<< <i>How about a chain cent or a fugio. These are the coins the founding fathers had in their pockets when they drafted the Articles of Confederation or the Declaration of Independence, or (at least) The Constitution. They are very uniquely American as well, even if they are relatively common. >>
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins. >>
You are, of course, correct. I misspoke. . I was thinking of the very similar continental currency. The Constitution wasn't approved until December of 1787 though.
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins. >>
You are, of course, correct. I misspoke. . I was thinking of the very similar continental currency. The Constitution wasn't approved until December of 1787 though. >>
I agree with your sentiment that they are very historical and they may have been carried and spent by the founding fathers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The silver set of Comitia Americana medals was personally commissioned by Thomas Jefferson, and in 1789 was personally carried by him as he sailed home on the Clermont, from Paris to the USA, where it was rescued from the burning Clermont shortly after arriving. He gave the set to George Washington in March of 1790, and after Washington's death, it eventually found it's way to Daniel Webster's personal collection.
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
Here it is, a piece of American History:
>>
hands down that set rocks. Like I stated before, the Siam set does nothing for me. The Comitia smacked me in the face when I saw the pic
<< <i>It would depend on the brand of plastic surrounding the King of Siam set this week - next week it could be all one grade higher at a different service. >>
another draw back. I really do not see how the grade opinions change so much over the years. I have viewed the set twice in NY, different slabs with a few grade changes.
I also do not see why that 1804 was jacked to a 67. Is there certain "brownie points" given to certain coins due to rarity?
The silver set of Comitia Americana medals was personally commissioned by Thomas Jefferson, and in 1789 was personally carried by him as he sailed home on the Clermont, from Paris to the USA, where it was rescued from the burning Clermont shortly after arriving. He gave the set to George Washington in March of 1790, and after Washington's death, it eventually found it's way to Daniel Webster's personal collection.
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
Here it is, a piece of American History:
OK, fine. Can I still get one of these from the Mint? I think I'd have to cast my lot with JK on this one.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>My understanding of the Comita Americana medals is that they were authorized and designed for individuals that contributed to the Revolution with people receiving gold versions of the medal. . >>
Not so. Several of the medals were awarded to the recipients in silver, not gold. William Washington, John Eager Howard, Henry Lee, John Stewart, and Louis De Fleury were awarded silver medals by congress.
Not all of the whereabouts of the original awarded medals are known. The gold Daniel Morgan medal, for example, is missing. It was actually restruck for the Morgan family in the 1830's since the one brought over by Jefferson, and awarded by Washington was lost. The gold John Paul Jones medal at Annapolis was struck in the 20th century as the original was missing. Other than the DeFleury Medal, none of the whereabouts of the original awarded silver medals is known, and it is questionable as to whether the DeFleury medal is original. I personally do not believe so. The silver Howard medal in the Maryland Historical society turns out to be a cast copy.
I strongly recommend that anyone interested in these medals buy "Comitia Americana" by John W. Adams and Anne Bentley.
<< <i>My understanding of the Comita Americana medals is that they were authorized and designed for individuals that contributed to the Revolution with people receiving gold versions of the medal. >>
Not so. Several of the medals were awarded to the recipients in silver, not gold. William Washington, John Eager Howard, Henry Lee, John Stewart, and Louis De Fleury were awarded silver medals by congress. >>
Thanks for the post. I knew there were some gold ones but didn't know it for all so I put it out there hoping someone would provide the info if I was wrong.
<< <i>Not all of the whereabouts of the original awarded medals are known. >>
Good to know. There seems to be some intrigue there. I wonder if someone can turn the missing medals into a book or movie, a la Da Vinci Code or American Treasure
I personally think that any of the originally awarded medals (especially the gold ones) would be more historic than the extra sets made, but the sets are still very cool.
<< <i>I strongly recommend that anyone interested in these medals buy "Comitia Americana" by John W. Adams and Anne Bentley. >>
<< <i>There seems to be some intrigue there. I wonder if someone can turn the missing medals into a book or movie, a la Da Vinci Code or American Treasure >>
It is not as exciting in real life as in the movies, but I will admit I am one of those seeking the original medals. I believe that some of them may turn up. The Commodore Perry and Zachary Taylor gold medals have come out of the woodwork in the last few years, so it is not impossible to believe that some of these Revlutionary War Congressional Medals will not reappear. I believe I know where the original Howard medal is, and I have located the Morgan gold medal in the 1880's, about 50 years after "Comitia Americana" last has it tracked down. As wonderful as the book is, I am hoping that they sell all copies, so that they can do a second edition. The book has prompted many new discoveries about these medals, as yet unpublished. Yes there is a lot of intrigue about the medals!
