Who Here Has Intentionally Omitted a Qualifier From Their Auction Title ...
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
One of my biggest pet peeves is when I click on what appears to be a great card only to see that the card has a qualifier, which usually, for me, "kills" the card. So I wonder. Who here has ever listed a card for auction and intentionally elected not to include the qualifier on the auction title? And for those who did, why? Well, I guess the reason why is fairly obvious ... to attract interet to the card that may otherwise not attract interest. But are there any other reasons? For those who have, do you think it is devious on your part? Or do you think, heck, once they see the card and the description, they know that they are bidding on a card with ... whatever ... qualifier.
/s/ JackWESQ
/s/ JackWESQ
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Comments
randy
Snorto~
<< <i>I used to (from the title only, not the description), until I started reading these boards. I now agree it is stupid, because all you will get is a look, not a bid. >>
Nick, I agree with that statement, but I think you have to look at the bigger picture - you're only focusing on the card in the listing. If I list a card that is an 9 O/C, but don't list the qualifier in the title, the person may or may not bid on that card depending on whether or not a qualifier bothers them, but what if they click my other items and see something that they do like and bid on? They may not have ever seen that other item had they not looked at the card with the qualifier. That's just my opinion.
<< <i>never >>
Ditto. And people who do so rarely get my bid—only if I REALLY want it, and after very carefully reading every other thing they do or don't say.
Ditto.
A couple in my personal collection, but they aren't going anywhere anytime shortly.
And to those sellers that still do not list qualifiers in the title box, all I can say is you will lose me as a future customer if you don't put the qualifier in the title. I won't even bother to click on your other listings, not even on cards that don't have qualifiers. Because frankly you lied about it on the first item, why should I waste my time trying to find a card without a qualifier from your other listings.
These type of sellers are just idiots wasting my time.
It's unethical in my mind to not fully disclose ANY qualifier in the title box.
I've added sellers who do this to my blocked bidder list. I don't want to do business with shady sellers. I could care less if they have a lot of money to spend either.
<< <i>And to those sellers that still do not list qualifiers in the title box, all I can say is you will lose me as a future customer if you don't put the qualifier in the title. I won't even bother to click on your other listings, not even on cards that don't have qualifiers. Because frankly you lied about it on the first item, why should I waste my time trying to find a card without a qualifier from your other listings.
These type of sellers are just idiots wasting my time.
It's unethical in my mind to not fully disclose ANY qualifier in the title box.
I've added sellers who do this to my blocked bidder list. I don't want to do business with shady sellers. I could care less if they have a lot of money to spend either. >>
I agree with you 100%. They are maliciously attempting to deceive the public. Feel the same way about people who defend this practice as well.
As stevek would say:
WEASELS!
What about those who say they won’t bid on cards with qualifiers? Using the example above, if I requested no qualifiers on my submission form and then sold the card, would you bid on it then? Isn’t this what we talk about when we way buy the card and not the holder? I have seen several cards that had qualifiers that really didn’t deserve it and likewise, I have seen cards that should have had qualifiers, but didn’t. I am not wanting to argue with anybody, just wanting to understand the difference.
<< <i>Guys, help me to understand this clearly. What is the difference between omitting the qualifier from the title of a listing or sending that same card in to be graded and requesting "no qualifiers" on the submission form and then selling it? It’s the same card, right?
What about those who say they won’t bid on cards with qualifiers? Using the example above, if I requested no qualifiers on my submission form and then sold the card, would you bid on it then? Isn’t this what we talk about when we way buy the card and not the holder? I have seen several cards that had qualifiers that really didn’t deserve it and likewise, I have seen cards that should have had qualifiers, but didn’t. I am not wanting to argue with anybody, just wanting to understand the difference. >>
Here's your complimentary stick for stirring your 1,000,000th pot! Congratulations!!!
<< <i>I am asking a question not stirring the pot. I think you know what you can do with that stick!
No, why don't you tell me?
Go peddle your flesh somewhere else.
We're talking about "deceptive" sellers, not collectors submitting cards and requesting an "NQ" grade. Sellers like this are wasting my time and hiding the true grade of their item. There is a big difference between the 2 - one is a seller, one is a collector seeking the highest grade without a qualifier. Pretty simple.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
But, to be honest, when I go to a sale and there's a qualifier, not mentioned in the title - I leave and won't look at anything else the seller has.
That's my take.
mike
Thanks for the reply, but I think you mis-understood the question - or perhaps I mis-understood your answer. Let's say I have a 1972 Topps Nolan Ryan card and I send it in to PSA to be graded and the card comes back a 9 O/C. Then I decide to sell that card on eBay but do not list the qualifier in the title of the auction - only in the description and scan. People are saying that is being deceptive and they would not bid on it. I am not arguing whether it is deceptive or not - please continure to read.
Now, on the other hand, I submit that SAME card to PSA to be graded, but write "no qualifiers" on the submission form. I receive the card back without a qualifier and decide to sell that card on eBay. So, it's the SAME card, just the first example has a qualifier and the second one doesn't. The question that I am asking is "What is the difference in selling the two?"
And if they are the SAME card and one has a qualifier and the the other one doesn't, would you bid on the card w/o the qualifier?
I am not looking to argue or debate anybody on this, just looking for opinions. Thanks!
<< <i>I am not looking to argue or debate anybody on this, just looking for opinions. Thanks! >>
vtg
It's apples and oranges - I don't get it?
Of course it's the SAME card - it's the title that's potentially gonna be different.
If you send a 9OC to PSA and ask for NQ - and the centering is 90/10 - the best grade you're gonna get is PSA 3.
So, in this instance the card is gonna be listed as PSA 3 or in the first scenario either 9OC or an annoying PSA 9.
mike
edit: I don't think it's totally deceptive or immoral to list without qualifier - as long as it's in the description and prominently noticeable in the scan - it's just annoying.
The difference in selling the two is the card's tag line as Stone says. In one example (PSA NQ), the seller is disclosing all the facts in the tag line. In the other, the seller is not. Same card, different level of disclosure in the listing. It makes a difference because the buyer's objective for building a set or acquiring cards at a certain minimum grade usually determines which listings he wants to review. For example, at times, for certain sets, you may see 20 or 30 listings. If you have a weighted gpa goal of 9, let's say, and click on all the 9s to add to your watches only to find every one of them is a 9OC, you've just wasted 5 or 10 minutes of your time. I personally don't like wasting time.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
for cryin' out loud, if you send in a Nolan Ryan and don't stipulate "NO Qualifiers" and it come back PSA 9o/c
if you send the same card in WITH the stipulation above, it will come back a 7 (They drop it two grades for qualifiers).
Case closed on that part.
They are trying to say if you don't put in your auction description, you are "SPAMMING" people by
not being honest about the listing title....THAT IS EBAY RULES>.....read em!
Whew!
<< <i>vintagetoppsguy....
for cryin' out loud, if you send in a Nolan Ryan and don't stipulate "NO Qualifiers" and it come back PSA 9o/c
if you send the same card in WITH the stipulation above, it will come back a 7 (They drop it two grades for qualifiers).
Case closed on that part.
They are trying to say if you don't put in your auction description, you are "SPAMMING" people by
not being honest about the listing title....THAT IS EBAY RULES>.....read em!
Whew! ! >>
Thank you for the answer. The first part of your answer is absolutely correct, it would drop the grade to a PSA 7, not a PSA 3 as suggested before.
So, let's say you were looking for this particular card for your personal collection (set registry aside), would you not bid on it just because of the qualifier (see below)? There was a post earlier where another member bid on a Hank Aaron card, just from reading the title and not the description or even looking at the picture. I'm certainly not knocking him for it because I have done the same thing. I am just trying to find out if people are buying the card or the holder - but from the posts I think that is pretty clear.
<< <i>They are trying to say if you don't put in your auction description, you are "SPAMMING" people by
not being honest about the listing title....THAT IS EBAY RULES>.....read em! >>
On a side note, that is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Ebay does NOT require that and it is no where in their rules.
