gold futures top $900
MoneyLA
Posts: 1,825 ✭
THIS WAS MY ORIGINAL POST. IT IS IN ERROR. UPDATED WITH CORRECT FIGURES APPEAR ON PAGE THREE.
gold "futures" contracts for delivery in June 2008 have topped $900 an ounce...
yes, we know the futures market is different from spot prices, but don't you think this is significant, or not?
in the futures market there is a buyer for every seller... which means somebody is going to be right, while somebody is going to be wrong.
thoughts? Alan Mendelson
BestDealsTVshow.com
gold "futures" contracts for delivery in June 2008 have topped $900 an ounce...
yes, we know the futures market is different from spot prices, but don't you think this is significant, or not?
in the futures market there is a buyer for every seller... which means somebody is going to be right, while somebody is going to be wrong.
thoughts? Alan Mendelson
BestDealsTVshow.com
0
Comments
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
That's easy First Spouse = POG
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
That's easy First Spouse = POG >>
Another insightfull genius
Your next insightful post about First Spouse:
All the MELTING of First Spouse coins for bullion content will bring upon higher prices for existing pieces......
Prediction......
Dolly Madison will be a Flop.......that's with a capital F.
<< <i>FLBuff -
Your next insightful post about First Spouse:
All the MELTING of First Spouse coins for bullion content will bring upon higher prices for existing pieces......
Prediction......
Dolly Madison will be a Flop.......that's with a capital F. >>
I'm glad to hear you think so since the only things that have flopped are your predictions oh wise one
I would rather wait untill the Mint announces the new price, maximum mintage and order limits before I make a prediction on the Dolley Madison Spouse.
NSDR - Life Member
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roadrunner
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Don't they go hand in hand?
Ren
They are formula driven off of current pricing.
If there were a June 2009 market it's probablt over $1000
It's the current market that counts!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
You are the only one "pumping" Haag's - where the market has deteriorated due to lack of interest and collector base that was never there.....
You have a lack of understanding of the market and are only a "mouthpiece" on the forum pumping certain issues without backing your words with fact.......
Take some time out and educate yourself before mixing it up with the big boys.
<< <i>FLBUFF-
You are the only one "pumping" Haag's - where the market has deteriorated due to lack of interest and collector base that was never there.....
You have a lack of understanding of the market and are only a "mouthpiece" on the forum pumping certain issues without backing your words with fact.......
Take some time out and educate yourself before mixing it up with the big boys. >>
On the contary I am not pumping anything, only problem is the facts are otherwise and the only misinformation is yours. The First Spouse coins since day one continue to sell at a premium in the aftermarket. IMO, this obviously indicates a collector base at the current minatge levels. Besides just stating your expertise and claiming they are a flop and the market has deteriorated, do you have any facts
<< <i>
<< <i>FLBUFF-
You are the only one "pumping" Haag's - where the market has deteriorated due to lack of interest and collector base that was never there.....
You have a lack of understanding of the market and are only a "mouthpiece" on the forum pumping certain issues without backing your words with fact.......
Take some time out and educate yourself before mixing it up with the big boys. >>
On the contary I am not pumping anything, only problem is the facts are otherwise and the only misinformation is yours. The First Spouse coins since day one continue to sell at a premium in the aftermarket. IMO, this obviously indicates a collector base at the current minatge levels. Besides just stating your expertise and claiming they are a flop and the market has deteriorated, do you have any facts
Well best take a lesson from 79/80 there's a lot of gold that will simply be the spot price as gold rises, the more it rises the more coins that will fall into this area. If you have an MS65 or MS64 classic they'll go up but anything below MS63 will be spot. Will the old hags in MS/PF 70 be above spot? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it the 69's are common and spot IMO. I've seen a bunch of you guys studying these new Gold and Plat series since the 06's coin rush, you've done your research on those but I can tell you haven't seen a market like this. The good news is it's all good spot could very well be $1500 in the next 5 years so at least you flippers hoping for the big bucks may be able to get about double in the future for your coins IMO. Let's see a Classic Indian or an old hag, that's easy for me.
That is fact and is supported by the deterioration of the Spouse Gold market beginning in the late July-early August timeframe.
You have been given facts by myself, Ericj96, Coinhog, etc , etc, etc and have chosen to go on with your worthless rant about what a great opportunity these Haag's represent.
Give it up, we are tired of hearing about Haag's and we are tired of viewing those bullion disc's at the bottom of your posts.
You can only hope for gold move higher, and save your position from being sold at a loss to the initial mint offer price.
