Positive points regarding half grades

MorrellMan

bluemarlin

augustaman

I assume you mean on the collectors side, right?
Because there's plenty of positive points on PSA's side.

(Mark me down as another vote against the new system)

BugOnTheRug

PSA knows there will be some backlash to this move. How much, however, remains to be seen.

clayshooter22

+1 for MorrellMan

ctsoxfan

I think you listed all the positives accurately.

This is a horrible idea by PSA - it's not too late to reconsider it, is it?

djspann

<< <i>I assume you mean on the collectors side, right?
Because there's plenty of positive points on PSA's side.

(Mark me down as another vote against the new system) >>



This is only a positive for PSA if they generate more revenue through resubmits and future business than they lose if people take their business elsewhere.

For now, as a collector, I agree completely with MorrellMan. Time will tell if this improves PSA's bottom line.


Doug

gotsparks09

<< <i>+1 for MorrellMan >>



Make that +1.5 for MorrellMan... and -8.5 for the "foundation of all great collections."

viking7

This collector agrees with MorrellMan. That list sums it up.

perkdog

+9.5 for the half grade!

gemint

Does that mean my PSA 6's will now bump from 6 to 8.5 instead of 6 to 8 like in the past when I crack and resubmit? Can't wait for the more "accurate" grading scale.

hobart4281

Buy the card/not the holder....

Just an average guy who enjoys collecting cards



edited to correct typo

HammeringHank

Very funny, MorrellMan! All of your points are very saliant. Leaves me speechless...

jradke4

<< <i>Does that mean my PSA 6's will now bump from 6 to 8.5 instead of 6 to 8 like in the past when I crack and resubmit? Can't wait for the more "accurate" grading scale. >>



yes more accurate grades. my bump from a 5 to 10 shows how poor they are at accurating grading cards. i assumed that it was from a surface wrinkle the first time. but i never did anything to remove the wrinkle. so the second time they must have missed it. but then how bad was it the first time then. if they were so accurate to be able to pick out a .5 difference between a 8 to 9. then there should be large bumps at all.

fandango

<< <i>Does that mean my PSA 6's will now bump from 6 to 8.5 instead of 6 to 8 like in the past when I crack and resubmit? Can't wait for the more "accurate" grading scale. >>



gemint...howman times are you gonna bring up that you got big bumps...

LETS SEE SOME SCANS..i for 1 dont believe 1 of your posts....

you hit every thread possible with the same crap....

Joe Orlando may be onto something here.....he says not all messageboard people are real....i think i may believe him..there seems to be only a hand full of posters who bring up the same crap....CAN YOU SAY TROLLS....

i think 1 or 2 trolls may control about 10 alts, all complaint departments....

these posters probably dont have 1 card in PSA they are just here to stir the pot.....

gaspipe26

I can believe gemint. I just received 4 cards that were originally graded PSA 6. I thought they were nuts. I cracked them out and resubmitted. The new grades, 3-PSA 8's and 1-PSA 9. I have the flips to prove it. 3 -2 grade jumps and 1-3 grade jump. Believe it , it happens.

julen23

no doubt about it.

if you happen to buy a psa 6 & submit and get a 9, power to ya!

nobody will ever look at a slabs teh same again.

the seeds of doubt have been planted by psa & the desire to upgrade simply cannot be denied.

kind of like condors gathering around roadkill in the desert & fighting to eat the last shred of meat.

j

WinPitcher

A true 6 is a sweet looking card and because grading is subjective I can see them going up to an 8.

Back in the day an EX/MNT card was a card that at first glance looked like a GEM card. It was in fact a gem card that had some slight wear on corners. Not all 6's are OC dogs that were net graded down because of flaws. Some are in fact nicer then many 7's.


Steve

gaspipe26

I dont know if I agree 100% with that Steve, but I'll tell you this for the most part, the grades are relatively accurate. I do however find huge inconsistency with the grading criteria from grader to grader. I thought all 4 cards were 8's the first time I submitted them thats why I cracked them out and resubmitted them when they came back 6,6,6,aqnd 6. Its not the first time, wont be the last.

gemint

<< <i>

<< <i>Does that mean my PSA 6's will now bump from 6 to 8.5 instead of 6 to 8 like in the past when I crack and resubmit? Can't wait for the more "accurate" grading scale. >>



gemint...howman times are you gonna bring up that you got big bumps...

