint in the 19th century made a lot more clandestine stuff "intentionally to sell to collectors" than the modern Mint today. Maybe not error coins (which really weren't collected as a specialty until the 20th century), but plenty of restrikes of rare dates, patterns, and proofs, all struck at the request of collectors.
For that matter... how exactly did the Mint profit from the plain edge GW dollars, or even the Sacagawea / State Quarter mules? Why are they now working so hard to prevent them from being released? How can you call them "Franklin Mint style promotions" when they were found in circulation for face value? I could understand if the argument was that the errors were created to push the new coins into circulation, by creating a "treasure hunt" atmosphere around them, but the notion that picking up a brick of Monroe dollars from your local bank somehow constitutes "more revenue (for) the mint pig (to) eat" is rather absurd.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars",
or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general
manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors,
even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and
to be expected.....to one degree or another
<< <i>John,
Although the Quarter planchet will expand a bit because the collar
for the Dollar coins IS larger, it will NOT expand to the full diameter
of a Dollar coin.
So being that the quarter IS smaller then we might even get an offcenter or partial punched coin in these. Do you think that this would bring a different variety to these off metal coins, or will they all just be considered an OFF METAL coin?
I was a Monkey
<< <i> Do you think that this would bring a different variety to these off metal coins, or will they all just be considered an OFF METAL coin? >>
These are considered off metal errors
Off metals errors are highly collectable
ErrorsOnCoins
<< <i>
<< <i> Do you think that this would bring a different variety to these off metal coins, or will they all just be considered an OFF METAL coin? >>
These are considered off metal errors
Off metals errors are highly collectable
ErrorsOnCoins >>
What I really meant was if the coins that slide around in the die and get only a partial punch instead of a center punched one. Would these get a different variety other than just a typical off metal coin. Like a regular would be an offmetal, and the OFFCENTER get the recognition as an OFFCENTER/OFFMETAL coin all in one? And yes I am interested in these and I am hoping they come to me down in jax,fl. like the smoothie washingtons did.
I was a Monkey
I just bought a N.D. Kennedy Half on a Nickel Planchet, about 15% Off-Center, for example.
However, I'm willing to bet that 99.5% of these are "on center" Off-Metals,
with a small amount of edge lettering/date, on 20-30% of the edge.
TD
<< <i>Just put in an order for two bricks at my bank. I order boxes of halves every week and today she asked me if I want halves for next week. I said no let's try the new dollar this time. We'll see what happens. >>
how can you order whole box of dollar,halve....etc
<< <i>If anything, off-metal coins probably have a slightly higher chance of being struck off-center as well because the smaller planchet would not be handled properly by the feed mechanism, but personally I think that a double error of that sort is way kewl!
TD >>
Yea me too. IMO I also think that maybe with the quarter running through the edge lettering machine that maybe the edge lettering dies might get a little damage and make a few dollar coins with partial to no edge lettering as well. So this president might have a lot more errors than we might think.
I was a Monkey
I've received 3 out of the 4 pres releases last year when the bank
mixed up my order and sent a brick of all new 2001P's Sac instead of Adams
oh well
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Weren't there a few error coins in the 18th and 19th century?
Ren >>
Seems to me that the Mint in the 19th century made a lot more clandestine stuff "intentionally to sell to collectors" than the modern Mint today. Maybe not error coins (which really weren't collected as a specialty until the 20th century), but plenty of restrikes of rare dates, patterns, and proofs, all struck at the request of collectors.
For that matter... how exactly did the Mint profit from the plain edge GW dollars, or even the Sacagawea / State Quarter mules? Why are they now working so hard to prevent them from being released? How can you call them "Franklin Mint style promotions" when they were found in circulation for face value? I could understand if the argument was that the errors were created to push the new coins into circulation, by creating a "treasure hunt" atmosphere around them, but the notion that picking up a brick of Monroe dollars from your local bank somehow constitutes "more revenue (for) the mint pig (to) eat" is rather absurd.
Sean Reynolds >>
That's what I was thinking. You said it well.
Ren
<< <i>got my order in for a $1000 box at my bank
I've received 3 out of the 4 pres releases last year when the bank
mixed up my order and sent a brick of all new 2001P's Sac instead of Adams
oh well >>
how can you order full box of coin at the bank? and which bank is that?
<< <i>
<< <i>got my order in for a $1000 box at my bank
I've received 3 out of the 4 pres releases last year when the bank
mixed up my order and sent a brick of all new 2001P's Sac instead of Adams
oh well >>
how can you order full box of coin at the bank? and which bank is that? >>
Not all banks will order them for you, call your bank and ask what thier policy is.
<< <i>Sean, I agree with you.......
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars",
or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general
manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors,
even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and
to be expected.....to one degree or another >>
Fred, I'm looking forward to the year where they don't have ANY presidential errors! That'll be a banner year!
At any rate, I'm looking forward to the clammer that's gonna occur where these initially show up.
BTW, Fred, I'll be interested in perhaps purchasing some of these when they come your way provided it doesn't cost a credit app and a bank loan to do so!
The name is LEE!
Ren
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sean, I agree with you.......
The Mint doesn't do this "for publicity", "to promote Presidential Dollars",
or any reason like that.
Those that think so just don't understand the Minting Process, the general
manufacturing process, or the degree that is taken to NOT make or release errors,
even when you're striking 10 to 15 BILLION coins per year....
Accidents happen.......errors happen........it's perfectly understandable, and
to be expected.....to one degree or another >>
Fred, I'm looking forward to the year where they don't have ANY presidential errors! That'll be a banner year!
At any rate, I'm looking forward to the clammer that's gonna occur where these initially show up.
BTW, Fred, I'll be interested in perhaps purchasing some of these when they come your way provided it doesn't cost a credit app and a bank loan to do so! >>
Fred, Don't waste your time saving one for me, I plan on finding one myself
Me as well, Fred. I live on the West Coast so I'll have to buy one too. All you P-Mint residents are lucky ducks.
<< <i>Me as well, Fred. I live on the West Coast so I'll have to buy one too. All you P-Mint residents are lucky ducks. >>
I remember thinking the same about D-mint residents when The high-low leafs came out and I still actually cared about the Statehood series
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Some Monroes are already out there.
Not a pre-sale either.
Some lettering errors...extra O and P.
This is sooner than I've expected.
Maybe there will be a pre-Valentines special.
Ren
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what?
<< <i>The question of the day. After you guys search the bricks rolls w/e What do you do with them. Are there any wrappers that fit/support the pres dollars to be had or do you take them back to the bank all opened and say cheers. If you do this I would take back to another bank.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what? >>
I use them for tip money and, here in Chicago, bus fares.
TD
Turned in 5,000 one day.
<< <i>The question of the day. After you guys search the bricks rolls w/e What do you do with them. Are there any wrappers that fit/support the pres dollars to be had or do you take them back to the bank all opened and say cheers. If you do this I would take back to another bank.
What does the majority do? Hold to see errors and different errors or what? >>
Last year I went through 50 bricks and rolled them; yes there are wrappers for the dollars. I took them back to my bank.
Last year I went through 50 bricks and rolled them; yes there are wrappers for the dollars. I took them back to my bank. >>
Did you find anything?
<< <i>try the quarter rolls guys............................. >>
Wouldn't these coins be to big for quarter rolls.
Ren
do you know something we dont ?