You are exactly on the money with lessons from 79/80.
I was working for a bullion dealer then, and even at a young age, was very surprised to see what hit the melting pot. The line was out the door and down the block, an assembly line testing gold purity, counting 90%, cracking out worthless stones, weighing, and paying the customer. I wish I could have bought many numismatically important items from the melting pot, but you couldn't afford to buy them all.
If gold moved to $1000+, I believe many of these high mintage, bullion related commems will hit the melting pot again.
<< <i>What this obviously represents, FLBUFF, is large holdings by flippers or hoarders, like yourself, who find that they have a hard time selling ANY real quantity of those Spouse Golds (not 1, but lets say 25) at a profit AFTER fees
That is fact and is supported by the deterioration of the Spouse Gold market beginning in the late July-early August timeframe.
You have been given facts by myself, Ericj96, Coinhog, etc , etc, etc and have chosen to go on with your worthless rant about what a great opportunity these Haag's represent.
Give it up, we are tired of hearing about Haag's and we are tired of viewing those bullion disc's at the bottom of your posts.
You can only hope for gold move higher, and save your position from being sold at a loss to the initial mint offer price. >>
More rant with no facts. If they have no collectable value, why would people pay a premium for them in the aftermarket if they were not collecting them? 7over8, do yourself a favor, stop trying to predict collactable worth of modern issues since you obviously don't know what you are talking about and have no facts that support your theories.
<< <i>You have been given facts by myself, Ericj96, Coinhog, etc , etc, etc and have chosen to go on with your worthless rant about what a great opportunity these Haag's represent.
Give it up, we are tired of hearing about Haag's and we are tired of viewing those bullion disc's at the bottom of your posts.
>>
Thanks for the placing me in good company 7over8!!!! You could also add Wondercoin to that list who has also come out publicly to predict no immediate future for the the old hags.
FLBUff continually compares these to modern commemorative gold issues. In my opinion, these are more comparable to the American Arts series that were released, what, in the early 90's. They sell for spot plus a little premium.
The market for commemoratives is completely different. Mainly because the gold commemoratives get released at a rate of maybe 1 per year on average. The mint is DUMPING 4 of these on the collector public each and every year for the next 10+ years. There aren't enough well heeled collectors to absorb this. They will continue to sell out for the short term by the flippers looking to make a buck. The golden rule is to follow the money. By the next two or three releases, the money will move on to something else as there will not be enough short term profit in the old hags. JMHO.
By the way, I think it is great that the Old Hags have a passionate follower in the form of FLBuff. Thats the beauty of this country. It is a capitalistic system where FLBuff can put his money wherever he wants and the freedom of speech allows him to plug whatever he wants. The pursuit of happiness. If the pursuit of old hags make FLBuff happy, I say good for him!!!! You go FLBuff!!!!!
<< <i>FLBUff continually compares these to modern commemorative gold issues. In my opinion, these are more comparable to the American Arts series that were released, what, in the early 90's. They sell for spot plus a little premium. >>
The American Arts 1 ounce gold medal series are not listed in the Red Book and are not even shown in the pop reports of NGC & PCGS. I don't see how that is a fair comparison since alot of people don't collect gold medals. The fact is, the First Spouse coins are listed as a commemoratives by both PCGS & NGC and the Proofs having a limited mintage at present of 20,000 per spouse makes the first three Proofs the lowest mintage gold Proof commemorative issues ever. All previous gold Proof gold commemoratives with a mintage close to 20,000 sell for a premium of close to double or more, unlike the higher mintage modern gold commemoratives issues which do trade for close to melt. I am awaiting to see what the Mint does with the maximum mintage of the Dolley Madison spouse issued next month since IMO, there is obviously more demand for the Proof spouses than the uncirculated option being historically collectors buy more Proofs than uncirculated issues of the same coin, usually by a 2:1 margin. The First Spouse series in that respect being unlike any previous other series from the Mint. I feel if the Mint decides to allow the Dolley Madison spouse to be an open mintage of 40,000 between Proof and Uncirculated, more Proof coins will be sold than the first three creating a key of the first three spouse Proof issues.
One thing is sure, the Spouse coins have all sold out and continue to sell for a premium in the aftermarket. More so in the case of the Martha Washington and Abigail Adams Proofs than the Jefferson's Liberty being more collectors were able to purchase directly from the Mint as a result of the one per household limit the Mint enforced. The premium the first two spouses have over the Jefferson's Liberty to me is also evidence collectors are buying the first two for their collections in the aftermarket since they were shut out by the surprise 3-hour, quickest sellout ever recorded by the Mint. Based on not knowing what the Mint will do at this time, IMO it is too early to decide what may happen.
However, the direction and velocity of these prices relative to spot prices have a very high correlation to inflation.
Since money is worth what people think it is the first place that inflation appears is in higher premiums in futures markets. It's really more a self fullfilling prophesy than a true causative factor.
<< <i>Where is that popcorn icon when I need it.... Cheers, RickO >>
Right here RickO...
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Hoard the keys.
Box of 20
have a bullion round that has intrinsic value. they will never take
a complete loss.
The fed is lowering rate next week and bush is going to bomb iran fairly soon, gold will be $1000 early next year.
<< <i>i am thankful that the people who bought first hags at least now have a bullion round that has intrinsic value. they will never take a complete loss. >>
You're all heart.
>>
Well best take a lesson from 79/80 there's a lot of gold that will simply be the spot price as gold rises, the more it rises the more coins that will fall into this area. If you have an MS65 or MS64 classic they'll go up but anything below MS63 will be spot. Will the old hags in MS/PF 70 be above spot? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it the 69's are common and spot IMO. I've seen a bunch of you guys studying these new Gold and Plat series since the 06's coin rush, you've done your research on those but I can tell you haven't seen a market like this. The good news is it's all good spot could very well be $1500 in the next 5 years so at least you flippers hoping for the big bucks may be able to get about double in the future for your coins IMO. Let's see a Classic Indian or an old hag, that's easy for me. >>
Somewhat agree with this statement. I think we're already seeing a contraction in the Saint Market MS63 and lower and Liberty market MS62 and lower, very little mark up over spot for coins unless it's a rare date. Maybe it's always been like this, I dunno. However, I doubt you'll ever see Indian gold, in MS63/62 trade for spot. If it ever does I'm backing up the truck. 95% of modern gold bullion will trade for spot regardless of grade, it already does. The 70 grade means nothing to a gold dealer, and shouldn't to collectors either.
But that is true of just about every coin or even medal with a high bullion content.
<< <i> 95% of modern gold bullion will trade for spot regardless of grade, it already does. The 70 grade means nothing to a gold dealer, and shouldn't to collectors either. >>
Maybe a NGC 70, given they grade more 70's than 69's in modern gold. Definetly not the case of a PCGS 70 where the ratio is closer to 20% and 70's trade at a much higher premium.
It’s funny how the collectors of ‘non-modern coins’ (old gold) think they are all high and mighty.
But I got some news,
It's no coincidence that the bull market in coins has coincided with the bull market in precious metals.
Some of you talk like if gold goes to $300 the spouse will be the only think that goes down, like all these other coins won’t.
The reason that old gold coin you have, is worth $300 more than you paid, is because gold is up $300. And if gold goes down so will it.
So you guys need to get down off your high horse, because if this deck of cards starts falling, nobody will be spared.
Oh, by the way, Dolly is scheduled for Nov. 15th. Woohoo, only three more weeks. It’s never ending….
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Here's your chance. Is this for both coins? Good buy if it is.
Gold and Proof for $700 BIN...that is the way I am reading the auction.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Here's your chance. Is this for both coins? Good buy if it is.
Gold and Proof for $700 BIN...that is the way I am reading the auction. >>
Nice Feedback I'm sure he will deliver an ounce of gold to you for $80 less than what it melts at
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Here's your chance. Is this for both coins? Good buy if it is.
Gold and Proof for $700 BIN...that is the way I am reading the auction. >>
Nice feedback[/L], I'm sure he will deliver an ounce of gold to you for $80 less than what it melts at
For sure...lol. I wouldn't touch that one for anything. Feedback sucks too.
June08 futures can easily be back down to $700 when June08 comes....Don't count your chickens too early
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
The market for commemoratives is completely different. Mainly because the gold commemoratives get released at a rate of maybe 1 per year on average. The mint is DUMPING 4 of these on the collector public each and every year for the next 10+ years. There aren't enough well heeled collectors to absorb this. They will continue to sell out for the short term by the flippers looking to make a buck. The golden rule is to follow the money. By the next two or three releases, the money will move on to something else as there will not be enough short term profit in the old hags. JMHO.
By the way, I think it is great that the Old Hags have a passionate follower in the form of FLBuff. Thats the beauty of this country. It is a capitalistic system where FLBuff can put his money wherever he wants and the freedom of speech allows him to plug whatever he wants. The pursuit of happiness. If the pursuit of old hags make FLBuff happy, I say good for him!!!! You go FLBuff!!!!!
The American Arts Medallions were issued from 1980 through 1984, and they were not coins. At that time, there were Kruggerands, Sovereigns, and Maples, in addition to bullion U.S. gold (now referred to as classic gold.) FLB's Spouse comparison to modern commemorative gold is closer than to the American Arts Medallions.
Yes, it is true that the Mint is pretty much dumping on collectors. Welcome to the party - it's not been any different since about 1965, when they started jacking up prices. The American Eagle program started in 1986 with the express intent of allowing U.S. citizens to own gold at lower premiums than before, and it has now degenerated to an extent. Hopefully, the premiums won't increase to the point where things were before, with gold buyers paying high premiums for common junk gold.
What intrigues me though, is that the Mint used to produce from the 10's of thousands, up into the millions of each denomination from say, the 1830s up through the 1930s - when the economy was a whole lot smaller than it is right now. The relative numbers of any modern precious metal coin (in terms of ounces distributed) in these times is certainly not a deluge when compared to 100 years ago.
The stock market and capital markets are so huge compared to what the Mint produces that it is very conceivable that any bullion coin will have great worth and great collectability as time moves along. Add to that mix the spectre of inflation and financial turmoil. We may not see the dust settle for some time.
It is true that bad money drives out good, i.e., you will be spending your Federal Reserve Notes, but you will seldom pull out your gold coins to sell unless something important is at hand. If you are a net seller of precious metals right now, you are making a mistake, probably a big one.
To answer the OP, the futures market prices merely reflect the carrying costs for the length of the contract, plus or minus what the arbitragers and trading specialists want out of the deal.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Here's your chance. Is this for both coins? Good buy if it is.
Gold and Proof for $700 BIN...that is the way I am reading the auction. >>
Ebay sucks sooo bad. 18 Neg. in one year, 5 in the past 6 months. And he's still an active user !!! Ebay wake up.
<< <i>I collect the haag's because I can. If they go up great if they go down not happy but that is the way it is.Now if we can pick winners all of the time we would not be so neg of the 415.00 spent on 1/2 oz of gold all in all it's gold.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
I was hearing around $ 850 per oz.
Will see...
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
just checked futures....
june 2008 805
june 2009 839
june 2010 893
I got the wrong info.
it appears the commodity markets are not that bullish.
cheers, Alan Mendelson
BestDealsTVshow.com
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm more interested in buying First Spouse™ futures
Here's your chance. Is this for both coins? Good buy if it is.
Gold and Proof for $700 BIN...that is the way I am reading the auction. >>
Ebay sucks sooo bad. 18 Neg. in one year, 5 in the past 6 months. And he's still an active user !!! Ebay wake up. >>
I hope you are not trying to say that is the market. The price a probable thief charges does not a market make.
<< <i>i am thankful that the people who bought first hags at least now
have a bullion round that has intrinsic value. they will never take
a complete loss. >>
Yes, I am perplexed at how negative some people are on these coins. They cost hardly more than the bullion coins and offer a potential for appreciation no more or less than most offered for sale. I think those hag bashers really are suffering from a deep seated fear of their grandmothers. I know that they could be scarey at times when we were growing up.
<< <i>THIS WAS MY ORIGINAL POST. IT IS IN ERROR. UPDATED WITH CORRECT FIGURES APPEAR ON PAGE THREE.
gold "futures" contracts for delivery in June 2008 have topped $900 an ounce...
yes, we know the futures market is different from spot prices, but don't you think this is significant, or not?
in the futures market there is a buyer for every seller... which means somebody is going to be right, while somebody is going to be wrong.
thoughts? Alan Mendelson
BestDealsTVshow.com >>
let apples be apples ..that June price reflects the carrying charges..the spot or nearby future is the current price
has always been the Liberty subset. Further the subset
values will be impacted by the price of gold and future
restrictions of ordering set by the Mint.
Camelot
<< <i>The only coins that have potential in the spouse series
has always been the Liberty subset. Further the subset
values will be impacted by the price of gold and future
restrictions of ordering set by the Mint. >>
If that is the case, why are the Martha Wasington and Abigail Adams Proofs selling for more than the Jefferson's Liberty Proof?
I am with you on this, I like the series and you made a great call on GW first day coin cover, bought 600 and sold little over 500 so far at $30-$39, more than doubled in just few month, all of my 17 FS coins are practically FREE
<< <i>Martha, Abby, Dolly = P.O.S. >>
P.O.S.=Profit On Sale. At least that is how it has been for me. Oh, I also kept some.