BTW my avatar is the reverse of the John Paul Jones Comitia Americana medal, exhibiting 2 large die breaks. Examples are known with one die break (Including the Smithsonian example, and the one shown in QDB's recent "100 Greatest American Medals and Tokens"), but this is the only known example with the second die break at 10:30.
<< <i>The silver set of Comitia Americana medals was personally commissioned by Thomas Jefferson, and in 1789 was personally carried by him as he sailed home on the Clermont, from Paris to the USA, where it was rescued from the burning Clermont shortly after arriving. He gave the set to George Washington in March of 1790, and after Washington's death, it eventually found it's way to Daniel Webster's personal collection.
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
They are both great items. I read the Numismatist article and did not think Pistareen was ought of bounds, he was just getting (understandably) hyper-excited about the Comitia set.
There is no greater compliment to a numismatic author than to come back from vacation and find out that a short column had created genuine discussion and debate. Thanks to you all!
Karl -- are you sure there's nothing else you intensely disliked about the column? Come on, you're among friends here, no need to be shy.
You made it sound like the King of Siam set negotiated and signed the treaty itself. I needed a refresher on the historical importance of our treaty with Siam, which promoted health and happiness for generations of Americans over hundreds of years, versus the American Revolution, which was a forgotten chapter of American history. Oh, wait, I might have that backwards.
Regarding the mechanic comment, was Adam Eckfeldt not a "mechanick" and would he not have been honored by that term? Is mechanic not a sharp contrast with a member of the royal house, which was the context in which it was used?
My dad was a mechanic for over 30 years. I knew how to re-assemble a 4-barrel carburetor long before I knew how to attribute a Betts medal. I never knew it was a bad word. Next time I refer to Mr. Eckfeldt, I'll be sure to call him the "Famous He-Man of the Early Mint Known for His Perfect Posterior and Great Genius."
<< <i>"Those medals, in all probability, many generations hence, will be preserved in the cabinets of the Virtuosi when you and I are mouldering in the dust." >>
Great thread LOL ... love the ripostes and repartees !!
ipmman ... thanks for the graphic with the identifying labels, I have saved that. I own three of them in copper or bronze ... maybe I shall try to collect the others ...
Was that a Holley 650 Double Pumper or a Rochester Q-Jet?
Seriously, I was using your own words, and disagreed with the terminology that you used for the KOS Set and Adam Eckfeldt, who happened to have worked longer at the first U S Mint than you have been alive.
Eckfeldt was hardly considered a "mechanic" in 1838 when the National coin collection was established. Being a mechanic is not a bad thing at all. It takes quite a bit of talent and know-how to be one. However, that connotation for Adam Eckfeldt was simply not accurate for the timeframe and activity which was mentioned.
If you wish to take me to task for something, you will have your opportunity to mis-interpret and discredit what I present in my paper to the MCA Journal about the Libertas Americana medal and Joseph Wright.
You certainly read a lot of extras into what I do say.
If you can't accept someone disagreeing with what you say, that is your decision.
PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
<< <i>Great thread LOL ... love the ripostes and repartees !!
ipmman ... thanks for the graphic with the identifying labels, I have saved that. I own three of them in copper or bronze ... maybe I shall try to collect the others ... >>
"I'm not so sure I'd want to achieve my goal with one that started as a PR65, went PF66 and then PR67 ..."
Aye, doen't even look PR67 to me but then I'm certainly no expert in these. I would think you would just want to get ahold of a nice real one at a price that's reasonable to you.
The gradeflation that goes on must put coins like this in the unreasonable price arena,even for the well-heeled. I mean,lets just call it MS 69 and be done with it. The coin can then fetch the highest price possible and go into the collection of the richest of the rich which is perfectly fine by me.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Are there any good online resources for the Comitias American Medals? I'm going to try and pick up the book mentioned previously. I have a 45mm Bronze William Washington that I would love to learn more about. I'm trying to decide if I want to start collecting the series in the bronze restrikes, and exactly what that would end up costing me.
