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It's Never Too Early To Talk About MLB HOF Balloting
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I think the 2008 MLB Hall of Fame ballot will be made public the last week of November. Here's a list of the returning candidates and their percentages from last year:
* Harold Baines - 5.3%
* Bert Blyleven - 47.7%
* Dave Concepción - 13.6 %
* Andre Dawson - 56.7%
* Rich "Goose" Gossage - 71.2%
* Tommy John - 22.9%
* Don Mattingly - 9.9% - OUCH! Thread on Mattingly & HOF: Mattingly HOF Thread
* Mark McGwire - 23.5%
* Jack Morris - 37.1%
* Dale Murphy - 9.2%
* Dave Parker - 11.4%
* Jim Rice - 63.5%
* Lee Smith - 39.8%
* Alan Trammell - 13.4%
And the newly-eligible candidates:
Luis Alicea, Brady Anderson, Alex Arias, Rod Beck, Andy Benes, Mike Benjamin, Dennis Cook, Delino DeShields, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Darrin Fletcher, Travis Fryman, Rich Garcés, Chris Haney, Dave Hollins, Bobby J. Jones, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Tom Lampkin, Darren Lewis, Mike Magnante, Dave Mlicki, Mike Morgan, Robb Nen, Hipólito Pichardo, Tim Raines, Armando Reynoso, Henry Rodríguez, Lee Stevens, Todd Stottlemyre, Greg Swindell, Mike Trombley, John Valentin, Randy Velarde, Ed Vosberg, and Mark Wohlers.
Is it me, or can you see NONE of these players being elected. Of the carry overs, I guess Gossage could get in. He received 71.2% last year. And the new players, Raines should get in, but won't come close.
So if no one gets elected, does that mean there is no 2008 Hall of Fame weekend?
/s/ JackWESQ
* Harold Baines - 5.3%
* Bert Blyleven - 47.7%
* Dave Concepción - 13.6 %
* Andre Dawson - 56.7%
* Rich "Goose" Gossage - 71.2%
* Tommy John - 22.9%
* Don Mattingly - 9.9% - OUCH! Thread on Mattingly & HOF: Mattingly HOF Thread
* Mark McGwire - 23.5%
* Jack Morris - 37.1%
* Dale Murphy - 9.2%
* Dave Parker - 11.4%
* Jim Rice - 63.5%
* Lee Smith - 39.8%
* Alan Trammell - 13.4%
And the newly-eligible candidates:
Luis Alicea, Brady Anderson, Alex Arias, Rod Beck, Andy Benes, Mike Benjamin, Dennis Cook, Delino DeShields, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Darrin Fletcher, Travis Fryman, Rich Garcés, Chris Haney, Dave Hollins, Bobby J. Jones, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Tom Lampkin, Darren Lewis, Mike Magnante, Dave Mlicki, Mike Morgan, Robb Nen, Hipólito Pichardo, Tim Raines, Armando Reynoso, Henry Rodríguez, Lee Stevens, Todd Stottlemyre, Greg Swindell, Mike Trombley, John Valentin, Randy Velarde, Ed Vosberg, and Mark Wohlers.
Is it me, or can you see NONE of these players being elected. Of the carry overs, I guess Gossage could get in. He received 71.2% last year. And the new players, Raines should get in, but won't come close.
So if no one gets elected, does that mean there is no 2008 Hall of Fame weekend?
/s/ JackWESQ
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Comments
<< <i>Maybe due to who's eligible, they will let McGwire in. >>
I hope so, but I think he waits 2-4 years, with his % increasing each year. Im guessing he hits high 40's/ low 50's this year
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Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
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Henderson, Tim Raines and Kenny Lofton are all the same type of players with some variation between them. Players like Delino Deshields, Marquis Grissom and Brady Anderson showed some promise for awhile but fizzled away too quickly.
It all depends on how the voters view the stats. Tim Raines can be shown to be hall worthy depending on what stats you use. At the very least, he was an excellent first rate player that any team could use.
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<< <i>Lets face it guys, There shouldn't even be a list for this year. Nobody is even worthy of a 50% vote, let alone 75%. >>
I think some of these guys mentioned belong in the HOF, but there are no obvious "locks" for the HOF this year - they're all invite debate.
Saying that no none deserves 50% is just a tad ignorant of the talent and worth of a lot of people on that list.
Steve
McGwire not making it simply shows how the sports writers are complete idiots
and maybe rice
but with these voters who knows
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looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
<< <i>what if mcgwire % goes down? would that signal he has no shot? >>
If it goes down, his chances of ever getting in also go waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. good question.
The new Hall of Fame ballots have been sent to the voters, and soon we're going to start seeing a lot of arguments for and against. I've made my feelings pretty clear over the years: if I were enfranchised, I would vote for Tim Raines, Bert Blyleven, Goose Gossage and Alan Trammell. Jim Rice is borderline; Jack Morris is not.
More on them later, I'm sure (if you just can't wait, I agree with this guy about Rice and this one about Morris). Right now, though, I do want to mention one more thing ...
Raines was a great player. He's not going to be elected, mostly because he was overshadowed by Rickey Henderson and because one of his two key skills -- getting on base and scoring runs -- is undervalued by Hall of Fame voters. Frankly, the people who think Raines belongs in the Hall of Fame are the same people who think David Wright probably got jobbed in the NL MVP voting this past season. And most of us don't get to vote for either honor, which is why Wright finished fourth and Raines won't be listed on more than 35 percent of the Hall of Fame ballots.
