one ugly looking 10--can i get a pixel count from the congregation?

theczar · October 18, 2007 11:07AM

i believe in the 11th commandment--never slam someone elses psa graded card or what they choose to collect.

so forgive for what i am about to say. i am huge 1966 collector but even i would not go after this one.

i am no pixel expert but this one seems to test the 60/40 rule for a 10 and with a diamond cut to boot.

the killer

gumbyfan · October 18, 2007 11:10AM

Do those edges on the holder look frosty, or is that a product of the scan?

lawnmowerman · October 18, 2007 11:12AM

The grader must have been late for lunch

vintagetoppsguy · October 18, 2007 11:14AM

I think that grader drank his lunch!

SportsItUpCards · October 18, 2007 11:18AM

How is this possible? What does PSA have to say about this? I mean, if that was my card that came back a 10 then sure I would be happy LOL but its not so want to know how this can be?

yankeeno7 · October 18, 2007 11:20AM

There is just NO WAY that cant have somehow been a cracked case and replaced card! WIGWAG cards still around?

jeff8877 · October 18, 2007 11:20AM

I come up with 71/29 on the left to right centering...unbelievable grade.

Jeff

cravetopps · October 18, 2007 11:28AM

left right centering makes it an 8 at best or 9OC. But the card doesn't even look mint anyway. I agree that the card has been replaced. I don't see how you could make a mistake like this.

JeremyDie1 · October 18, 2007 11:29AM

Not even close to a 10. I say 8 OC. At best 9 OC.

perkdog · October 18, 2007 11:30AM

Ridiculas

stown · October 18, 2007 11:39AM

Wow.

Uh, must be an optical illusion or something.

Nothing to see here.. Move along, move along..

ldferg · October 18, 2007 11:48AM

is this for real?

lawnmowerman · October 18, 2007 11:50AM

<< is this for real? >>

I really cant see it but you never know?

It could have been sub'd by 4sc?

ldferg · October 18, 2007 11:52AM

lmm,
i would tend to agree.

what is the psa buyback process? you buy it, send it to them, if the grade is incorrect, they buy it back from you? what do they do with the card and pop report? how many of you would've even submitted that period?

ArnyVee · October 18, 2007 11:56AM

You have to be kidding me. I wouldn't even chance at sending that in for fear of getting a 7...unbelievable.

PSA, please look at this one and revoke the license/certification/etc of the person that graded that one. Very dissapointing.

lawnmowerman · October 18, 2007 11:58AM

<< lmm,
i would tend to agree.

what is the psa buyback process? you buy it, send it to them, if the grade is incorrect, they buy it back from you? what do they do with the card and pop report? how many of you would've even submitted that period? >>

I sent a damged card back to them once. They slapped the correct grade on it and sent it back to me with 30.00 worth of vouchers. Im sure they would have sent a check but I wanted the vouchers.

The card was a 10 of some obscure rb that played for Dallas. Emmitt something if I remember correctly? Its now an 8

CDsNuts · October 18, 2007 11:58AM

Card looks perfect in every way.

yankeeno7 · October 18, 2007 12:02PM

maybe graded by someone who knew they were getting fired the next day. LOL

grote15 · October 18, 2007 12:02PM

Awful. This had to be a mix-up with another card, right??

Edit: I dare say even PRO would have graded this card a 9!

ldferg · October 18, 2007 12:04PM

someone mentioned wiwag. wasn't wiwag with the older flips?

SportsItUpCards · October 18, 2007 12:13PM

<< Awful. This had to be a mix-up with another card, right??

Edit: I dare say even PRO would have graded this card a 9! >>

HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!

The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10?

TheMcgwireMuseum · October 18, 2007 12:17PM

<< HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!

The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>

That makes no sense.

lawnmowerman · October 18, 2007 12:20PM

<< 

<< HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!

The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>

That makes no sense. >>

I agree.

I'm sure psa graders are all taught the bgs grading requirements.

SportsItUpCards · October 18, 2007 12:25PM

<< 

<< 

<< HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!

The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>

That makes no sense. >>

I agree.

I'm sure psa graders are all taught the bgs grading requirements. >>

I,m sure their not tought the bgs grading requirements but i'm sure they see when a card is a pristine quality and since they don't use a pristine grading system they gave it a 10 based on the Surface, Corners and Edges? Sure the Centering was way off but maybe since the other categories were better than their usual Gem 10 then they went ahead and gave it a 10? I'm sure you know what i'm talking about.