Comments
<< <i>How about a chain cent or a fugio. These are the coins the founding fathers
had in their pockets when they drafted the Articles of Confederation or the
Declaration of Independence, or (at least) The Constitution. They are very
uniquely American as well, even if they are relatively common. >>
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins. >>
You are, of course, correct. I misspoke. . I was thinking of the very similar continental currency. The Constitution wasn't approved until December of 1787 though.
<< <i>
<< <i>
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 so I doubt they had too many Fugio cents (1787) or chain cents (1793) in their pockets. The Articles of Confederation also predated these coins. >>
You are, of course, correct. I misspoke. . I was thinking of the very similar continental currency. The Constitution wasn't approved until December of 1787 though. >>
I agree with your sentiment that they are very historical and they may have been carried and spent by the founding fathers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The silver set of Comitia Americana medals was personally commissioned by Thomas Jefferson, and in 1789 was personally carried by him as he sailed home on the Clermont, from Paris to the USA, where it was rescued from the burning Clermont shortly after arriving. He gave the set to George Washington in March of 1790, and after Washington's death, it eventually found it's way to Daniel Webster's personal collection.
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
Here it is, a piece of American History:
hands down that set rocks. Like I stated before, the Siam set does nothing for me. The Comitia smacked me in the face when I saw the pic
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>It would depend on the brand of plastic surrounding the King of Siam set this week - next week it could be all one grade higher at a different service.
another draw back. I really do not see how the grade opinions change so much over the years. I have viewed the set twice in NY, different slabs with a few grade changes.
I also do not see why that 1804 was jacked to a 67. Is there certain "brownie points" given to certain coins due to rarity?
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
Here it is, a piece of American History:
OK, fine. Can I still get one of these from the Mint? I think I'd have to cast my lot with JK on this one.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>My understanding of the Comita Americana medals is that they were authorized and designed for individuals that contributed to the Revolution with people receiving gold versions of the medal. . >>
Not so. Several of the medals were awarded to the recipients in silver, not gold. William Washington, John Eager Howard, Henry Lee, John Stewart, and Louis De Fleury were awarded silver medals by congress.
Not all of the whereabouts of the original awarded medals are known. The gold Daniel Morgan medal, for example, is missing. It was actually restruck for the Morgan family in the 1830's since the one brought over by Jefferson, and awarded by Washington was lost. The gold John Paul Jones medal at Annapolis was struck in the 20th century as the original was missing. Other than the DeFleury Medal, none of the whereabouts of the original awarded silver medals is known, and it is questionable as to whether the DeFleury medal is original. I personally do not believe so. The silver Howard medal in the Maryland Historical society turns out to be a cast copy.
I strongly recommend that anyone interested in these medals buy "Comitia Americana" by John W. Adams and Anne Bentley.
<< <i>
<< <i>My understanding of the Comita Americana medals is that they were authorized and designed for individuals that contributed to the Revolution with people receiving gold versions of the medal. >>
Not so. Several of the medals were awarded to the recipients in silver, not gold. William Washington, John Eager Howard, Henry Lee, John Stewart, and Louis De Fleury were awarded silver medals by congress. >>
Thanks for the post. I knew there were some gold ones but didn't know it for all so I put it out there hoping someone would provide the info if I was wrong.
<< <i>Not all of the whereabouts of the original awarded medals are known. >>
Good to know. There seems to be some intrigue there. I wonder if someone can turn the missing medals into a book or movie, a la Da Vinci Code or American Treasure
I personally think that any of the originally awarded medals (especially the gold ones) would be more historic than the extra sets made, but the sets are still very cool.
<< <i>I strongly recommend that anyone interested in these medals buy "Comitia Americana" by John W. Adams and Anne Bentley. >>
I still need to get a hold of that some time.
<< <i>There seems to be some intrigue there. I wonder if someone can turn the missing medals into a book or movie, a la Da Vinci Code or American Treasure
It is not as exciting in real life as in the movies, but I will admit I am one of those seeking the original medals. I believe that some of them may turn up. The Commodore Perry and Zachary Taylor gold medals have come out of the woodwork in the last few years, so it is not impossible to believe that some of these Revlutionary War Congressional Medals will not reappear. I believe I know where the original Howard medal is, and I have located the Morgan gold medal in the 1880's, about 50 years after "Comitia Americana" last has it tracked down. As wonderful as the book is, I am hoping that they sell all copies, so that they can do a second edition. The book has prompted many new discoveries about these medals, as yet unpublished. Yes there is a lot of intrigue about the medals!
