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Why We're Really Pissed Off At Bonds
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I was listening to Dan Patrick this morning and I think he nailed it on the head as to why we, as fans, are really pissed off at Bonds. It's not so much as he allegedly used steroids. Lots of players are alleged and some have admitted to using steroids. But that it's he allegedly used steroids and broke arguably the most hallowed record(s) in all of sports. Would we really care and/or hold as much disdain towards Bonds if his alleged use of steroids enabled him to play longer and put up better numbers, but not ridiculous numbers?
I suppose the real question is whether we, as fans, are concerned with cheating and steroids use in a vacuum, e.g. cheating and any use of steroids is wrong. Or are we concerned only when the cheating results in a marked advantage, greater numbers, breaking all-time records, whatever you want to call it. I would think it would be the former. But I believe I am wrong and we care only when cheating results in a marked advantage. Otherwise, why aren't we calling for the following players' heads, e.g. those who have been suspended for steroid use:
Major League Players Suspended
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 10 days OF [26]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 10 days OF [27]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 10 days P [28]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 10 days OF [29]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 10 days P [30]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 10 days P [31]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 10 days 1B/DH [32]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 10 days P [33]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 10 days SS [34]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 10 days P [35]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 10 days P [36]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 10 days OF [37]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 50 games P [38]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 50 games P [39]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 50 games P [40]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 50 games P [41]
Neifi Perez Detroit Tigers July 6, 2007 25 games SS/2B [42]
Neifi Perez Detroit Tigers August 3, 2007 80 games SS/2B [43]
Mike Cameron San Diego Padres October 31, 2007 25 games OF [44]
Players With MLB Experience Suspended
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [45]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [46]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [47]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [48]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [49]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [50]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [51]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [52]
Steven Smyth Oakland Athletics May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [53]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [54]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [55]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [56]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [57]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [58]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [59]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [60]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [61]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [62]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [63]
Also, why aren't we screaming at the top of our lungs that Canseco and Caminiti's MVP awards be taken away ... AS THEY HAVE ADMITTED TO STEROID USE. Not to mention Jason Giambi. Why isn't there an effort to expunge their records from the books and have Mike Greenwell declared the 1988 AL MVP and Mike Piazza the 1996 NL MVP. But to be clear, I hope Bonds is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I just wish we didn't denigrate Bonds on one hand and ignore all the other cheaters out there. Let's denigrate all of them, expunge all their records and stats.
ESPN asked last night whether Bonds' indictment is about lying or about steroid use. To ESPN, I offer the following: Perjury is a false statement of a material fact wilfully made under oath before a competent tribunal. The key phrase is "material fact." If Bonds testified that his first year with the Giants was 1994 when in fact it was 1993, is that a false statement? Absolutely. Is it a material fact? Probably not.
Point being, a false statement, UNLIKE steroid use, is not viewed in a vacuum. What are you lying about? Here's the feds are charging that Bonds' lied about using steroids. So to ESPN, Bonds' indictment is all about steroid use. And now, I'm off my rant.
/s/ JackWESQ
I suppose the real question is whether we, as fans, are concerned with cheating and steroids use in a vacuum, e.g. cheating and any use of steroids is wrong. Or are we concerned only when the cheating results in a marked advantage, greater numbers, breaking all-time records, whatever you want to call it. I would think it would be the former. But I believe I am wrong and we care only when cheating results in a marked advantage. Otherwise, why aren't we calling for the following players' heads, e.g. those who have been suspended for steroid use:
Major League Players Suspended
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 10 days OF [26]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 10 days OF [27]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 10 days P [28]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 10 days OF [29]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 10 days P [30]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 10 days P [31]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 10 days 1B/DH [32]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 10 days P [33]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 10 days SS [34]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 10 days P [35]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 10 days P [36]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 10 days OF [37]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 50 games P [38]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 50 games P [39]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 50 games P [40]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 50 games P [41]
Neifi Perez Detroit Tigers July 6, 2007 25 games SS/2B [42]
Neifi Perez Detroit Tigers August 3, 2007 80 games SS/2B [43]
Mike Cameron San Diego Padres October 31, 2007 25 games OF [44]
Players With MLB Experience Suspended
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [45]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [46]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [47]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [48]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [49]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [50]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [51]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [52]
Steven Smyth Oakland Athletics May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [53]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [54]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [55]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [56]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [57]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [58]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [59]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [60]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [61]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [62]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [63]
Also, why aren't we screaming at the top of our lungs that Canseco and Caminiti's MVP awards be taken away ... AS THEY HAVE ADMITTED TO STEROID USE. Not to mention Jason Giambi. Why isn't there an effort to expunge their records from the books and have Mike Greenwell declared the 1988 AL MVP and Mike Piazza the 1996 NL MVP. But to be clear, I hope Bonds is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I just wish we didn't denigrate Bonds on one hand and ignore all the other cheaters out there. Let's denigrate all of them, expunge all their records and stats.
