1834 Half Dime- Honest opinions wanted

NHSBaseball

I recently purchased this 1834 (LM-2)"baby bustie", and was extremely pleased with its "look". It is in a PCGS XF-45 holder, and seems to have really nice surfaces and luster.
Yesterday I took it to a local coin dealer who I know (and respect), and he said that it "shouldn't even be in a holder- it's been cleaned". I asked him what he based his opinion on- hairlines or something else I wasn't seeing. He said again that it "just didn't look right".
I looked at it from all angles as best as I can in its slab with a 10x loupe, and I really didn't see any hairlines. I am posting a picture of it here (bad photo skills, so I know it's hard to judge)- and what I really want to know is what he meant by the coin not "looking right". Please give your honest opinion, as I have pretty thick skin and really want to learn what to look for (or not look for!)
I'll be away from the computer for most of the day, so thanks in advance for the help and advice.


The scratches are on the holder- it is pretty beat up.

Musky1011

looks nice

in reality there are few old silvers that haven't been cleaned at one point


Jim

NHSBaseball

ttt

Barndog

some random thoughts: what does the luster look like? There are plenty of details there so that luster should be present if the coin has not been cleaned. That strike is excellent on the reverse. Note particularly how the arrowheads have great detail...you can't find that degree of detail on many high-AU to MS coins. I've seen other pictures you have taken and know what some of your coins look like from having held them in my own hands, so chances are the coin looks better in hand than your photos reveal. There is plenty of crust and toned-over marks on your coin, so my estimation is that your dealer is wrong.

ahooka454

i have heard alot of silver has been cleaned. if so , cool. thats fine as long as its not a brutal nightmare of a cleaning. i like it and think its a nice capped bust half dime. you know me though, i love them all.
Not to mention the sharp reverse, i likey.

LanLord

If you want that dealer to talk it up, he needs to own it and be selling it to you.

Then it would be PQ!

MrHalfDime

I would give you a little bit of advice as it relates to your local dealer friend. You commented that you were "extremely pleased" with your coin, and you have the additional confidence of knowing that it is in a PCGS holder (if that is important to you). Everything was going well for you until you showed the coin to your local dealer. I would forget his comments and rely on your own observations about the coin. Don't let one negative comment ruin your day, or your enjoyment of this hobby.

With this thread being a possible exception, typically whenever an OP posts an image of a new purchase that he is excited about, the respondents delight in panning the coin, throwing out ridiculously low grade opinions, and generally trashing the coin. Take a look through some past threads asking for grade opinions and see what I mean. You need to be thick skinned to subject yourself to such abuse. Barndog, an experienced and knowledgable half dime collector, likes your coin, as do I, so enjoy it and appreciate it.

Now, if you would like a real challenge, notice that the second S in STATES (S2) is filled at the top. This occured very early in the use of that reverse die. Try locating an example of the very same LM-2 that you have, but without S2 filled. I have never located one myself, but had to rely on Barndog to provide me with an example. The 1834 LM-2 marriage is an R1 (1250+ known), but the early die state, without S2 filled, is a high R7!

291fifth

The dealer is right.

greghansen

The obverse doesn't bother me that much, although the toning is a bit 'blotchy' to suit my tastes. I'd rather see a more uniform color instead of the patchy dark areas. Nothing screams 'ugly' at me on the obverse.

The reverse, however, leaves much to be desired IMO. The uneven surface color and texture, especially in the area areound the eagles head is very distracting because it contrasts way too much from the remaining surface areas on the reverse, again IMO. I don't have an opinion as to how the coin gained its current appearance, but I do believe far more attractive more original looking XF45's can be found without a huge amount of difficulty.

Barndog

threads like this get me pumped for the FUN Show!

ahooka454

mr. halfdime to the rescue.


i agree 100%. nice pickup there on the filled s. i saw that, but didnt know anything about it. the stuff one can learn here. i thought probably some gunk or crud on the die. i have a ? if you have the time to pm me.






thanks for the cool thread.

MrHalfDime

PM sent

Cladiator

Looks good to me. I wouldn't worry about what some dealer behind the counter had to say about it. So far you've got 3 bust half dime geeks on this forum chiming in that they like it plus you said you were extremely pleased with it. Sounds good to me.

Unknown

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tightbudget

I don't like it. Looks too weird.

grote15

Looks to have been cleaned at one point. Just starting to retone.

NHSBaseball

I really appreciate everyone's comments- both pro and con. I also appreciated the honest opinion of my local dealer- who can be a bit harsh, but will shoot straight with his thoughts.
Barndog is right- my pictures leave a LOT to be desired. However, the opinions of the posters who thought it looked a little "off" are valid as well- the coin does have a different "look" than many other quality half dimes that I've seen- that's one of the reasons I wanted the opinions of all of y'all.
MrHalfDime, Barndog, and Cladiator's opinions are especially appreciated. One of the most frustrating things to me right now is my continuing lack of the Logan-McCloskey book, which I ordered over a month and a half ago, and recently had to re-order. I HATE feeling ignorant and uneducated- it makes me feel lazy. Conversely, I have gotten so addicted to this series that I continue to buy stuff- probably a sure recipe for disaster- but then again, I love the coins I have bought and do not plan to sell them anytime soon.
Thanks to all for your opinions- I actually do have a thick skin, and do not take criticism of my coins in the wrong way, ESPECIALLY when I ask the entire forum for their thoughts. Don't tell me what you think I want to hear- I want to know what you really think- this way I can learn.
Jack

NHSBaseball

Barndog-
Do you happen to have a pic of the S2 not filled that MrHalfDime was referring to? I'd like to see it if you can post it.

NHSBaseball

Also (triple post- I'll be banned), I took additional pics of the coin that are a little more representative of its look- here they are:

Raybo

I have a grand total of two (2) half dimes myself, one is a 1829 (XF?) and the other is a 1859 O which I think to be a 63.
The "little" coins are hard for me to judge, they just don't seem to have the relief of the larger coinage. I guess because of the area of the planchet and the pressure that is needed to make the design "pop".

I like the looks of your coin NHS but the reverse does look a little wierd to me.

Ray

Barndog

<< <i>Barndog-
Do you happen to have a pic of the S2 not filled that MrHalfDime was referring to? I'd like to see it if you can post it. >>



I don't have a photograph at the ready. I do have an example with me right now of a very early die state 1834 LM-2 without S2 filled, but no means to photograph it. I'll see what I can do over the course of the next few days.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>Barndog-
Do you happen to have a pic of the S2 not filled that MrHalfDime was referring to? I'd like to see it if you can post it. >>



I don't have a photograph at the ready. I do have an example with me right now of a very early die state 1834 LM-2 without S2 filled, but no means to photograph it. I'll see what I can do over the course of the next few days. >>



Here you go. Crude pics, but you can see this is a circ 1834 LM-2 VEDS (very early die state) without the upper loop of S2 filled. These are DANG DIFFICULT TO FIND! This $50 coin is likely worth in excess of $300 to an advanced collector.

doh

I dig the coin. IF it was cleaned, it was long ago and has retoned nicely. Like others have said, all that matters is that you like it, screw the dealer.

BillJones

Given that the specialists have noted that this as a rare die state of common variety, that is the main thing this coin has going for it IMO. I really don’t like the fields around the eagle on the reverse. By the photo they look to have been polished. There is no way you can get that surface from the dies that were used to strike these coins.

From the aspect of condition, I’d have to agree with the local dealer that this coin should not have made it into a holder. But if it pleases you as a variety and die state, and if it is a high R-7, it’s OK.

Barndog

<< <i>Given that the specialists have noted that this as a rare die state of common variety, that is the main thing this coin has going for it IMO. I really don’t like the fields around the eagle on the reverse. By the photo they look to have been polished. There is no way you can get that surface from the dies that were used to strike these coins.

From the aspect of condition, I’d have to agree with the local dealer that this coin should not have made it into a holder. But if it pleases you as a variety and die state, and if it is a high R-7, it’s OK. >>



Bill, the coin in the OP was the common die state, nowhere near R-7. The one I posted is the rare one.

BillJones

<< <i>

<< <i>Given that the specialists have noted that this as a rare die state of common variety, that is the main thing this coin has going for it IMO. I really don’t like the fields around the eagle on the reverse. By the photo they look to have been polished. There is no way you can get that surface from the dies that were used to strike these coins.

From the aspect of condition, I’d have to agree with the local dealer that this coin should not have made it into a holder. But if it pleases you as a variety and die state, and if it is a high R-7, it’s OK. >>



Bill, the coin in the OP was the common die state, nowhere near R-7. The one I posted is the rare one. >>



Sorry, misread the posts ..

If this coin has no die variety or die state things going for it, it's a bad buy IMO.

rhedden

I think the coin looks original and accurately graded, at least on my monitor. I might think differently if I viewed it in person, of course.

It bothers me deeply when dealers unfairly criticize coins in PCGS holders. I am willing to bet that many of the "raw" coins in that dealer's inventory have been lightly cleaned or have other problems, but no discount will be offered to prospective buyers.

BillJones

I don't know what this coin looks like on your monitor, but I don't like the surfaces around the eagle on the reverse at all. The area around the head is of concern. The surfaces there are bright white and have a shiny look to them that says polished to me. That is my main concern. The dies for this type of the coin were not polished that way. At least I've seen a Capped Bust half dime with that look if the coin had not been fooled with.

As for eye appeal, I don't think that this coin is very attractive. It has too much black toning on the obverse, but I know that technical graders tell us to ignore that. That trouble is when the time comes to resell the coin, the buyers won't ignore it.