LETS SEE SOME SCANS..i for 1 dont believe 1 of your posts....

you hit every thread possible with the same crap....

Joe Orlando may be onto something here.....he says not all messageboard people are real....i think i may believe him..there seems to be only a hand full of posters who bring up the same crap....CAN YOU SAY TROLLS....

i think 1 or 2 trolls may control about 10 alts, all complaint departments....

these posters probably dont have 1 card in PSA they are just here to stir the pot..... >>



It's apparent you don't read many of the posts on here. I already put all my registry sets in the "put your money where your mouth is thread". Actually I find the opposite to be true. The most vocal posters ridiculing those of us who don't like the change own few, if any, graded cards.

I will post some scans later today of some cards I had bumped.

gemint

<< <i>I can believe gemint. I just received 4 cards that were originally graded PSA 6. I thought they were nuts. I cracked them out and resubmitted. The new grades, 3-PSA 8's and 1-PSA 9. I have the flips to prove it. 3 -2 grade jumps and 1-3 grade jump. Believe it , it happens. >>



Forget it Bob. We're just trolls even though we've each graded several thousand cards with PSA. What do we know?

obusek99

I find it kind of funny how quite a few people on the boards were angry, talking about quitting, anarchy, swearing off PSA forever, now two days later everyone is scanning through their slabs for cards they can resubmit for a .5 bump. It's all about the junky. I'm one too but PSA is smart for taking advantage of weakness in my opinion. It's like VHS and DVD, eventually everyone went through the process of switching them over one way or another. The junkie needs his cards, needs his grades, needs his set rating and will pay and do whatever the pusher says. Thankfully, I'm not TOTALLY hooked on the crank just yet. Making guys pay the real/accurate declared value is amazing.
Suck all the money out the people who make PSA who they are. But everyone could simply not have any cards reviewed. But they will.
It's the new game.

bigredone

I really belive that PSA intentionally undergrades a set percentage of chard just for they fact they know you will resubmitt them and therefore they get double money for the same card, maybe triple money.

I think it is Espeacially true on the $5.00 specials they run.

WinPitcher

All I know is this, if anyone sends the same card back after it did not get the bump do not think that PSA does not know it has already been reviewed. That barcode on every slab is there for a reason fellas.


Steve

gaspipe26

Thats one reason why I think a review is not relevant. I've sent cards back for review and rarely get a bump. Crack the same ones out and resubmit and get huge percentage upgrade results.

gemint

Ok, here are a few scans for the non believers who think a multiple grade bump is not possible. These are only a few of what I've bumped:

This is an '89 UD Griffey. I originally had it graded around 2000 or 2001 when the card in a 10 was worth money. I picked the best one from a dealer stock of about 25 cards. It came back an 8. Last year I cracked and resubmitted the card now that 10s are going for $200 or so. It came back a 10.



This Billy Goodman is a tough common. It sells for about $75-$100 in an 8. The first time I submitted it, I got a 6. I probably still have the flip somewhere but didn't want to spend the time digging it up. If you don't believe me, that's fine. So when I got the card back, I cracked the holder and scoured the card looking for a wrinkle or print flaw I may have missed...anything to warrant a 6. Nothing was found. So I resubmitted it and, low and behold, it came back an 8.



This card was originally graded an 8(ST). I cracked and resubmitted and it came back a 9. No stain on the card.



This card only bumped one grade but it's significant because it's a big money card and I had personally talked to Steve Rocci about the grade since I submitted it at a National for same day grading and it came back an 8. I was sure it was a 9. Steve took it back to the grading room and they offered me a 9(PD) since it had two white specs on the Schmidt photo. I've seen other Schmidt 9's over the years and the best ones have had some minor print flaw in the photos. I cracked and resubmitted a few years back and it came back a 9(NQ).



This is a sampling of the variability of grading on the 1 point scale.

wolfbear

Thank you for providing us one example out of 10 million.

What's your point ... ?

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Thank you for providing us one example out of 10 million.

What's your point ... ? >>



C'mon wolfbear....don't you see?

This is a big international conspiracy perhaps to distract us from the steroid use in major sports..

I mean, just think. I can look over the 5000 auctions from 4squarecorners and find a couple that don't look like what I think a 10 should be.

Clear Skies,
Mark

gemint

<< <i>Thank you for providing us one example out of 10 million.

What's your point ... ? >>



Sorry, I'm not going to go through my entire collection, scan and post all the cards that bumped. My point is I don't see how PSA is going to accurately grade to a half point scale when we already see such variability in a full point scale. And the examples I posted aren't $5 commons. The bump on the Schmidt, for example, is the difference between a $200 card and an $1100 card.

fandango

sorry but those scans prove nothing...you need before and after scans so you can prove ITS THE SAME CARD....serial numbered cards on the fron woulh help...

you would make a lousy lawyer cause they would throw that "evidence" out of court in a second...

gemint

<< <i>sorry but those scans prove nothing...you need before and after scans so you can prove ITS THE SAME CARD....serial numbered cards on the fron woulh help...

you would make a lousy lawyer cause they would throw that "evidence" out of court in a second... >>



I really could care less if you believe me or not. First you claim I probably don't even own any graded cards. If I were to provide before and after scans, you'd just claim they weren't my cards or weren't the same card. Go ahead and continue living in lala land.

jradke4

i cracked a 95 sp championship diecut favre all pro that was a 5. it just came back a 10!!!

tell me if this can happen how they can say that they can accurately judge on a 0.5 scale. i can see if they differ a grade say an 8 to a 9, that they might be able to make that statement. but nothing should ever go from a 5 to a 10. or a 6/7 to a 10.

MorrellMan

<< <i>sorry but those scans prove nothing...you need before and after scans so you can prove ITS THE SAME CARD....serial numbered cards on the fron woulh help...

you would make a lousy lawyer cause they would throw that "evidence" out of court in a second... >>



With all due respct, I don't know who you are, but I do know who John (gemint) is, and he is definitely not a troll. You, on the other hand, are coming off awfully strong and nasty to someone who is a very decent, sensible and well-respected collector. If John says it is so, I have no reason to doubt him. He has nothing to "prove" to you. You're aren't making any friends with your gattling gun approach.

fandango

nothing against him, but if you are gonna show scans of misgraded cards, you have to show the before and after, not the after!

MorrellMan

It's the SAME CARD. Very few of us would see the point to scanning a card BEFORE cracking it out so we can PROVE it's the same card. What would that prove? Different holder, different flip, different cert number - are you gong to know for certain that it's the same card because the centering looks the same?

WinPitcher

Fan I know John ( Gemint) too, if he tells me they are the same card I would believe him. Now like you say, those that don't know him may think differently and that is fine too. I just do not think he would BS anyone.


Steve

gemint

Thanks guys. It's definitely a high emotion issue with many people, both for and against the change. I'm sure it will be this way for awhile until things settle out. Where it settles is hard to predict.

Griffins

I"ve known John (Gemint) for years also. He has no hidden agenda, and I've walked shows with him where he was looking very, very closely at many cards before buying one. He's super picky, and I have no doubt every word in his post is the absolute truth. If you don't believe him keep your head in the sand and move on to the next thread.

HECK55

The new 1/2 point grading says "No Qualifiers" - just high end of that grade will make the bump. I send in a lot of 53 Topps - known well for centering issues just as other 50's cards. I usually ask for no qualifiers which means to me that instead of getting an 8OC I end up with a straight 6. This is Ok. But if I send in this same 6 looking for the possibility of the 1/2 point increase - does the centering now kill the bump or is this card that would have been an 8OC, (high end for a straight 6) garner the bump? I am guessing that we get back to one grader gives it and the other turns it down. Would you send back in the 6 holder or break it out - best I can tell the card has got to be previously graded and in the holder to be evaluated for the 1/2 point bump but if it was a fresh grade I assume it stands a chance for the same consideration? Surely 1/2 points are not only for regrades.
Thanks - - - Rick

BugOnTheRug

The first card I ever cracked and resubmitted for my registry set was a psa 8 that ended up a psa 10. Gemint knows what he's talking about whether you believe him or not. Give me consistency any day of the week over half-points. In 4 years from now - what's next - quarter-points?

gaspipe26

I went thru all my crackouts from the past year. Their was 113 of them which is about 5% of my total submissions for the year. Of the 113 I had 48 upgrades, 63 stayed the same, and 2 downgraded 1 point. Of the 48 upgrades, 1 was a 3 grade jump, 6 were a 2 grade jump and 41 were 1 grade jumps. Thats a 42.5% upgrade average. But only a 2+% upgrade average on the entire submissions for the year, and less than 1% were mulpitle grade jumps. So after really looking at the situation you have to be realistic, there is going to be some variations in grades on crackouts. Im sure I could of cracked out cards that I agreed with the grade and received some upgrades, not on the same pct as the ones I truly disagreed with but overall, with the exception of the multiple grade jumps which is less than 1 pct I really cant complain too much. Although I have sent cards back for review and received an extremely low upgrade pct and then cracked them out and got the upgrade. Crackout is the way to go if you think you've been undergraded.

mikeschmidt

John is a high-quality collector who cares about the card's quality first, and the actual number on the holder second. Fandango -- you do yourself a terrible disservice by attacking the credibility of other collectors' here. Many of us who are long-time collectors (e.g. collecting years, if not decades before Albert Pujols put on a uniform) with significant value tied up in our collections. This is a huge change by PSA, after having graded millions upon millions of cards. And for you, or others, to move away from the spirit of the debate to personal attacks is uncalled for. You have lost a lot of credibility in my book.

Marc
(one of the original participants on these forums)

Mickey71

I sent in a 58 baseball common about 8 months. It was an easy NM-MT-nice centering, strong corners and clean back and well focused. Not an expensive card, but a nice shape card. When the sub popped it said a 1. I immediately called them and asked what the heck is going on. The CS rep told me that it was not an error and that it was a 1. I wanted more clarification and told her to hold off on the shipping. I actually had a problem with a couple of the grades. I demanded that they be reviewed. The next day I talked with the rep and she said that this card went to the graders about 4 different times and finally the head grader assigned it a 8. They kept saying that there was a pin hole in the card. The head grader said there was not. When I got the card back I immediately looked at the card with a loop and there was only a tiny surface blemish and by no means anything resembling a hole. An easy card to grade. I went from a 1 to an 8. What Gemmint did was show us examples and that the system is troubling as whole grades are far from accurate. Thge card that went from a 1 to a 8 was actually submitted for my friend. When I told him to guess the grade he said 9 then 6. When I told him a 1 and told him the story he actually cracked up laughing. One thing I will say was that the CS rep Rosenberg(I believe that was her) was very decent about the whole thing and actually troubled at the 1 to 8. On a side note the other card reviewed also was bumped up-no slider either.
Mickey71

kdaddy

so this cracking.....I know it makes a huge difference in a cards worth taking a (8) to a (10) but how many of you have resubmitted and it came back the same or worse? The reason I ask is because a couple of months ago I got back 200 cards that I went over and over and over....I would say 90% are 9's, but look better or the same as the 10's I have to compare to.....strangely there were even 3 -(5's) and a 4 in my cards, and 1 (8 ST) that for the life of me I cannot find a stain on......I was so angry that I sent off numerous emails back to PSA asking to speak with the grader and to find out WHY I received the grades that I did, but no such luck.....I am now selling all of these as I only collect modern 10's. Basically my question is WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF GETTING A HIGHER GRADE when cracking? Anyone have any bad stories? I am thinking of doing this but dont want to throw another couple grand down the drain.....any help/suggestions/words of wisdom would be much appreciated

also, anyone help with my avatar? I'm pretty computer savy but for the life of me cannot figure out how to personlize my icon...thanks guys

Chris

WinPitcher

K daddy my advice would be to use the new review service in where they only bump you up not down.

No need to crack the cards in for that service.


Steve

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>so this cracking.....I know it makes a huge difference in a cards worth taking a (8) to a (10) but how many of you have resubmitted and it came back the same or worse? The reason I ask is because a couple of months ago I got back 200 cards that I went over and over and over....I would say 90% are 9's, but look better or the same as the 10's I have to compare to.....strangely there were even 3 -(5's) and a 4 in my cards, and 1 (8 ST) that for the life of me I cannot find a stain on......I was so angry that I sent off numerous emails back to PSA asking to speak with the grader and to find out WHY I received the grades that I did, but no such luck.....I am now selling all of these as I only collect modern 10's. Basically my question is WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF GETTING A HIGHER GRADE when cracking? Anyone have any bad stories? I am thinking of doing this but dont want to throw another couple grand down the drain.....any help/suggestions/words of wisdom would be much appreciated

also, anyone help with my avatar? I'm pretty computer savy but for the life of me cannot figure out how to personlize my icon...thanks guys

Chris >>



The 5s likely had a tiny wrinkle....these things tend to hide on a lot of cards and have fooled the best of us.

You can upload a personalized icon on the 15th of every month, unless they decide to do it the 14th and not tell us (such as a couple months ago). When you can upload your own icon there will be an upload box in the your profile. (The link above that says profile),

Clear Skies,
Mark

gaspipe26

Hes only collecting 10's Steve. No bump to 9.5 available.

WinPitcher

Huh? The way I read it is he has cards he thought were nines.

I know that no 9.5 is available.

Unless I mis read his post.


What he said:

I got back 200 cards that I went over and over and over....I would say 90% are 9's


To me I took that as he did not get 9's but he thinks they are.


??

Steve

Edited to add: maybe i did mis read his post.


I dunno

MeteoriteGuy

Those comments by kdaddy are a little confusing.

Perhaps you can help us understand what you are saying kdaddy. It sounds like, I thought 90% were 9's...and I got over 90% 9's....but I don't agree with 8 (4%) of them?

I am also guessing you have the cards back, as you noted you can not find a stain on the ST card. If this is a case, as you asked for thoughts, if you can scan those 8 cards you had problems with we might be able to help more. Please scan front and back of the ST card.

kdaddy

sorry guys, I tend to get ahead of myself when typing. I'll try and clarify a few things before going off the deep end again : )

I collect only 10's in cards 80-present, before that its just the cards/players I loved and what I can get my hands on

I'm sorry I didnt mean "bump" from a 9 to a 9.5 I was asking about cracking and sending my 9's back in hopes that they would come back 10's. I was asking what peoples true thoughts were on this process and if anyone had any BAD stories

What I meant was I went over these cards (the 201) that were sent 4 times and only sent them to hopefully come back 10's. The majority of the cards came back 9's, but there were a few 8's, couple 6's and 5's and even a 4! As I said I also compared the cards I was about to send to cards that had already been graded and still to this day when I compare I do not understand these grades. I can take a few 9's and 8's scattered throughout but out of 201 cards there were only 14 10's! Someone had posted earlier(not sure if it was this thread or not) but they had suggested that you get a better grade when paying for the faster service and me-being the conspiracy theorist thought that from the beginning.

My story is, I've been collecting since 1st grade and 2 years ago started getting into graded cards, PSA seemed like the better place for me as I didnt like the complete break down the other guys use with .5 pts....now all of this has changed on me just when I thought I was getting the hang of it (figuring out a tight range of what my cards might grade). I sent in about 60 cards early last year and they came back pretty much as I predicted so I invested a little more last time and feel I got burned. I wasnt expecting everything perfect and all 10's, but the % of 9's to 10's in that last order still has my a** chapped.

again sorry for the blabbing, I'm just trying to make some collectors/friends like myself and get some advice and maybe a tissue when I send cards off to get graded!

kdaddy

also, Mark thanks for the info on the avatar....I'll get that changed this coming month. Take it easy

Chris