ESPN asked last night whether Bonds' indictment is about lying or about steroid use. To ESPN, I offer the following: Perjury is a false statement of a material fact wilfully made under oath before a competent tribunal. The key phrase is "material fact." If Bonds testified that his first year with the Giants was 1994 when in fact it was 1993, is that a false statement? Absolutely. Is it a material fact? Probably not.
Point being, a false statement, UNLIKE steroid use, is not viewed in a vacuum. What are you lying about? Here's the feds are charging that Bonds' lied about using steroids. So to ESPN, Bonds' indictment is all about steroid use. And now, I'm off my rant.
/s/ JackWESQ
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Comments
Nicely written. I have started to write a similar statement, but never succeeded. That's good 'cause it would have paled in comparison. One item that I would like to add is the fact that Bonds is really, really easy to dislike. As fans, we often put our heroes up on pedestals. However, when they tick us off, we love nothing better than knock 'em down. Bonds should make an interesting sociological or public relations study.
edited for spelling
THANKS for your time folks.
Mickey71
As society, we hold athletic greats to a higher standard.
Be humble, a family man, hustle, good teammate, and sport a smile, everyone loves you even in a slump.
Be an a-hole, tell the media to effoff, act like your owed something, and such; the fans will enjoy watching you fail.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just is what it is.
that means he not only got caught lying but he also tried to get someone to LIE for him! the obstruction is worse than the perjury....
the worst part is that he was GRANTED IMMUNITY TO TELL THE TRUTH AND HE STILL LIED! VERY BIG MISTAKE!
canseco and giambi admitted they did the stuff, but as bondz STILL denies it..THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!
ill second that emotion
<< <i>everyone on those lists has been suspended for STEROIDS? I thought otherwise. For example, wasn't Cameron suspended for other drugs? Too early in the A.M. to research it myself, but I sure didn't think he got nailed for steroids. >>
Cameron didn't get nailed for steroids, he got nailed for a supplement, not steroids. Hence the 25 game suspension vice 50.
<< <i>Bonds is an embarrasment to the sport, to his family, to his profession. He is a liar, a criminal and cries Racism! at every opportunity. I have no sympathy for him or any other cheater in sports. >>
all this is true, but I think that JackWESQ's point is not about his purgery, but that there are LOTS of other similarly guilty players across the MLB, so why is there not the same FAN Hatred of them, like there is against Bonds? He is right. Fans could have cared less when Palmerio got busted outright doing steriods by failing a drug test. Yet there is a whole industry set up around hating Barry and no one else seems to feel it at all
<< <i>so why is there not the same FAN Hatred of them, like there is against Bonds? >>
Because Bonds has always been a surly arrogant mean spirited jerk. If you're going to be that, and then take on the most prestigious record in MLB all the while juicing yourself up and lieing about it, your're going to take top prize in the "Most Wanted" list of sports.
Because Bonds has always been a surly arrogant mean spirited jerk. If you're going to be that, and then take on the most prestigious record in MLB all the while juicing yourself up and lieing about it, your're going to take top prize in the "Most Wanted" list of sports. >>
Exactly!