Accelerated Natural Toning - ANT

hubird

I really don't care much for toned coins though I do own a few. I must admit that I rather enjoy the sparring between the AT/NT camps. It will never end. That said, let me add a little fuel to the fire, stir the pot you know.

Has anyone ever discussed the impact of airborne contaminants (i.e. cigarette smoke, kitchen smoke, air sprays, etc.) on our coins as that impact might occur when the contaminants flow from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure, the natural tendency? In this case I consider low pressure areas to be ones inside perforated cellophane coin wrappers, some types of albums, some coin boxes, etc. These, of course, are places most people think their coins are protected.

Let's hear other's ideas. I would appreciate help thinking this idea through. Hey, it's early and I'm not doing much yet, ...still waking up in fact...

ModernDollarNut

I gather you're premise is that atmospheric changes in pressure will force a kind of "breathing" in all but hermetically sealed containers as aif moves in and out as a function of atmospheric pressure?

And that with air movment will come suspended or gaseous contaminants and humidity?

And certainly only some sort of air-tight seal would preclude this slow-motion "breathing"?

Makes sense to me. Next question: to what extent are all the major TPG's holders hermetically sealed? I submerged a couple of PCGS holders in a foot of cold water (which should have caused a drop in internal pressure and sucking in of water as that pull was augmented by the push of a foot of water pressure if they were not sealed) and all stayed internally dry.

Still, if I had any worthy coins in long-term storage, I would use high-quality food-storage vacuum bags on a dry day to give them some extra protection. Rob

hubird

Not just "atmospheric changes in pressure" per se. Higher pressure in relation to that in the holder can be caused by any air movement, air conditioning, fans, etc.

edit: yeah, slabs sealed?! We all know slabs aren't air-tight, don't we? I hadn't really addressed slabs in the OP.

ricko

Good questions ... The slabs are NOT hermetically sealed, however neither do they contain gaps that allow easy access of water etc. There are 'doctors' that have 'toned' coins in slabs. The first post by hubird has merit - airborne contaminants definitely contribute to toning. However, natural pressure changes (i.e. barometric) do not cause significant 'bellows' effects on normal storage containers since for the most part they are fairly gradual. On the other hand, if a container is NOT hermetically sealed, contaminants will ingress over long periods of time ... and of course, there are surface contaminants (however slight) already on any coin that has been exposed (which is all of them) to the natural atmosphere. Cheers, RickO

dorkkarl

natural toning occurs on coins when the coins are used for their intended purpose.

all other toning is artificial.

end of discussion!

K S

7Jaguars

Well, this topic is huge but I don't think AT difference is always clear; just saying only wear accumulated through spending coins is NT would be a bit of a strong statement. I do not know if low pressure is generated by a coin just being in a holder. This would not be tested in any case by submergence in water as their are other interface issues with atmospheric air and water, etc.

Many proof sets that were in satin type lined holders from the 19th C. have very nice toning on the silver and copper that is AT but very pleasant in appearance and old. I confess to "aging" a few just slightly that had been unfortunately dipped by interlopers. There are of course those that add tone with cigarette smoke, old type sulfur containing holders, albums, "thumbing", etc.

BobaFett72

"natural toning occurs on coins when the coins are used for their intended purpose"

yeah. right

hubird

dorkkarl, a coin can tone just sitting around, can't it? It doesn't have to be used, per se, does it? That's one of the inherent/intrinsic qualities or attributes of the metal (silver) and its interaction with the atmosphere. Isn't it?

The accelerated natural toning I'm wondering about is due to extraneous vapors in the atmosphere that most folks are not aware of in their homes. In the home versus in the open outdoors, that is.

The area of low pressure in the coin container or holder is unintentionally created by the use of fans and such in the home which create areas of high pressure with respect to the air pressure the coin is in. I guess what I'm imagining happening is occuring within the microclimate immediately around the coin, be it in an album slot, a slab, a perforated cellophane wrapper, or whatever.

...must keep thinking...

DJCoinz

<< <i>natural toning occurs on coins when the coins are used for their intended purpose.

all other toning is artificial.

end of discussion!

K S >>

Edscoin

All toning is accelerated toning. Just some is more accelerated than others.

Bochiman

Hubird,

Forgive dorkkarl. He doesn't like slabs and there isn't much he appears to like. He seems anti-everything

Rick is right...slabs are not hermetically sealed and people have been known to tone coins while in slabs (gasses). Manofcoins comes to mind....he was shown to have purchased a coin on ebay and then offer same for sale but the coin was dramatically toned in a very short time gap. Braddick, I believe, was the one who brought that to light on the forum last year.

The slabs are sealed, enough, that unless you concentrate the airbourne contaminants, they are unlikely to greatly contribute to any toning.

Cam40

another revelation:
coin collectors cause toning