There's nothing I can do about that, any more than I've been able to convince the voters, for lo these many years, that they're wrong about Blyleven. But if any voter is reading this, I would like to offer this ... It's going to be mentioned, in one place or another, that Raines had a drug problem early in his career, and I suspect that a few voters, whether they'll admit it publicly or not, will hold his cocaine addiction against him. He has admitted, among other things, sliding headfirst into bases to avoid breaking the vials of cocaine stored in his uniform pants pocket.
Got it. Not a pretty image. That would have been in 1981 or thereabouts. In 1982 Raines checked into rehab, and as far as we know he's led an exemplary life since. But forget about the 25 years since 1982. Let's return instead to the early 1980s, when a lot of baseball players were hooked on the white stuff. One of them was Paul Molitor, who's been up-front about his involvement in that scene, and his addiction.
Four years ago, when Molitor was first eligible for election, he was listed on 85 percent of the ballots cast and went straight into the Hall of Fame, no questions asked and cocaine not mentioned at all.
I happen to believe that Raines was almost exactly as valuable, over the course of his career, as Molitor, and I've got the numbers on my side. But forget about that. Today all I'm asking of the voters is that if they didn't hold illicit drug addiction against Molitor, they don't hold it against Raines. We can argue about the merits of his case. But let's at least stick to those.
<< <i>I happen to believe that Raines was almost exactly as valuable, over the course of his career, as Molitor, ... >>
He's right about that; Raines was better than Molitor, but just by a little bit.
Right now, Ron Santo is the best player to be passed over by the HOF voters and he may always be. If he ever does get in Raines will take over that spot. I agree with the writer that Raines is unlikely to get the suport of much more than a third of the voters; I also strongly believe that anyone who would vote for Jim Rice (or, lol, Jack Morris) before Tim Raines should never again be allowed to vote (or write about baseball). I think there is a critical mass of writers who take some sort of perverse pride in their complete ignorance of any and all useful statistics; before this "he had lots of RBI, he had lots of wins, he must be good" crowd dies off they may do a lot more damage. That is, if Bruce Sutter's induction has not already rendered the Hall beyond repair.
Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven both belong in the HOF, the numbers back up Raines as well (compared to a lot of folks already in the hOF)
<< <i>Yes, only you and Skinpinch/Hoopster should be allowed to vote for the HOF because everyone else in America is ignorant. >>
I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly, but thank you. And the HOF thanks you.
{Wait, that was sarcasm, wasn't it? Oh, you sly dog! You got me good.}
<< <i>No offense taken. I don't have a strong opinion either way on Santo or Blyleven being in the Hall; I just grow weary of other people accusing the rest of us of being ignorant if we choose to value different aspects of the game. >>
While dallas does get off looking at stats, he and skin's demeanor are completely and totally different.
If dallas called someone ignorant in the past, it was either said in jest to a fellow poster or a generic beyatch slap to HOF voters.
/ $0.02
<< <i>Lets face it guys, There shouldn't even be a list for this year. Nobody is even worthy of a 50% vote, let alone 75%. >>
Are you serious?? I know there's no sure fire lock but there are definitely some guys that merit SERIOUS consideration.
I think Gossage and Rice have the best chance. I still don't understand why Blyleven is not in. His stats are very worthy.
Active Shutout Leaders; Age in Parentheses. Downright scary, given the record is 110. Of course, to record a shutout, you have to pitch a complete game and that doesn't happen anymore.
1. Roger Clemens (44) 46
2. Randy Johnson* (43) 37
3. Greg Maddux (41) 35
4. Tom Glavine* (41) 25
5. Mike Mussina (38) 23
6. Curt Schilling (40) 20
7. Pedro Martinez (35) 17
8. John Smoltz (40) 16
9. Chris Carpenter (32) 12
David Wells* (44) 12
11. Tim Hudson (31) 10
Mark Mulder* (29) 10
13. A.J. Burnett (30) 9
Roy Halladay (30) 9
Jamie Moyer* (44) 9
Kenny Rogers* (42) 9
Jason Schmidt (34) 9
Aaron Sele (37) 9
19. Bartolo Colon (34) 8
Matt Morris (32) 8
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>A quick check at baseball-reference demonstrates that Blyleven finished in the Cy Young voting four (4) times in 22 years, two thirds, a fourth and a seventh... >>
A just-as-quick check of baseball-reference (if you know where to look) demonstrates that Blyleven DESERVED the Cy Young Award in 1973 and should have been in the top 5 half a dozen more times. The list of pitchers with Cy Young Awards who were nowhere near the best (or among the 10 best) pitchers when they won is legion - Jim Perry, Mike McCormick and Lamarr Hoyt come quickly to mind. What those pitchers had in common was not pitching greatness but that they led the leaue in wins; that was by far the single best predictor of the Cy Young winner for decades, and its relation to being the best pitcher is imaginary. Blyleven never led the league in wins; that is why he never won a Cy Young Award and it is a very poor reason for keeping him out of the HOF.
Quick Quiz: who was better in the postseason, Blyleven or Jack Morris?
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