Paper envelopes for toning coins

astrorat

Hi folks-

Anyone know of a good source for those "old time" paper enveloped laden with sulfur and other wonderful chemicals that tone silver pieces so nicely? I have some silver rounds I would like to put in them and forget about for a few years. Thanks.

Lane

ricko

I do not know where to get the old envelopes... but Taco Bell napkins on a sunny windowsill will do the trick. Cheers, RickO

Type2

Officemax.

ArizonaJack

Now will the TacoBell thing take dipped copper cents and start the process of browning/toning? How long is the time frame?

ahooka454

now this is a good topic. i like this one...

Louis

Is this the coin doctor forum?

ArizonaJack

I have an Arizona windowsill, thats extra points I bet

ahooka454

i dont think so. if thats how they came once from the mint, maybe it would be better than ms70 or other stuff. if i am wrong let me know. i love information...

Type2

Now this is for Testing only! so you know what to look for when buying toned coins.

pharmer

<< <i>Hi folks-

Anyone know of a good source for those "old time" paper enveloped laden with sulfur and other wonderful chemicals that tone silver pieces so nicely? I have some silver rounds I would like to put in them and forget about for a few years. Thanks.

Lane >>



Hey Lane, with your background, I thought you might have some thoughts on why and how it was sulfur laden. I've posted my opinion previously, and would like to know what your surmise is. Thanks.

Bill

astrorat

Hi Bill-

I think the sulfur content was simply a by-product of the manufacturing process. And I am not sure why although I am positive I learned about it in inorganic chemistry a few years back! Add to that the acid content of the paper and you have a nice little reactive environment for silver.

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>Is this the coin doctor forum? >>



Nope...this is not about coin doctoring but just using the kind of envelopes that collectors used for decades for US, world, and ancient coins. Storage in these envelopes can impart a nice patina some of the time, but it takes quite a while unless you try to accelerate the process (they we enter the world of doctoring...).

Lane

pharmer

Well Lane, I did some research, and found that sulfuric acid is/was used to break down wood fibers into pulp, and also I believe to bleach it. It's washed afterwards, but my guess was that some residue might remain in the paper products like the envelopes, and the cardboard used for the mint sets of 1947-1959, and that residue then is available to react with coin metals. Your thoughts?

MadMarty

<< <i>I have an Arizona windowsill, thats extra points I bet >>



Not enough humidity!

mirabela

Lane, on the chance you actually want a serious answer here --

I believe JP's corner sells them.

For what it's worth, the ones I bought from them were the neutral manila brown color. Somewhere out there is a source of brighter, more office-paperish looking light yellow, pink, and green ones. In my experience, those colored ones have a more pronounced impact as far as toning goes. That is to say, the manila ones do it, but the colored ones do it really fast.

Personally, I'm happy with the brown ones since toning coins, while I don't mind it for the most part, is not my goal either. But if your point is to produce envelope toning in shorter order, the colored ones seem like the way to go. I've had things ranging from state quarters to silver eagles turn decidely patinated in those colored envelopes in only two or three years.

So ... it might be worth calling JP's and talking with them in person, seeing if they get a choice.

Cheers --

Matt

astrorat

<< <i>Well Lane, I did some research, and found that sulfuric acid is/was used to break down wood fibers into pulp, and also I believe to bleach it. It's washed afterwards, but my guess was that some residue might remain in the paper products like the envelopes, and the cardboard used for the mint sets of 1947-1959, and that residue then is available to react with coin metals. Your thoughts? >>



Hey Bill-

That sounds about right. Thanks, I am busy with a new Aussie puppy and did not have time to do any research.

Lane

pharmer

You bet, nice to know you think it makes sense. I didn't do the research now, but a while back when I found out, here, about the toning that the mint set packaging had produced. It really bugged me that no one had a definite answer as to why, so I just kept digging.

Congrats on your new puppy. We've got a new, well 6 months old, addition ourselves, a Golden named Penny.

mozin

Just get any kind of small paper envelope. Place the coin inside. Then place the envelope in a container with a bunch of matchbooks. Take the coin out once in awhile just to see the toning progression. Takes time, but it is fun to see the pretty colors improving over time.

ahooka454

anyone here think a coin or two may be sitting still in the original envelope?

Cgb

Forget paper envelopes, just shove em into the broiler at 500 degrees...

Bochiman

Put 'em on top of a hot water tank

Type2

or you can use a torch for instent Results.

ahooka454

wow that was done with a torch?


if so thats crazy.

astrorat

<< <i>Lane, on the chance you actually want a serious answer here --

I believe JP's corner sells them.

For what it's worth, the ones I bought from them were the neutral manila brown color. Somewhere out there is a source of brighter, more office-paperish looking light yellow, pink, and green ones. In my experience, those colored ones have a more pronounced impact as far as toning goes. That is to say, the manila ones do it, but the colored ones do it really fast.

Personally, I'm happy with the brown ones since toning coins, while I don't mind it for the most part, is not my goal either. But if your point is to produce envelope toning in shorter order, the colored ones seem like the way to go. I've had things ranging from state quarters to silver eagles turn decidely patinated in those colored envelopes in only two or three years.

So ... it might be worth calling JP's and talking with them in person, seeing if they get a choice.

Cheers --

Matt >>



Thanks, Matt. I am looking for a serious answer. I appreciate the tip on JP's Corner and the colored envelopes.

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>Just get any kind of small paper envelope. Place the coin inside. Then place the envelope in a container with a bunch of matchbooks. Take the coin out once in awhile just to see the toning progression. Takes time, but it is fun to see the pretty colors improving over time. >>



Very interesting...sort of a sulfur incubator!

Lane

ArizonaJack

<< <i>or you can use a torch for instent Results. >>



Thats freakin scary !!!

Type2

<< <i>

<< <i>or you can use a torch for instent Results. >>



Thats freakin scary !!! >>

Yes and Yes so when you see them on the bay stay away.

BBQnBLUES

<< <i>Hi folks-

Anyone know of a good source for those "old time" paper enveloped laden with sulfur and other wonderful chemicals that tone silver pieces so nicely? I have some silver rounds I would like to put in them and forget about for a few years. Thanks.

Lane >>


Lane.. Check out Brent-Kruger supplies.. They sell the 2x2 Kraft envelopes $3.45 per 100. I've been using them to store 100 1-oz Krugerrands for a couple of years, but no noticable toning _yet...

lathmach

If you live in the country and have a septic system, just put them in an old used nylon stocking, and lower them into the tank.
Leave em there for about 3 months.
When you take out your gorgeously toned coins, just lightly rinse them and sell them right away.
Or keep them.
If you keep them, use that spray can flowery smelling stuff in the room you keep them in.
This is a more modern approach to the old "coin in the buttcheeks" toning method.

Ray

cmerlo1

Wrapping them in a page from 'Numismatic News' works well...

Griv

<< <i>If you live in the country and have a septic system, just put them in an old used nylon stocking, and lower them into the tank.
Leave em there for about 3 months.
When you take out your gorgeously toned coins, just lightly rinse them and sell them right away.
Or keep them.
If you keep them, use that spray can flowery smelling stuff in the room you keep them in.
This is a more modern approach to the old "coin in the buttcheeks" toning method.

Ray >>



More comfortable too, especially with those Morgans.

MrObvious

Lane -

I am not certain of this, but I think the brown paper lunch bags you buy in bags of 50 or 100 at the supermarket are the kind of (cheap) paper you are looking for. I have a 1964 Kennedy in a flip with a chunk of lunch bag on each side right now. I started the experiment Friday (odd coincidence). I've actually been planning to try this since I talked to you about toning at the Grading Course in Milwaukee in August. Just finally got to it.

My 14 year old son actually replicated Weimar White's "Coin Chemistry" experiments on a bunch of Kennedy halves as an eighth grade science project last year. We generated sulfur dioxide (inside a fume hood) and toned the coins very rapidly. In addition to demonstrating the Intercept Shield holders are quite effective, he won an award for outstanding chemistry project and a trip to the state finals. The toning from the sulfur gas did not look even remotely natural and coins did smell like rotten eggs.

zeek

I did a bit of digging a few months back. I found out that Selenium is closely related to sulfur. I take Selenium as a supplement, so I took 5 tabs, crushed them up in an air tight storage thingy with a Morgan. Will let you know in 09.

BBQnBLUES

<< <i>If you live in the country and have a septic system, just put them in an old used nylon stocking, and lower them into the tank.
Leave em there for about 3 months.
When you take out your gorgeously toned coins, just lightly rinse them and sell them right away.
Or keep them.
If you keep them, use that spray can flowery smelling stuff in the room you keep them in.
This is a more modern approach to the old "coin in the buttcheeks" toning method.

Ray >>


You must have read this article

Stinky Christmas for man stuck in septic tank

'I don't think I could have stood staying in there much more,' he says DES MOINES, Iowa -

It was a stinky holiday for Robert Schoff. The 77-year-old man spent part of Christmas Eve stuck upside down in the opening of his septic tank, with his head inside and his feet kicking in the air above.

"It wasn't good, I'll tell you what," Schoff said Tuesday. "It was the worst Christmas Eve I've ever had."

Schoff reached into the tank Monday in an effort to find a clog, but he lost his balance and got wedged into the opening. The 5-foot-5-inch, 135-pound Schoff hollered and screamed for help, but it was an hour before his wife, Toni, walked by a window and saw his feet in the air.

"I saw these kicking feet and ran out, but couldn't get him out," Toni Schoff said.
She called 911 and two Polk County sheriff's deputies yanked her husband out of the tank.

"I thought it was the end of my life," Schoff said. "Thank God my wife saw me. I don't think I could have stood staying in there much more."

sinin1

United States paper has been forced to clean up in last 30 years - less sulphur used in process


either buy old paper (can be found in some old shops or on eBay)

or country that does not care about environment and employees

I would suggest China -> probably will get sulphur and lead in paper