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Doug Winters recent remarks on collecting vs investing in coins--a good read

Doug knows coins and the coin market.

Without touting his specialty, he guides us in an area that is commonly misunderstood.

Are collectors or investors the more likely to find, after many years , their coins have increased in value to a substantial degree?

He comes down on the side of collectors. If you know your series, and buy coins that are pretty, rare, and in demand, you will probably realize increased value, over time.

But if you buy common dates, in grades that are readily available, then probably you will have some coins, but no increased values.

He is always right on.

TahoeDale

Comments

  • Wish he had defined collector vs investor more clearly. It seems his definition of collector is really that of an investor as well. There are many collectors who could care less about rare and in demand coins, much less afford them. There are many investors who could care less about most rare and in demand coins but will buy $20 Saints, modern bullion and, especially, play the flipping game with the US Mint. Which one sees the beauty in a PF-62 Seated Liberty Quarter or Half that costs around $600 or a crusty Draped Bust Large Cent that costs over $200? Which one spends hundreds of dollars to get MS-70 Roosevelt dimes from the 1990s or early 2000s? Investors who are not numismatists do not care about the coins themselves, only the potential profit or perhaps Registry glory. Collectors with an eye towards future value do not always fit into one or the other category (collector or investor) as defined by Doug Winters.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Often-times the collector has the brains but not the means ($$) or access to the right sources to pull off those long term winners such as a Pittman, Norweb, Eliasberg, Pryor, James Stack, etc. There are scores of well-heeled collectors who put their trust with a major dealer over many years and came out on the short end of the stick.
    When their collections come up for sale it's quite obvious what they did wrong.

    The investor-oriented buyer cannot achieve success without a great dealer behind them. The great collector can do it on their own but often fall short because of that very fact - they don't have the top notch sources or access to the very best coins....or they are too
    "smart" to pay the high premiums often associated with the best coins. It's not an easy balance to maintain.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • I still don't get the whole investor / collector thing. We're told repeatedly that coins are a rotten investment unless you're part of the elite brilliant but the fact is there are billions of coins out there, books that show buy and sell values, and people who will pay more than said book value if they want it bad enough. Lots of dealers making enough to keep brick and mortars open and even more working off the internet making for lower overhead.

    Clearly there are really bad deals to be had. But if you buy at book and sell at book nobody I knew ever went broke taking a profit.

    I'm not saying I could make a living doing it, but my hearts not in it. I have a collection and I've got to say that right now it's worth more than I paid for it collectively. Of course that could change with a big crash in coin prices.

    Clearly the tools exist to help someone not go broke and make money. Unfortunately I believe the big money is made through estate sales. Lifetime collections that get liquidated by a spouse who just doesn't know and care about the collection.

    There's an awful lot of people making a living on something that's not an investment.

    John
    Coin Photos

    Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There's an awful lot of people making a living on something that's not an investment. >>

    image
  • pb2ypb2y Posts: 1,461


    << <i>Doug knows coins and the coin market. Without touting his specialty, he guides us in an area that is commonly misunderstood. Are collectors or investors the more likely to find, after many years , their coins have increased in value to a substantial degree? He comes down on the side of collectors. If you know your series, and buy coins that are pretty, rare, and in demand, you will probably realize increased value, over time. But if you buy common dates, in grades that are readily available, then probably you will have some coins, but no increased values. He is always right on. >>



    Right on for sure. Did he mention the millions defauded from
    the unwary on phony coin investment scams. They are still at
    it and hundreds are on the internet right now. This is a hobby.
    http://www.onlygold.com/Articles/ayr_2001/Why_Numismatic_Investments_are_Always_Horrible_Mistakes_Part_2.asp
    image

  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭


    << <i>He comes down on the side of collectors. If you know your series, and buy coins that are pretty, rare, and in demand, you will probably realize increased value, over time.

    But if you buy common dates, in grades that are readily available, then probably you will have some coins, but no increased values.

    He is always right on. >>


    I disagree.

    First, there are several series, including some gold, where rarer issues don't demand the premium they should, because the series are so sparsely collected.

    Second, I have no respect for him because, a number of months ago, he low-balled me on some coins I was looking to sell.
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    If you collect long enough investor = collector and then it's less fun worrying about how your going to dispose of the coins before your demise.image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DW has written this article in various forms over the years, and the point has also been made by QDB many times, as well.

    I generally agree with his points and TahoeDale's and roadrunner's additional commentary.

    Prospectively, I have had trouble predicting which coins would have significant price appreciation, but when I look back, the coins that I had the most difficulty buying (priced too high, sold quickly with multiple offers, funneled to me by preferred dealers, etc.) were the ones that appreciated. The coins that I found on the bourse, on ebay, just met reserve at Heritage, languished in dealer inventory for some time, etc. were the ones that were losers for me.

  • You dont need "rare" or even "key" coins to see an increase in value. While keys do appreciate faster than common date stuff, its been my experience that common dates do just fine over the course of a few years. What Mr. Winter fails to realize is that for every collector that buys only key date rare coins, there are perhaps 1,000 type collectors out there who are perfectly happy with an 1887 seated dime in 64 condition. Just research Heritage archives from 1998 on common date type coins, and you will see sizable increases.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,703 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My entire collection has been dispersed now for over a year or more, and I can say the scarce choice coins that I strecthed for, and I mean strecthed in some cases!! (some folks even telling me I paid way too much for some of em) becuase they were nice and tough were the first and quickest to sell, and not only that sold for a strong return!!!

  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    I've invested in my collection, so what does that make meimage
  • dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭
    I think much of it depends on how you define investing. Why are you buying coins and how much do you plan to spend on the purchase.

    The big difference I have experienced is that collectors care about the coins and spend a lot time researching and hunting down the right coin. Investors primarily care about rate of return. Who cares what gold bullion looks like except did I buy at a good point and is the price higher today than yesterday.

    If you are an investor it is probably safer to buy common dates and only be concerned about following the overall price of metals.

    The rarer dates require more work to be successful.

    The bad point about collecting is that it is difficult to part with a coin you like that you have worked to acquire.
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