Thoughts on Grade?

MMagidson

I just got the attached coin. I bought it based on it being PR65+. I'm getting ready to send it in for grading--but being rather impatient, I thought would get some opinions on the coin. I think it looks very good, but what do I know?

Cladiator

Gotta see it to grade it

MMagidson

Sorry, I had trouble getting it to post.

TennesseeDave

Did that come from the seller that lists everything as FDC?There has been a lot of discissions about it here.I will be interested to find out if it grades.I have a lot of Morgans,but no proofs and cannot tell for sure from your pics.I do wish you the best of luck getting it graded.Keep us updated.

MMagidson

Yes, everything from the Grandfathers collection "FDC". To a relative layman, a lot of his coins looked very good. This one is pretty unusual though--assuming it really grades PR, etc.

SpaceMonkey

Longacre

I will call that environmental damage, and no grade.

Oh yea, no sticker either.

gecko109

I dont see the environmental damage Mr. Longacre speaks of, but what does bother me is the lack of toning close to the devices. That is sometimes an indicator of AT. As far as technical grade, it looks better than 65 all day long. As far as being a proof issue, I couldnt pick out a proof morgan if there were 3 of them in a group of 20 DMPL's all side by side. Good luck with the submission though.

Doogy

here you go, here is a thread regarding that seller:

click here!


It seems that based his feedback, those people that sent in coins to NGC/PCGS got them back in 'bodybags' for some problems. I think the seller is a con artist, and there is a good chance you got taken. sorry.

WinPitcher

granted i only went back 100 feedbacks but I don't see any negs or soft positives. I see 1 neutral and that person later followed up saying it should have been a positive.


what am i missing?


Steve

MMagidson

I haven't actually paid for the coin yet, so I'd really appreciate any input. Though is feedback is all positive, I found one (now) that shows five positives retracted for altered coins, etc. Any more?

Thanks,

Doogy

<< <i>granted i only went back 100 feedbacks but I don't see any negs or soft positives. I see 1 neutral and that person later followed up saying it should have been a positive.


what am i missing?


Steve >>





The worst of his feedback (Same buyer - left all positive until 5 coins went to NGC). I can imagine these are just the tip of the iceberg, many others may not be having theirs slabbed, and are probably newbie buyers.

Nice coin. Thanks
*
Follow-up by jarnold38 (Oct-30-07 20:39):
ERROR!! BEWARE THE SCANS. DESIGNED TO MISLEAD BUYERS. LOTS OF PROBLEMS HIDDEN

1901-O Morgan Silver Dollar Lustrous FDC Unc (#230171379706) US $111.00 View Item

Decent coin. Thanks
*
Follow-up by jarnold38 (Oct-30-07 20:38):
FEEDBACK MISTAKE. SELLERS SCANS ARE DESIGNED TO HIDE PROBLEMS/IMPERFECTIONS

1898 Morgan Silver Dollar FDC PROOFLIKE (#230171378817) US $111.00 View Item

Nice coin. Thanks
*
Follow-up by jarnold38 (Oct-30-07 20:33):
FEEDBACK MISTAKE. COIN CAME BACK FROM NGC AS IMPROPERLY CLEANED. MISLEADING SCAN

1880-S Morgan Silver Dollar MONSTER PROOFLIKE (#230171376809) US $188.88 View Item

As advertised. Thanks
*
Follow-up by jarnold38 (Oct-30-07 20:37):
SCANS MISLEADING. NGC REFUSED TO SLAB THE COIIN. ENHANCED SURFACES

1888-O Morgan Silver Dollar Lustrous FDC Unc (#230171586868) US $102.50 View Item

As advertised. Thanks
*
Follow-up by jarnold38 (Oct-30-07 20:35):
ERRIR!! ERROR!! CAME BACK FROM NGC AS HAVING MODIFIED SURFACES. SCANS MISLEADING

1885-O Morgan Silver Dollar MONSTER PROOFLIKE (#230170353271)

WinPitcher

Thanks, i should have gone on to page 5 it seems.


If you have yet to pay for the coin i would bail on it.

Steve

Doogy

<< <i>I haven't actually paid for the coin yet, so I'd really appreciate any input. Though is feedback is all positive, I found one (now) that shows five positives retracted for altered coins, etc. Any more?

Thanks, >>



based on his previous auctions, I wouldn't pay any more than 100 bucks for that coin. I'll be willing to bet you a bunch that a lot of the buyers are either newbies that don't know the difference between an original and cleaned/altered coin, or that they are buyers giving these as upcoming Christmas gifts.

I don't think it will be long until more people catch on to his charade, and the negatives come pouring in.

joecopper

How can this not be a corroded coin????????????????????/

CalGold

First, if you want opinions from any board members who know Morgan proofs edit the title of your thread and ask if your Morgan dollar is a proof. Then disregard anyone who answers without an explanation--unless the repsondant is TDN, Andy Lustig, Julian or soemone like that.

No one can grade a proof (if it is a proof) fron a photo. Grading proofs weighs heavily on mirror quality and the presence or absence of hairlines. Unless you are very familiar with grading proofs, you are not going to have a sense of how the coin may grade.

Even if you cannot grade it per se you should at least take a stab at figuring whether it is even a proof. You have the coin in hand. The rest of us are just looking at a picture, and its not the sharpest photo either.

Does it have deep watery mirrors under the toning? Or are the fields dull? If the fields are dull, it could still be a proof, but it won't grade high.

Check out the hair below Liberty's ear and cascading down her neck. It should have a sharp knifelike appearance.

The photo makes the eagle's breast feathers look indistinct--does it look like that in hand? The feather detail should be sharp.

Check out the reeded edge. Are the reeds sharp and squared off and is there reflectivity between them?

Next compare what you paid for the coin to what a PCGS PR65 would cost. If you paid the going rate, send it back and buy a graded one. In fact, if you do not know if it is reaally a proof and you paid more than you would wager on a horse....well, you be the judge on whether you are making a good bet.


CG

tyler267

I agree with the other posts in that the coin cannot be graded using a photo.

This aution scares me:

No Paypal
No Returns
The selling price assumes a problem free Proof 65

Just my two cents

291fifth

I can't grade it from those photos. I would have to see the surfaces under both magnification and proper lighting.

Personally, I would never pay 65 money for a raw coin on eBay, especially one with no returns allowed.

Russ

<< <i>I'm getting ready to send it in for grading >>



There are many of us who would be very interested in the results.

Russ, NCNE

cohodk

Interesting how this coin is mentioned and then the next day the supposed buyer starts posting here.

Russ

<< <i>Interesting how this coin is mentioned and then the next day the supposed buyer starts posting here. >>



Unless there is more than one thread mentioning this coin, this thread was posted first.

Russ, NCNE

Danegeld

BU from what I can see. Nice color too...

Ben

MMagidson

Interesting how this coin is mentioned and then the next day the supposed buyer starts posting here.

Purely a coincidence. Which I'm sure you don't believe in.

However, the buyer, me, recently won some money in the Bahamas and decided to build-up a collection that he hadn't touched in years. If you look at ebay, you'll notice I've made lots of recent purchases of coins--oh, and my wife buys and sells kids stuff all the time.

I joined PCGS to get submission privilegs and quickly discovered this forum.

That's all there is too it.

Not sure what nefarious benefit I would get.

BECOKA

Pretty colors. AT and no grade.

Edited: OK some key points have been pointed out by a few people. Color might by natural so I rescind my no grade comment.

Russ

<< <i>Pretty colors. AT and no grade. >>



I'm not convinced it's AT. But, I'm also not convinced it's a proof. The strike on the breast feathers seems too weak.

Russ, NCNE

cohodk

<< <i>Interesting how this coin is mentioned and then the next day the supposed buyer starts posting here.

Purely a coincidence. Which I'm sure you don't believe in.

However, the buyer, me, recently won some money in the Bahamas and decided to build-up a collection that he hadn't touched in years. If you look at ebay, you'll notice I've made lots of recent purchases of coins--oh, and my wife buys and sells kids stuff all the time.

I joined PCGS to get submission privilegs and quickly discovered this forum.

That's all there is too it.

Not sure what nefarious benefit I would get. >>



My confusion.

Good luck with your collecting endeavors. My advice would be to team up with a dealer you can trust rather than going it alone on EBay.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

I'm pretty sure it's not AT. It looks pretty natural to me--and pretty attractive to boot.

I'm interested in seeing how it grades out. Almost all of this guy's coins go for big money and I want to see if it's all a scam or if he actually has some quality material.

leothelyon

<< <i>I just got the attached coin. I bought it based on it being PR65+. I'm getting ready to send it in for grading--but being rather impatient, I thought would get some opinions on the coin. I think it looks very good, but what do I know? >>



Perhaps you could take it to a dealer near you......a coin shop and get an opinion there. The pics are those from the seller, couldn't make much of the coin then. It's also very likely the coin was improperly stored so the toning might smudge if you mishandle the coin. Other then not seeing any marks, the coin looks dark. Does this picture show the coin in a better light?




Leo

MrBeast

Judging by the seller (rather than the coin, which would need to be seen in hand), I suggest that you do not follow through on the purchase - not worth the risk!