1653-1853 Massachusetts Shilling Large Cent -- IDENTIFIED! C. Wyllys Betts false die
jonathanb
Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
That's certainly not the sort of thread title I ever expected to write!
Sometimes I grab stuff that I know nothing about, simply because I look at it and say, "That's neat!". This has got ot have a story behind it. Too bad I don't have a clue what it is.
Does this piece ring any bells for anyone? The shilling side of the coin looks like it was hand-engraved into the coin (in negative, obviously). The flatting of the large cent side says that this was mashed pretty hard at some point. And in case anyone wasn't paying attention, the Massachusetts shillings were dated 1652, not 1653...
Sometimes I grab stuff that I know nothing about, simply because I look at it and say, "That's neat!". This has got ot have a story behind it. Too bad I don't have a clue what it is.
Does this piece ring any bells for anyone? The shilling side of the coin looks like it was hand-engraved into the coin (in negative, obviously). The flatting of the large cent side says that this was mashed pretty hard at some point. And in case anyone wasn't paying attention, the Massachusetts shillings were dated 1652, not 1653...
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Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You have a fine taste in the bizarre, offbeat, and otherwise unusual material.
Send me your email address and I will send you a copy of the article.
Tom DeLorey
Check out Taxay's "Counterfeit, Misstruck and Unofficial Coins," or the Ford sale (Part 14) that had struck copies in it. One of the dies (Lot 555, misattributed) for a NE Shilling brought $1300.
Cliff, er, TD
<< <i>...and then beat the hell out of the sandwich on an anvil. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Was he also one of the ones making all those curious "clashed" coins with different denominations?
I once had an 1880s Indian cent that had been strongly clashed with a Seated dime's reverse.
For the convenience of folks who didn't track down the Ford specimen that Tom refers to, here are the pictures linked from
Lot 555 of the Ford XIV sale at Stacks:
Lot 555 was part of a series of 7 struck copies struck by Betts (lots 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557). Man, those are crude looking pieces. It's hard to compare my piece to the mostly-blank NE shilling die, but the style of the legends is very similar across all of the pieces and on this one. Here's the obverse of Lot 554, which has the longest legends:
<< <i>While Betts was a student at Yale, he supplemented his income by making fantasy coins for sale as novelties. He would take one large cent or token or whatever was available and hand cut a die in reverse image, do the same with another piece for the other die, and then take a well-worn or smoothed down coin or token, heat it, place it between the two "dies" and wrap the sandwich in lead foil, and then beat the hell out of the sandwich on an anvil. This would emboss up a passable image on the center piece. >>
That also explains something I didn't understand about my piece. There's a large raised area on the 12:00 edge of the carved side. Why would someone carve a design that wasn't flat? The answer, clearly, is that they wouldn't. Based on Tom's description, the central "planchet" must have slipped during "striking", leaving this die room to distort around it while the rest of the die was busy being flattened. As a sideeffect, it also shows the amount of flattening these dies received during striking, if you compare the depth of the "dentils" in the mushed and non-mushed areas.
<< <i>Wouldn't that destroy the copper "die"? >>
Well, yes. I would call my piece pretty well destroyed. The piece in the Ford sale is in similar condition. It looks like each of these dies was a single-use proposition. That implies that every one of the Betts struck copies would be unique. It also implies that it would be possible to match up a struck piece to the die that struck it. Wouldn't that be cool?
<< <i>When was Betts active? >>
I don't know much about him, but I've heard the name. He wrote the book on Colonial-era medals about America. It sounds like Tom's article has more information. Lot 557 in the Ford sale was accompanied by a ticket from Ryder that said ''A fraud made by Wyllys Betts in 1862 or 1863 when at Yale College.'' I guess that's the time period.
<< <i>Was he also one of the ones making all those curious "clashed" coins with different denominations?
I once had an 1880s Indian cent that had been strongly clashed with a Seated dime's reverse. >>
No, Betts was a private individual. Those weird clashes are typically attributed to the Midnight Minter at the US Mint. I don't think anyone knows who that was specifically, but it was clearly a Mint employee, which rules out Betts.
<< <i>I like it. You've got a very neat bit of numismatic history there.
I agree. That's a really interesting piece.
TD
<< <i>Very coooooooool! >>
I bet she sells this week!
Most of his pieces did not exist in real life, so they could be considered as fantasies rather than copies.
TD
TD
You caught me at a moment of weakness.
Anybody else????????
I'm still in for $100.
TD
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Interesting item in any case.
Edit.: Looks like I was wrong. I should have read the rest of the replies!
TD
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>Well, since the thread is back up, there' s another Betts die in the Tony Terranova collection here. >>
Thank you.
TD
<< <i>Dang, I was hoping nobody would notice the other one!
Well, most people still won't know what it is; of those that do, most won't want to bid on it; of those that want to; most won't because they have no idea what to bid or for other reasons; and of those that do, they'll outbid you anyway. :-)
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Old thread alert.
It annoys me that so many links in old threads no longer work.
I’m happy that @jonathanb’s images in the OP still work!
Copy and paste into your post so not to lose the pics?
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
Does anybody have a copy of Ford Sale #14 handy who would be willing to post images (not links) of these lots?