TheMcgwireMuseum · October 18, 2007 12:28PM

<< I,m sure their not tought the bgs grading requirements but i'm sure they see when a card is a pristine quality and since they don't use a pristine grading system they gave it a 10 based on the Surface, Corners and Edges? Sure the Centering was way off but maybe since the other categories were better than their usual Gem 10 then they went ahead and gave it a 10? I'm sure you know what i'm talking about. >>

Actually I think I never know what you're talking about. Ever. I think you just like to post and then read it back to yourself.

bobsbbcards · October 18, 2007 12:34PM

The card just before the Killebrew in the submission came back an 8 OC (1966 Topps NL ERA Leaders card). I wouldn't be surprised if someone at PSA just got the grades on the two cards switched. There is NO way the Killebrew is a 10. Not even a 9, and every other day it would come back an 8 OC. I agree with the person who said they wouldn't even have submitted it.

Could someone from PSA chime in?

bri2327 · October 18, 2007 12:37PM

Between their pi$$ poor customer service and grossly inconsistent grading such as this it makes me wonder why I continue to spend my hard earned money on this company.

Maybe if they paid their graders slightly more than your average fast food joint employee we might have some faith in the future of 3rd party grading.

Great job PSA, keep up the good work

Carew29 · October 18, 2007 12:38PM

I sent Joe a copy of this for chits and giggles..........

mmsportscards · October 18, 2007 12:39PM

Bobs,

I'd have to agree with you on this. Probably put the wrong grade on the wrong line when putting in the grades. Ive had quite a few. Also have seen wrong grade on the flip when punching in the serial #'s.

Gator

dude · October 18, 2007 12:42PM

I'm measuring 65/35 with my digital calipers on my monitor. Not a 10 in my book, but could slide by as 9. Bobsbbcards' explanation makes sense.

bri2327 · October 18, 2007 12:48PM

<< 

Could someone from PSA chime in? >>

No, someone from PSA will ONLY chime in when it is to announce that too many multiple posts are being made in the buy, sell & trade forum. They have their priorities straight and I suggest we all reflect on what is truly important as well.

itzagoner · October 18, 2007 12:49PM

shame on the seller and whoever decides to fork out the 4K (hopefully nobody)......were this for real, bite my tongue, i'm prepared to send in an 800 count box of similar cards for you Frank

jamesryanbell · October 18, 2007 2:44PM

No way that's above a 7 in my book. Maybe an 8 OC at best.

stevek · October 18, 2007 3:52PM

Good grief!

TJMAC · October 18, 2007 8:50PM

To be honest, I think some people on these boards go overboard questioning what is an 8 , 9 or 10. However, this one is an absolute no brainer and an embarrassment to PSA.

theczar · October 18, 2007 9:01PM

To be honest, I think some people on these boards go overboard questioning what is an 8 , 9 or 10. However, this one is an absolute no brainer and an embarrassment to PSA.

i agree with that statement 100% beginning to end.

the 1966 set is a good sized one at 598 cards. not suprisingly the registry is very competitive. killebrew obviously is no common. several mistakes like that and the whole concept of the registry is skewed by someone with deep pockets and no scruples about quality.

i myself am not as picky as others when it comes to cards. some may accuse me of buying the holder vs. the card, but this is a joke and i hope mr. orlando does read this and corrects this err.

Stingray · October 18, 2007 9:09PM

<< someone mentioned wiwag. wasn't wiwag with the older flips? >>

La, La, La, La, La, La,

vintagetoppsguy · October 18, 2007 9:48PM

Assuming that the card is real (and I believe it is), what is wrong with the seller trying to sell it? How is this his fault as stated by more than one person? He's not giving you his opinion of the card. He is giving you the "experts" opinion of the card. After all, it was graded by "Professional" Sports Authenticators, so if a "professional" said it is a 10, it must be a 10, right?

I believe it was an honest mistake by PSA - mistakes are going to happen. Yes, it looks like an 8 to me. However, the seller paid them to peform a service and they did it - and he gets bashed for trying to sell it. He is a dealer. That's what he does - buys cards, sends them in to be graded and re-sells them. He's not the one who made the mistake here.

It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it?

Stingray · October 18, 2007 10:10PM

<< It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it? >>

He should contact PSA knowing that it is not a 10 and try to find out what this card is doing a 10 holder and what should be done about it. At least that is what I would do.

craig19 · October 18, 2007 10:17PM

He also listed his 1966 leaders PSA8OC on his site, so there was no mix up of certs....something is grossly wrong...

vintagetoppsguy · October 18, 2007 10:22PM

While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad.

TJMAC · October 18, 2007 10:25PM

I do not fault the dealer here, but PSA needs to negotiate with him to buy the card back. I agree with those who said mistakes happen, but you also need to take responsibility and correct them when they occur.

cardbender · October 18, 2007 11:44PM

<< While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad. >>

Well, I'm a seller that has sent cards back to PSA to have them review them for bumps (downward) on over graded cards I've won on ebay. I sent back 10 cards earlier this year that I felt were very badly 'overgraded'. PSA agreed with me on six of them and agreed to compensate me for their value with some grading vouchers. They sent the cards back in lower graded holders and I sold them this way. I still have the other ugly 8's here that they didn't drop in grade.

