Haven't seen it in hand. But would have a tough time believing that the surfaces would be clean enough to warrant a true 68 grade. The luster appears quite subdued and more like 65/66 grade. But photos can lie.
I'd be far more impressed if this resided in a PCGS holder. There's an NGC 1808/7 in a MS69 holder running around so I guess anything is possible.
Can you take those stickers, off of another slab, and put it on another, without anybody knowing? If so, this maybe could be the case. I do know that pictures can lie! I like though!!
SEE the BULL!! BUY the BULL!! BE the BULL!! Do your homework first. And, you will learn alot!!
<< <i>Can you take those stickers, off of another slab, and put it on another, without anybody knowing? If so, this maybe could be the case. I do know that pictures can lie! I like though!! >>
Where do you see rub on this coin? As bust halves go all the usual suspects are quite rounded and full. If one starts counting strike weaknesses as rub, you'd never find an UNC capped bust half.
Dang! And I already shot my wad on that 1897 "1 in the Neck" IHC....
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Roadrunner knows quite a bit about this series. I think any classic coin that is graded higher than MS 67 is overgraded / market graded. Think Scott Travers said as much in a book he wrote in the mid 90s and I agree with him.
If you look at pop reports re Unc. Cap Bust Halves, you see far more coins of a specific grade in NGC vs. PCGS holders. Not coincidentally, there is a huge chasm on the bluesheet re PC & NGC CBHs in MS 65. Re retail, NGC CBHS are normally heavily discounted vs. their PC counterparts. While I have a number of classic coins in NGC holders, for these reasons, I would not get a CBH in an NGC holder.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Can you take those stickers, off of another slab, and put it on another, without anybody knowing? If so, this maybe could be the case. I do know that pictures can lie! I like though!! >>
The spreads on CBH's in MS65 are huge. Probably from $4700 to $9500 based on quality, with NGC tending towards the bottom half of this range. I had a fairly decent one offered to me at the last show I attended for $7500. Considering the upside was $0 (for a cross) and the downside was $2500, it was a no brainer pass. Unless you love a coin, walk on by.
In the 66 and 67 grades similar spreads exist. An MS68 bust half should blow you away and then some. I'm not getting that vibe from the photos of this 1811. There's a reason why PCGS grades half as many gem bust halves as NGC. I seem to remember back around 1988 when Mr. Eureka was parading around with a PCGS MS67 CBH. I believe at the time it was the first (one one of very few) graded that high. And at that time, anything getting a 67 grade was miraculous. Not one of my personally owned type coins received a grade of higher than 66 back in 1986-1989.
<< <i>Where do you see rub on this coin? As bust halves go all the usual suspects are quite rounded and full. If one starts counting strike weaknesses as rub, you'd never find an UNC capped bust half.
roadrunner >>
OBV: Chin, nose, haircurls under BERTY REV: All high points of left wing, Eagle's head, ridgeline of right wing. Dull grey areas indicating friction. Not saying it shouldn't be MS, just saying for a high five figure coin I'd look at a lack of frost on the high points as friction. Obviously tho, it passes the in-hand test.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
As I suspected, we're seeing CAC stickered coins advertised as "premium quality." No, it means acceptable for the grade unless it has one of those "crack me out because I'm undergraded" stickers on it.
As I suspected, we're seeing CAC stickered coins advertised as "premium quality." No, it means acceptable for the grade unless it has one of those "crack me out because I'm undergraded" stickers on it.
When you see the coin in person please file a report- Not exactly surprising that an NGC coin, regardless of how nice, would be ripped here- and without seeing it of course- I'm talking quality wise not pricewise
That photo is large and clear but is not at all flattering for a coin graded MS-68.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think any classic coin that is graded higher than MS 67 is overgraded / market graded. Think Scott Travers said as much in a book he wrote in the mid 90s
Written well after he made a small forture on a hoard of overgraded 1878-1904 NGC proof sets in the early 90's he promoted.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
We have oft discussed the limitations of grading from images alone.
Having read the comments about this coin from the other forum discussion, my primary take away is that if the history of this coin is correct. including NCS conservation, this coin could single-handedly go along way to impugn the reputation of CAC.
Comments
The luster appears quite subdued and more like 65/66 grade. But photos can lie.
I'd be far more impressed if this resided in a PCGS holder. There's an NGC 1808/7 in a MS69 holder running around so I guess anything is possible.
roadrunner
<< <i>Can you take those stickers, off of another slab, and put it on another, without anybody knowing? If so, this maybe could be the case. I do know that pictures can lie! I like though!! >>
Supposedly the stickers are tamper resistance.
roadrunner
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
If you look at pop reports re Unc. Cap Bust Halves, you see far more coins of a specific grade in NGC vs. PCGS holders. Not coincidentally, there is a huge chasm on the bluesheet re PC & NGC CBHs in MS 65. Re retail, NGC CBHS are normally heavily discounted vs. their PC counterparts. While I have a number of classic coins in NGC holders, for these reasons, I would not get a CBH in an NGC holder.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Can you take those stickers, off of another slab, and put it on another, without anybody knowing? If so, this maybe could be the case. I do know that pictures can lie! I like though!! >>
Do you know who the seller is?
Unless you love a coin, walk on by.
In the 66 and 67 grades similar spreads exist. An MS68 bust half should blow you away and then some. I'm not getting that vibe from the photos of this 1811. There's a reason why PCGS grades half as many gem bust halves as NGC. I seem to remember back around 1988 when Mr. Eureka was parading around with a PCGS MS67 CBH. I believe at the time it was the first (one one of very few) graded that high. And at that time, anything getting a 67 grade was miraculous. Not one of my personally owned type coins received a grade of higher than 66 back in 1986-1989.
roadrunner
<< <i>Where do you see rub on this coin? As bust halves go all the usual suspects are quite rounded and full. If one starts counting strike weaknesses as rub, you'd never find an UNC capped bust half.
roadrunner >>
OBV: Chin, nose, haircurls under BERTY
REV: All high points of left wing, Eagle's head, ridgeline of right wing.
Dull grey areas indicating friction. Not saying it shouldn't be MS, just saying for a high five figure coin I'd look at a lack of frost on the high points as friction. Obviously tho, it passes the in-hand test.
When you see the coin in person please file a report- Not exactly surprising that an NGC coin, regardless of how nice, would be ripped here- and without seeing it of course- I'm talking quality wise not pricewise
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
TALK
.....................................................
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Written well after he made a small forture on a hoard of overgraded 1878-1904 NGC proof sets in the early 90's he promoted.
Having read the comments about this coin from the other forum discussion, my primary take away is that if the history of this coin is correct. including NCS conservation, this coin could single-handedly go along way to impugn the reputation of CAC.
the coin is not a MS-68.
Just from the photo I would
say that it is a MS65/66. But what
the heck, I'm just an old bear.
Camelot
But it's what we do.
Camelot