And give me some time, I'm sending some pm's now, asking the owners of various coins in this thread what's up with their silence concerning your charges.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Yes, those brown lincolns are indeed blue. My point is, I have no idea, but you seem certain they have all been treated. Whats-his-name who is banned claimed that last year at this time. Curious, that. Anyway, I didn't comment then, but it strains credulity past breaking point that they all are treated with ms70. The Indians as well. So, I'm calling BS on your saying Robec's and cohodk's lincolns are treated. The onus is on you, and that was my point. Now, you satisfied? >>
Pharmer, what are you smoking? Seriously? You still didn't answer the question, instead reverting to the "gee,, um they're blue, My point is, I don't know" You sure seemed to know when you made that post, but now you don't?
Oh yeah, don't put words in other people's mouths and expect not to be called on it.
I NEVER SAID anything about Cohodks' sigline, did I? SHOW ME WHERE I SAID COHODK'S COINS HAVE BEEN TREATED.
SHOW ME WHERE I SAID ROBEC YOUR COINS HAVE BEEN TREATED.
I provided a number of links and said to draw your own conclusions. Then you come along putting words in my mouth, just STOP. You putting me down to elevate yourself ain't gonna fly, bud. If you really had no idea about what you were saying, why open your mouth at all? Oh, I think I know, others' coins are no good but yours are the best, the 'finest known's' and whatnot.
It's important to share information about this issue that came to light last year. Once a person has the information then questions can be asked to hopefully prevent a bad purchase. Not that any coin posted here was a bad purchase, but it's important to know these concerns as we learn and grow in the hobby.
And I will state with 100% confidence that the two coins in my sig line, which are the two that I have posted, are original and unmessed with. I see no proof as to otherwise.
Robec, OneCent, Cohodk, I apologize if any of you were offended by my posting to this thread.
I originally simply disagreed with OneCent, that none of the pictured coins in the first post of this thread had been messed with. I felt, and still feel, that two of them may have been treated. It was not my intent to have things read into my posts that would seemingly make it look as though I was putting down other members' coins. That is something that I would never do.
Where's LincolnCentMan? He had the finest collection of early brown Lincolns ever! (or at least registered). I think I remember his 22-d and 24-d were spectacular! Maybe he also once owned this 16-d. I wonder which coin was his favorite.
<< <i>Where's LincolnCentMan? He had the finest collection of early brown Lincolns ever! (or at least registered). I think I remember his 22-d and 24-d were spectacular! Maybe he also once owned this 16-d. I wonder which coin was his favorite. >>
LincolnsRule, that was quite a collection of gem BN's that Lincolncentman had. I remember seeing it a few times and I was blown away, everything was 65BN or higher. I actually managed to pick one up from him a few years ago, it was an 1920-D NGC MS-65BN, still got it, even crossed over to PCGS at the same grade
Someone asked me if one of the coins in the OP were "done". I said I dont know, but that I really them. As I thought about that answer the more it struck me that this AT vs NT debate is virtually meaningless. Take the plastic from around the coin and ask yourself if you still like it. If the answer is yes, the AT vs NT isnt an issue for you either. This is the same arguement as the stated grade on the slab. Crack it out and grade it yourself. Pay for the coin what you think it is worth, for it is you that must be pleased.
Out of all the coins posted in this thread including those in my sigline, there are probably a few that have been done. But I dont care. I think they are all beautiful and would enjoy owning every single one of them. And for those who only cherish the opinion of the TPGs, well they like them also.
Pretty 16d, but I am suprised PCGS 66'd it with that rather large carbon spot on the top of the right wheat stalk. How long ago was it graded?
morris
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
Here's the thing: nobody can be sure of some coins with the colors we see. Blue/green colors to the surface are a result of exposure, NT or AT, to chloride components if by themselves. If with rainbow colors also, generally a result of sulfur compound exposure; obviously these can be combined. MS 70 does not necessarily leave powder residue, but may do so.
Everybody gets mad when the subject is broached, but there are quite a few Lincolns and IHCs that are encapsulated that have been treated, even "red". All of them, no, but quite a few. The doctors are afoot.
BTW, "original skin" is a loaded term. Interesting that real skin is many layers thick and can be "original" or at least remnants of original even after a scrub brush is taken to it.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
hilarious thread. i enjoyed every post. quite a few people will continue to think that THEIR coins are original no matter what others post about it.
experience though, when handling 10000s of pennies, is that they do not turn blue and pink by themselves! ;0)
add some color, get it slabbed, boom! instant profit and people will not consider they got ripped. we have members here who are quite proficient at it and they never post to threads like this.
experience though, when handling 10000s of pennies, is that they do not turn blue and pink by themselves! ;0)
I do not believe you have too much experience then in examining coins that have been stored in Whitman folders, Dansco albums, Wayte Raymond albums, or original mint set packaging, as coins stored in these holders quite commonly tone in shades of pink and blue, as well as violet, green, orange, red, yellow, gold, ect.