They wanted that trash off the market and so did I.
I didn't feel right about selling cards that I felt were grossly overgraded. My rep along with PSA's is on the line every time you sell a graded card.

Obviously grading mistakes happen quite a lot just based on the volume of cards being graded at PSA, but this Killebrew is clearly not a common. I'm sure it's a flip error as this card is at best a PSA 8.
As another poster mentioned this seller should negotiate with PSA to have this card taken off the market and put in it's correct holder and I couldn't agree more.

Why pass the buck? This sellers rep is on the line, I would think they wouldn't want to be known for selling slider graded cards. Can you imagine winning that card in an auction sight unseen? Any buyer would want a refund and so should this seller.

Take the trash off the market.

cravetopps · October 19, 2007 12:03AM

<<<It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it? >>>>

I think the issue is not that he is selling it; the issue is he is selling a card he knows is, at best an 8, with a pop of over 100, and a $50 value, for a BIN of $3995. Although I seriously doubt there is anyone who is stupid enough to buy it, you never know on ebay. Somebody may get screwed out of close to $4,000. Maybe you would be ok with this, but I think most people on these boards would not feel right about it and wouldn't sell the card under these conditions.

What he should do with it is sell it with no reserve or have PSA deal with the problem. I don't see how this is not a problem for the seller and/or PSA if someone shells out this kind of money and finds out they got seriously "taken".

Honestly, I would be very surprised if this card does not have some kind of history associated with it. I can't believe this is the first time this card has "surfaced".

frankhardy · October 19, 2007 12:07AM

What I would do it list the card on Ebay, starting at $1.00 and just see what the market would do. You know good and well that it would not bring as much as a legit PSA 10 would bring. However, it would probably bring more than what the correct grade would bring just because somebody would buy the holder and not the card. As long as there is a decent picture, I see nothing wrong with letting the market dictate the selling price.

jmbkb4 · October 19, 2007 12:08AM

<< I sent Joe a copy of this for chits and giggles.......... >>

I'm sure Joe never gets tired of these whiney emails. I'll bet he gets -- what -- 30-40 per day??

just a thought.

jmbkb4 · October 19, 2007 12:13AM

If you trust PSA, take the good with the bad. If you don't trust PSA, don't buy their cards. Graders are human. I've had a string of bad subs, but I know it will even out in the end.

shagrotn77 · October 19, 2007 12:23AM

<< I'm sure Joe never gets tired of these whiney emails. I'll bet he gets -- what -- 30-40 per day?? >>

I'm sure Joe does get a lot of whiny e-mails, but this could not be considered one of them. This is quite obviously not a grader error. A second grader could see that. It's either a case of a switched holder or a Photoshop job, but the one thing that's certain is that the card shown in the holder is not a 10. Far from it. I would think (hope) that Joe would want to be alerted to auctions like this.

stown · October 19, 2007 12:33AM

<< 

<< While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad. >>

Well, I'm a seller that has sent cards back to PSA to have them review them for bumps (downward) on over graded cards I've won on ebay. I sent back 10 cards earlier this year that I felt were very badly 'overgraded'. PSA agreed with me on six of them and agreed to compensate me for their value with some grading vouchers. They sent the cards back in lower graded holders and I sold them this way. I still have the other ugly 8's here that they didn't drop in grade.

They wanted that trash off the market and so did I.
I didn't feel right about selling cards that I felt were grossly overgraded. My rep along with PSA's is on the line every time you sell a graded card.

Obviously grading mistakes happen quite a lot just based on the volume of cards being graded at PSA, but this Killebrew is clearly not a common. I'm sure it's a flip error as this card is at best a PSA 8.
As another poster mentioned this seller should negotiate with PSA to have this card taken off the market and put in it's correct holder and I couldn't agree more.

Why pass the buck? This sellers rep is on the line, I would think they wouldn't want to be known for selling slider graded cards. Can you imagine winning that card in an auction sight unseen? Any buyer would want a refund and so should this seller.

Take the trash off the market. >>

It's like someone selling a PSA 7 with a known surface wrinkle without disclosing it... Speaks volumes about their integrity.

BobaFett72 · October 19, 2007 12:53AM

if only we could be so damn lucky! does bribing the grader help? perhaps druggin them prior to submission.

vintagetoppsguy · October 19, 2007 12:58AM

<< It's like someone selling a PSA 7 with a known surface wrinkle without disclosing it... Speaks volumes about their integrity. >>

Or a better way to put it is like someone saying “As long as axtell remains, I will no longer be an active participant, period.”

If someone says they’re going to leave, they should leave, period. Shows a lot about someone’s character to make such a strong statement like that and then not do so. I would guess either that person’s life is so pathetic that they need the boards or they are just a plain liar! Speaks volumes about their integrity.

one ugly looking 10--can i get a pixel count from the congregation?

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