<< <i>Thank you for the answer. The first part of your answer is absolutely correct, it would drop the grade to a PSA 7, not a PSA 3 as suggested before. >>
vtg
I'm sorry but I'm very sure you're wrong about that.
The drop in 2 grades for a "qualifier" is a Registry rule and has nothing to do with grading standards by PSA - as such.
Here's the criteria for a 7 on the PSA web:
NM 7: Near Mint.
A PSA NM 7 is a card with just a slight surface wear visible upon close inspection. There may be slight fraying on some corners. Picture focus may be slightly out-of-register. A minor printing blemish is acceptable. Slight wax staining is acceptable on the back of the card only. Most of the original gloss is retained. Centering must be approximately 70/30 to 75/25 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.
So, if you submit a card that would - otherwise - get a 9 and the centering is 80/20 e.g. - it would NOT qualify for a 7 if one asked for NQ.
In this case, the best the card would get, is a PSA 6.
EX-MT 6: Excellent-Mint:
Centering must be 80/20 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.
So, IMO, you're whole argument or defense is moot.
mike
same edit: I don't think it's totally deceptive or immoral to list without qualifier - as long as it's in the description and prominently noticeable in the scan - it's just annoying.
Also - that's a really nice Ryan and would fall - coincidentally - in the PSA 7 range in centering IMO.
Thanks for the clarification. I love your sig line! Was that really said?
<< <i>Mike,
Thanks for the clarification. I love your sig line! Was that really said? >>
It sure was.
No one could make up something like that!
Truth is stranger than fiction! I believe I heard it on the Registry Forum.
mike
People can buy cards with or without qualifiers. That's up to the buyer. I agree, buy the card and not the holder. Some 8 o/c's look just fine for example. I personally don't collect cards with Q's, but I do own a Bart Starr 9 o/c card that's centered about 70/30 t-b. It looks fine in the holder. Sure it might cross to an straight PSA 8 holder, but I could care less about crossing it over.
The difference in not listing the qualifier in the title has to do with being honest about what you're actually selling. If you're the seller of a PSA 9 o/c card, why not put that in the title? There's only one reason not to: deception. They're are trying to get potential buyers to click on their item, and maybe place a bid on it. Sometimes to bid in error. But to get them to try to do this, the seller wasn't honest about what they are selling, and therefore are kind of crooked in many buyers' eyes.
If I click on a PSA 9 auction, I'm expecting to find a PSA 9 NQ card. Not an 9 o/c. So this seller just wasted my time with their deceptive listing title. So I wouldn't buy from this seller. Not that 9 o/c card nor any other card they are offering to sell. It's the principle of the thing.
To me a seller that engages in this type of sales deception is just shady and there's more potential for them trying to screw with the buyer in some other way too. Afterall, they've already lied about the item they are selling in the title. So they have questionable ethics. They probably play feedback hostage as well. They might even mail you a completely different card than the one shown in the auction. Anything can happen.
I avoid sellers like this to avoid buying conflicts. It can just lead to negative FB exchanges.
Rich
Right from ebay's listings and rules policy....so like I said....read em!
" Sellers are NOT permitted to create titles for their listings that do not accurately describe the item for sale.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, inluding:
*Listing cancellation
*limits on account priviledges
*Account suspension
*Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
*Loss of PowerSeller status "
So sure, my wording was not exactly right, but YES--It does violate eBay policy.
Now do YOU understand? LITERALLY, they are saying you can't mislead people in your listing title.
Which means you must put what it is you are selling, not OMITTING vital information like an O/C qualifier!
<< <i>Sellers are NOT permitted to create titles for their listings that do not accurately describe the item for sale >>
You are interpreting that wrong. Ebay has NEVER pulled a listing because the seller failed to put a qualifier in the title. That's like saying that you have to have the card number or team name in the title. You just can’t use key words to spam the title - i.e. PSA, GAI, BGS in the same title. If I want to list the title as “Baseball Card” and that's it, then that is perfectly acceptable to eBay. It might not get very many views or bids, but it does not violate eBay’s policy.
The whole thing about leaving out the qualifier:
If this is the only bad thing you see or experience in your life - consider yourself blessed.
mike