Indeed, chemical application can create colors, but it is unfair to use such blanket statements.
Indeed, chemical application can create colors, but it is unfair to use such blanket statements.
chemical application is how they all turned colors. the chemicals in the album. one way is slow, the other fast (ms70). which every coin store seems to sell that i have been in. (funny that, what was the old name of it?).
so take for example a 1916-D.. which had no original mint packaging except in a bag or a roll, correct? you are basically then going to say it sat in an album for decades and attained its color that way? so no matter how many threads we have showing how coins are being doctored you will somehow manage to find a way to justify its current color?
did you own the coins in your sig for the last 30 years? did you put it into the album yourself and allow it to sit for 30 years and got it slabbed yourself? Even though many people have albums and they do not see their wheat pennies turning blue and pink over the years? Even though you have tons of people selling albums constantly on the bay or what not and most of them are not pretty colors?
sure, there are good examples of original mint packaging toning coins but wheat pennies that were circulation strikes?
why do i never see pictures of these albums with stunningly toned copper wheats in them? Why do i never see them being sold at coin stores where they have 1000s to look at?
if you ask me, the people who need to demonstrate they are NT are the owners through evidence. for example, here is my album. I have owned it for 30 years. Enjoy these pictures i have taken and notice how some dates have some really nice colors on them.
now a wood grain wheat, that is something to enjoy and is explainable.
btw, matte proof lincolns, what was the original packaging? never saw it before.
but i was taught here to collect what you like and do not worry about the details of how or why. ;o)
<< <i> btw, matte proof lincolns, what was the original packaging? never saw it before. >>
This quote from the article "History of the Lincoln Cent", written for Mountain View Coins Link
<< <i>Also, the Mint packaged Matte Proofs in thin tissue paper, which soon toned the coins to a brown and/or brown-purple hue. Matte Proof cents with a good portion of original color or all of its original mint red are very rare. >>
<< <i>Then there is the situation of Matte Proof Lincoln cents of the 1909-1916 era. The Mint stored and sold them in so-called tarnish-proof tissue, which was anything but. The cents soon turned a deep brown or purple-brown color. For this reason any Matte Proof cent of this era with full original red surfaces is a rarity! >>
Comments
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Yes, those brown lincolns are indeed blue. My point is, I have no idea, but you seem certain they have all been treated. Whats-his-name who is banned claimed that last year at this time. Curious, that. Anyway, I didn't comment then, but it strains credulity past breaking point that they all are treated with ms70. The Indians as well. So, I'm calling BS on your saying Robec's and cohodk's lincolns are treated. The onus is on you, and that was my point. Now, you satisfied? >>
Pharmer, what are you smoking?
Seriously? You still didn't answer the question, instead reverting to the "gee,, um they're blue, My point is, I don't know" You sure seemed to know when you made that post, but now you don't?
Oh yeah, don't put words in other people's mouths and expect not to be called on it.
I NEVER SAID anything about Cohodks' sigline, did I? SHOW ME WHERE I SAID COHODK'S COINS HAVE BEEN TREATED.
SHOW ME WHERE I SAID ROBEC YOUR COINS HAVE BEEN TREATED.
I provided a number of links and said to draw your own conclusions. Then you come along putting words in my mouth, just STOP. You putting me down to elevate yourself ain't gonna fly, bud.
If you really had no idea about what you were saying, why open your mouth at all? Oh, I think I know, others' coins are no good but yours are the best, the 'finest known's' and whatnot.
Lincoln set Colorless Set
Back with my thoughts in a few.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It's important to share information about this issue that came to light last year. Once a person has the information then questions can be asked to hopefully prevent a bad purchase. Not that any coin posted here was a bad purchase, but it's important to know these concerns as we learn and grow in the hobby.
<< <i>Hey come on guys, its the Holidays. Goodwill to all.
>>
MS-70 can be an issue with early brown coppers. Not all early brown Lincolns with a bluish tone are treated. Plain and simple.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
And I will state with 100% confidence that the two coins in my sig line, which are the two that I have posted, are original and unmessed with. I see no proof as to otherwise.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I originally simply disagreed with OneCent, that none of the pictured coins in the first post of this thread had been messed with. I felt, and still feel, that two of them may have been treated. It was not my intent to have things read into my posts that would seemingly make it look as though I was putting down other members' coins. That is something that I would never do.