BTW my avatar is the reverse of the John Paul Jones Comitia Americana medal, exhibiting 2 large die breaks. Examples are known with one die break (Including the Smithsonian example, and the one shown in QDB's recent "100 Greatest American Medals and Tokens"), but this is the only known example with the second die break at 10:30.
Thought I would add this graphic that identifies the medals:
That was strange...it took a few minutes for that last reply to post...
<< <i>The silver set of Comitia Americana medals was personally commissioned by Thomas Jefferson, and in 1789 was personally carried by him as he sailed home on the Clermont, from Paris to the USA, where it was rescued from the burning Clermont shortly after arriving. He gave the set to George Washington in March of 1790, and after Washington's death, it eventually found it's way to Daniel Webster's personal collection.
Oh, and Benjamin Franklin messed up and didn't manage to get the medals done while he was in Paris, so Jefferson had to do it later for him.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Daniel Webster all posessed the silver set of Comitia Americana Medals. All the medals are stunning in design, most with extraordinary high-relief allegorical designs. It includes a silver Libertas Americana and Washington Before Boston. Most of these medals are extremely rare, with less than 10 examples known in silver. The John Stewart Medal ( at 11:00) is the rarest in the set and has only 2 known examples.
Not too shabby. Worth 20 million I would guess?
The King of Siam set is not shabby either. I do agree with Pistareen though! King of Siam? Who cares?
For Goodness sakes! George Washington owned this set!
Here it is, a piece of American History:
I totally
Karl -- are you sure there's nothing else you intensely disliked about the column? Come on, you're among friends here, no need to be shy.
You made it sound like the King of Siam set negotiated and signed the treaty itself. I needed a refresher on the historical importance of our treaty with Siam, which promoted health and happiness for generations of Americans over hundreds of years, versus the American Revolution, which was a forgotten chapter of American history. Oh, wait, I might have that backwards.
Regarding the mechanic comment, was Adam Eckfeldt not a "mechanick" and would he not have been honored by that term? Is mechanic not a sharp contrast with a member of the royal house, which was the context in which it was used?
My dad was a mechanic for over 30 years. I knew how to re-assemble a 4-barrel carburetor long before I knew how to attribute a Betts medal. I never knew it was a bad word. Next time I refer to Mr. Eckfeldt, I'll be sure to call him the "Famous He-Man of the Early Mint Known for His Perfect Posterior and Great Genius."
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>"Those medals, in all probability, many generations hence, will be preserved in the cabinets of the Virtuosi when you and I are mouldering in the dust." >>
Man fears time, and time fears the pyramid.
ipmman ... thanks for the graphic with the identifying labels, I have saved that. I own three of them in copper or bronze ... maybe I shall try to collect the others ...
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Was that a Holley 650 Double Pumper or a Rochester Q-Jet?
Seriously, I was using your own words, and disagreed with the terminology that you used for the KOS Set and Adam Eckfeldt, who happened to have worked longer at the first U S Mint than you have been alive.
Eckfeldt was hardly considered a "mechanic" in 1838 when the National coin collection was established. Being a mechanic is not a bad thing at all. It takes quite a bit of talent and know-how to be one. However, that connotation for Adam Eckfeldt was simply not accurate for the timeframe and activity which was mentioned.
If you wish to take me to task for something, you will have your opportunity to mis-interpret and discredit what I present in my paper to the MCA Journal about the Libertas Americana medal and Joseph Wright.
You certainly read a lot of extras into what I do say.
If you can't accept someone disagreeing with what you say, that is your decision.
<< <i>Great thread LOL ... love the ripostes and repartees !!
ipmman ... thanks for the graphic with the identifying labels, I have saved that. I own three of them in copper or bronze ... maybe I shall try to collect the others ... >>
Sunnywood, which ones do you have?
Aye, doen't even look PR67 to me but then I'm certainly no expert in these. I would think you would just want to get ahold of a nice real one at a price that's reasonable to you.
The gradeflation that goes on must put coins like this in the unreasonable price arena,even for the well-heeled. I mean,lets just call it MS 69 and be done with it. The coin can then fetch the highest price possible and go into the collection of the richest of the rich which is perfectly fine by me.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein