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PCGS Reinforces Rules for Suspected “Doctored” Coins
Stooge
Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here is the front page artical from PCGS!
This is EXACTLY why I will not pay over $300 for a raw coin anymore, as I have been hit by the "Cleaned, whizzed, tooled and counterfiet" Doctor.
Many thanks and applause go out to PCGS for this effort to stop these jerks!
AND if are guilty, then yes I called you a jerk!
Later, Paul.
This is EXACTLY why I will not pay over $300 for a raw coin anymore, as I have been hit by the "Cleaned, whizzed, tooled and counterfiet" Doctor.
Many thanks and applause go out to PCGS for this effort to stop these jerks!
AND if are guilty, then yes I called you a jerk!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
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Comments
BTW I like what NGC and PCGS came out with today. It does not help me any but I believe it helps the hobby.
Ken
WS
The hobby as a whole (each and every one of us) needs to stand up and say "ENOUGH".
<< <i>I think this is way too late in coming. And not just from TPG services. Examples need to be made. Bunches of them.
The hobby as a whole (each and every one of us) needs to stand up and say "ENOUGH". >>
There are dealers who have been praised to the hills on this forum and other such forums who openly brag to collectors and fellow dealers at their tables how they "lightened"or otherwise "improved" coins and thereby after 1-10 submissions got the grade they were seeking, thus improving the value of the coin by a factor of 10 or more.
This is why so many raw coins, particularly but not limited to, copper and bronze coins, keep getting returned from the TPGs in bodybags with the "suspicious color" notation. Many of these are roll fresh, but the graders are running scared. If in doubt, toss it out!
The practice of doctoring unjustly rewards the coin doctors/dealers and the dealers who employ them. Not only that, but the coins are ruined for posterity! I've yet to see a re-colored or otherwise "improved" Lincoln or Indian Head cent that has not turned color IN THE HOLDER within a year of the treatment. I passed on two 1955/55s that were in red MS-64 PCGS holders. One wound up in a dealer's inventory an by now it appears to have taken on the look of of the biblical Jacob's coat of many colors. The surfaces of the coin remains chemically active after its been treated and neither Intercept shield nor any other product will stop the chemical reaction to continue. If the cert. number on a small cent indicates it's been slabbed under a year ago, I often pass it by, PARTICULARLY if it's a high value low pop coin of an early date (pre 1930). I'm not going to risk my customer's financial investment if I have any doubts.
Ira
It's a great step for PCGS. But, I am not encouraged that the problem will get any better. There are so many people that engage in these practices that it will be hard to enforce. From what I read in the PCGS article, any alteration of the surface is coin doctoring. So, what about all the people out there that dip coins? What about NCS? Seems to me that they should all be thrown in jail. However, that will never happen.
I applaud the message from PCGS, however it will effect no real change.
JMHO
Jack
But, it brings up an important point - perhaps the grading services, etc. should clearly state what coin doctoring methods will be turned over to the authorities - and, obviously, nothing NCS does will be deemed a doctoring method I would believe.
Wondercoin
As I mentioned on another thread, IMHO, professional "dipping" would not be at issue and, in fact, if I am not mistaken (and please correct me if I am wrong) was approved as a proper conservation method in the ANA's grading guide book I read a few years back?
So, let me get this straight. It's O'K if a "professional" dips the coin, but not some guy in the bathroom at the FUN convention? I suppose the "professional" has completed some course of training in coin dipping and thereby is endowed with special coin dipping skills. Maybe he/she has a coin dipping diploma. I doubt it.
Regardless of who does the dipping, by and large the motive is the same. Some may be altruistic and just like the appearance of a dipped coin, but most are doing it in attempt to increase value and make money. In a subtle way, I think that is deceptive and fraudulent.
Jack
<< <i>It's a great step for PCGS. But, I am not encouraged that the problem will get any better. There are so many people that engage in these practices that it will be hard to enforce. From what I read in the PCGS article, any alteration of the surface is coin doctoring. So, what about all the people out there that dip coins? What about NCS? Seems to me that they should all be thrown in jail. However, that will never happen.
I applaud the message from PCGS, however it will effect no real change.
JMHO
Jack >>
Oh ye of little faith, Jack. If PCGS puts some muscle behind their tough warning and actually prosecutes some of the perpetrators, then even the costs of defending oneself in court might tend to discourage some of the coin doctors.
Bear in mind, folks, that some of the better coin doctors earn seven figure incomes as they often share in the gain in value of the treated coin aand might well be reluctant to see a major hit to their income. After all, they could submit their treated coins through a confederate so it might be hard to track from whence the coin came, but lets face it. The principals of PCGS and NGC for that matter don't have their heads in the sand. They know by name some of the most skillful of the coin doctors. Heck, some of the largest companies have these guys on their payroll, but the identities don't appear in their ads or brochures. PCGS won't publish the names here or anywhere for a real risk of a libel lawsuit.
Still, PCGS's announcement can't help but do some good. As far as dipping a silver or gold coin, however, that's virtually a universal practice, and unless overdone, I doubt that that particular practice will be deemed "doctoring."
Ira
I see some similarities in the TPG's new attempt to reinforce AT rules. B-ball, at least pro, was ruined for me when they lost sight of the rules of the game. I hope that the TPG's actions are taken more seriously and are better (re)inforced.
Professional (i.e. proper) dipping is fine IMHO and, again, until I am proven to be mistaken - I believe an approved practice of the ANA?
Wondercoin
Gardnerville, NV
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