Hey LeeG, Merry Christmas yourself
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i>Robec, OneCent, Cohodk, I apologize if any of you were offended by my posting to this thread.
>>
No problem here.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>Merry Christmas:
Finally an undebatable NT Lincoln.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>Where's LincolnCentMan? He had the finest collection of early brown Lincolns ever! (or at least registered). I think I remember his 22-d and 24-d were spectacular! Maybe he also once owned this 16-d. I wonder which coin was his favorite. >>
LincolnsRule, that was quite a collection of gem BN's that Lincolncentman had. I remember seeing it a few times and I was blown away, everything was 65BN or higher. I actually managed to pick one up from him a few years ago, it was an 1920-D NGC MS-65BN, still got it, even crossed over to PCGS at the same grade
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i>Hey LeeG, Merry Christmas yourself
Stewart Blay didn't like this coin:
PCGS MS64BN:
Edited to add reference to coin for clarification.
Out of all the coins posted in this thread including those in my sigline, there are probably a few that have been done. But I dont care. I think they are all beautiful and would enjoy owning every single one of them. And for those who only cherish the opinion of the TPGs, well they like them also.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Now that coin -- 66RB's '20-D -- I like. And I'm not insinuating anything.
Edited to add reference to coin for clarification. >>
Don't you hate when that happens.
It will be interesting to see what the final hammer is. Ultimately, the market will decide...
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
morris
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
Everybody gets mad when the subject is broached, but there are quite a few Lincolns and IHCs that are encapsulated that have been treated, even "red". All of them, no, but quite a few. The doctors are afoot.
BTW, "original skin" is a loaded term. Interesting that real skin is many layers thick and can be "original" or at least remnants of original even after a scrub brush is taken to it.
Well, just Love coins, period.
to think that THEIR coins are original no matter what others post
about it.
experience though, when handling 10000s of pennies, is that they
do not turn blue and pink by themselves! ;0)
add some color, get it slabbed, boom! instant profit and people
will not consider they got ripped. we have members here who are
quite proficient at it and they never post to threads like this.
too busy in the lab.
do not turn blue and pink by themselves! ;0)
I do not believe you have too much experience then in examining coins that have been stored in Whitman folders, Dansco albums, Wayte Raymond albums, or original mint set packaging, as coins stored in these holders quite commonly tone in shades of pink and blue, as well as violet, green, orange, red, yellow, gold, ect.
Indeed, chemical application can create colors, but it is unfair to use such blanket statements.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
chemical application is how they all turned colors. the chemicals in the album. one way is slow, the other fast (ms70).
which every coin store seems to sell that i have been in. (funny that, what was the old name of it?).
so take for example a 1916-D.. which had no original mint packaging except in a bag or a roll, correct?
you are basically then going to say it sat in an album for decades and attained its color that way?
so no matter how many threads we have showing how coins are being doctored you will somehow
manage to find a way to justify its current color?
did you own the coins in your sig for the last 30 years? did you put it into the album yourself and
allow it to sit for 30 years and got it slabbed yourself? Even though many people have albums and
they do not see their wheat pennies turning blue and pink over the years? Even though you have
tons of people selling albums constantly on the bay or what not and most of them are not pretty colors?
sure, there are good examples of original mint packaging toning coins but wheat pennies that were
circulation strikes?
why do i never see pictures of these albums with stunningly toned copper wheats in them? Why do
i never see them being sold at coin stores where they have 1000s to look at?
if you ask me, the people who need to demonstrate they are NT are the owners through evidence.
for example, here is my album. I have owned it for 30 years. Enjoy these pictures i have taken and
notice how some dates have some really nice colors on them.
now a wood grain wheat, that is something to enjoy and is explainable.
btw, matte proof lincolns, what was the original packaging? never saw it before.
but i was taught here to collect what you like and do not worry about the details of how or why. ;o)
However, they lack of lot of the detail that I see in the blue and grey specimens.
Remember kids :
Diplomacy is what it takes to get you out of what tact would have kept you out of.
<< <i>
btw, matte proof lincolns, what was the original packaging? never saw it before. >>
This quote from the article "History of the Lincoln Cent", written for Mountain View Coins Link
<< <i>Also, the Mint packaged Matte Proofs in thin tissue paper, which soon toned the coins to a brown and/or brown-purple hue. Matte Proof cents with a good portion of original color or all of its original mint red are very rare. >>
This quote from our own PCGS Coin Guide. Link
<< <i>Then there is the situation of Matte Proof Lincoln cents of the 1909-1916 era. The Mint stored and sold them in so-called tarnish-proof tissue, which was anything but. The cents soon turned a deep brown or purple-brown color. For this reason any Matte Proof cent of this era with full original red surfaces is a rarity! >>
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts