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one ugly looking 10--can i get a pixel count from the congregation?

i believe in the 11th commandment--never slam someone elses psa graded card or what they choose to collect.

so forgive for what i am about to say. i am huge 1966 collector but even i would not go after this one.

i am no pixel expert but this one seems to test the 60/40 rule for a 10 and with a diamond cut to boot.


the killer
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Comments

  • gumbyfangumbyfan Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭
    Do those edges on the holder look frosty, or is that a product of the scan?
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭
    The grader must have been late for lunch
  • I think that grader drank his lunch!
  • How is this possible? What does PSA have to say about this? I mean, if that was my card that came back a 10 then sure I would be happy LOL but its not so want to know how this can be?
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭
    There is just NO WAY that cant have somehow been a cracked case and replaced card! WIGWAG cards still around?
  • jeff8877jeff8877 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭
    I come up with 71/29 on the left to right centering...unbelievable grade.

    Jeff
  • left right centering makes it an 8 at best or 9OC. But the card doesn't even look mint anyway. I agree that the card has been replaced. I don't see how you could make a mistake like this.
    Mark B.

    Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards

    My PSA Registry Sets

    34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
  • JeremyDie1JeremyDie1 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭
    Not even close to a 10. I say 8 OC. At best 9 OC.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ridiculas
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    Wow.

    Uh, must be an optical illusion or something.

    Nothing to see here.. Move along, move along..

    image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭
    is this for real?


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>is this for real? >>



    I really cant see it but you never know?

    It could have been sub'd by 4sc?
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭
    lmm,
    i would tend to agree.

    what is the psa buyback process? you buy it, send it to them, if the grade is incorrect, they buy it back from you? what do they do with the card and pop report? how many of you would've even submitted that period?


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • ArnyVeeArnyVee Posts: 4,245 ✭✭
    You have to be kidding me. I wouldn't even chance at sending that in for fear of getting a 7...unbelievable.

    PSA, please look at this one and revoke the license/certification/etc of the person that graded that one. Very dissapointing.
    * '72 BASEBALL #15 100%
    * C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
    * T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
    * L. TIANT BASIC #1
    * DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
    * MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
    * PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
    * '65 DISNEYLAND #2
    * '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
    * '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1

    image

    WaltDisneyBoards
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>lmm,
    i would tend to agree.

    what is the psa buyback process? you buy it, send it to them, if the grade is incorrect, they buy it back from you? what do they do with the card and pop report? how many of you would've even submitted that period? >>



    I sent a damged card back to them once. They slapped the correct grade on it and sent it back to me with 30.00 worth of vouchers. Im sure they would have sent a check but I wanted the vouchers.

    The card was a 10 of some obscure rb that played for Dallas. Emmitt something if I remember correctly? Its now an 8
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Card looks perfect in every way.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭
    maybe graded by someone who knew they were getting fired the next day. LOL
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awful. This had to be a mix-up with another card, right??

    Edit: I dare say even PRO would have graded this card a 9!


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭
    someone mentioned wiwag. wasn't wiwag with the older flips?


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06


  • << <i>Awful. This had to be a mix-up with another card, right??

    Edit: I dare say even PRO would have graded this card a 9! >>



    HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!image The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10?


  • << <i>HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!image The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>



    That makes no sense.
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!image The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>



    That makes no sense. >>



    I agree.

    I'm sure psa graders are all taught the bgs grading requirements.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>HAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a good one!image The only way I would think this would come back a PSA 10 is if maybe it had BGS Pristine 10 potencial on the Surface, Corners and Edges so they gave it a 10? >>



    That makes no sense. >>



    I agree.

    I'm sure psa graders are all taught the bgs grading requirements. >>



    I,m sure their not tought the bgs grading requirements but i'm sure they see when a card is a pristine quality and since they don't use a pristine grading system they gave it a 10 based on the Surface, Corners and Edges? Sure the Centering was way off but maybe since the other categories were better than their usual Gem 10 then they went ahead and gave it a 10? I'm sure you know what i'm talking about.


  • << <i>I,m sure their not tought the bgs grading requirements but i'm sure they see when a card is a pristine quality and since they don't use a pristine grading system they gave it a 10 based on the Surface, Corners and Edges? Sure the Centering was way off but maybe since the other categories were better than their usual Gem 10 then they went ahead and gave it a 10? I'm sure you know what i'm talking about. >>



    Actually I think I never know what you're talking about. Ever. I think you just like to post and then read it back to yourself.
  • bobsbbcardsbobsbbcards Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭
    The card just before the Killebrew in the submission came back an 8 OC (1966 Topps NL ERA Leaders card). I wouldn't be surprised if someone at PSA just got the grades on the two cards switched. There is NO way the Killebrew is a 10. Not even a 9, and every other day it would come back an 8 OC. I agree with the person who said they wouldn't even have submitted it.

    Could someone from PSA chime in?
  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
    Between their pi$$ poor customer service and grossly inconsistent grading such as this it makes me wonder why I continue to spend my hard earned money on this company.

    Maybe if they paid their graders slightly more than your average fast food joint employee we might have some faith in the future of 3rd party grading.

    Great job PSA, keep up the good work image
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • Carew29Carew29 Posts: 4,025 ✭✭

    I sent Joe a copy of this for chits and giggles..........

  • Bobs,

    I'd have to agree with you on this. Probably put the wrong grade on the wrong line when putting in the grades. Ive had quite a few. Also have seen wrong grade on the flip when punching in the serial #'s.

    Gator

  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    I'm measuring 65/35 with my digital calipers on my monitor. Not a 10 in my book, but could slide by as 9. Bobsbbcards' explanation makes sense.
  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭


    << <i>

    Could someone from PSA chime in? >>



    No, someone from PSA will ONLY chime in when it is to announce that too many multiple posts are being made in the buy, sell & trade forum. They have their priorities straight and I suggest we all reflect on what is truly important as well.
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    shame on the seller and whoever decides to fork out the 4K (hopefully nobody)......were this for real, bite my tongue, i'm prepared to send in an 800 count box of similar cards for you Frank image
  • jamesryanbelljamesryanbell Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭
    No way that's above a 7 in my book. Maybe an 8 OC at best.
    -- Ryan Bell
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good grief!
  • TJMACTJMAC Posts: 864 ✭✭
    To be honest, I think some people on these boards go overboard questioning what is an 8 , 9 or 10. However, this one is an absolute no brainer and an embarrassment to PSA.
  • theczartheczar Posts: 1,590 ✭✭
    To be honest, I think some people on these boards go overboard questioning what is an 8 , 9 or 10. However, this one is an absolute no brainer and an embarrassment to PSA.

    i agree with that statement 100% beginning to end.

    the 1966 set is a good sized one at 598 cards. not suprisingly the registry is very competitive. killebrew obviously is no common. several mistakes like that and the whole concept of the registry is skewed by someone with deep pockets and no scruples about quality.

    i myself am not as picky as others when it comes to cards. some may accuse me of buying the holder vs. the card, but this is a joke and i hope mr. orlando does read this and corrects this err.
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭


    << <i>someone mentioned wiwag. wasn't wiwag with the older flips? >>



    image


    La, La, La, La, La, La,
  • Assuming that the card is real (and I believe it is), what is wrong with the seller trying to sell it? How is this his fault as stated by more than one person? He's not giving you his opinion of the card. He is giving you the "experts" opinion of the card. After all, it was graded by "Professional" Sports Authenticators, so if a "professional" said it is a 10, it must be a 10, right?

    I believe it was an honest mistake by PSA - mistakes are going to happen. Yes, it looks like an 8 to me. However, the seller paid them to peform a service and they did it - and he gets bashed for trying to sell it. He is a dealer. That's what he does - buys cards, sends them in to be graded and re-sells them. He's not the one who made the mistake here.

    It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it?
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it? >>



    He should contact PSA knowing that it is not a 10 and try to find out what this card is doing a 10 holder and what should be done about it. At least that is what I would do.
  • He also listed his 1966 leaders PSA8OC on his site, so there was no mix up of certs....something is grossly wrong...
  • While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad.

  • TJMACTJMAC Posts: 864 ✭✭
    I do not fault the dealer here, but PSA needs to negotiate with him to buy the card back. I agree with those who said mistakes happen, but you also need to take responsibility and correct them when they occur.
  • cardbendercardbender Posts: 1,831 ✭✭


    << <i>While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad. >>




    Well, I'm a seller that has sent cards back to PSA to have them review them for bumps (downward) on over graded cards I've won on ebay. I sent back 10 cards earlier this year that I felt were very badly 'overgraded'. PSA agreed with me on six of them and agreed to compensate me for their value with some grading vouchers. They sent the cards back in lower graded holders and I sold them this way. I still have the other ugly 8's here that they didn't drop in grade.

    They wanted that trash off the market and so did I.
    I didn't feel right about selling cards that I felt were grossly overgraded. My rep along with PSA's is on the line every time you sell a graded card.

    Obviously grading mistakes happen quite a lot just based on the volume of cards being graded at PSA, but this Killebrew is clearly not a common. I'm sure it's a flip error as this card is at best a PSA 8.
    As another poster mentioned this seller should negotiate with PSA to have this card taken off the market and put in it's correct holder and I couldn't agree more.

    Why pass the buck? This sellers rep is on the line, I would think they wouldn't want to be known for selling slider graded cards. Can you imagine winning that card in an auction sight unseen? Any buyer would want a refund and so should this seller.

    Take the trash off the market.

  • <<<It's amazing the Holier than thou attitudes. Who really wouldn't do the same thing? I would sell it if it were mine. What is he supposed to do with it? >>>>

    I think the issue is not that he is selling it; the issue is he is selling a card he knows is, at best an 8, with a pop of over 100, and a $50 value, for a BIN of $3995. Although I seriously doubt there is anyone who is stupid enough to buy it, you never know on ebay. Somebody may get screwed out of close to $4,000. Maybe you would be ok with this, but I think most people on these boards would not feel right about it and wouldn't sell the card under these conditions.

    What he should do with it is sell it with no reserve or have PSA deal with the problem. I don't see how this is not a problem for the seller and/or PSA if someone shells out this kind of money and finds out they got seriously "taken".

    Honestly, I would be very surprised if this card does not have some kind of history associated with it. I can't believe this is the first time this card has "surfaced".
    Mark B.

    Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards

    My PSA Registry Sets

    34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What I would do it list the card on Ebay, starting at $1.00 and just see what the market would do. You know good and well that it would not bring as much as a legit PSA 10 would bring. However, it would probably bring more than what the correct grade would bring just because somebody would buy the holder and not the card. As long as there is a decent picture, I see nothing wrong with letting the market dictate the selling price.

    Shane



  • << <i>I sent Joe a copy of this for chits and giggles.......... >>



    I'm sure Joe never gets tired of these whiney emails. I'll bet he gets -- what -- 30-40 per day??

    just a thought.

    image
  • If you trust PSA, take the good with the bad. If you don't trust PSA, don't buy their cards. Graders are human. I've had a string of bad subs, but I know it will even out in the end.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,622 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm sure Joe never gets tired of these whiney emails. I'll bet he gets -- what -- 30-40 per day?? >>



    I'm sure Joe does get a lot of whiny e-mails, but this could not be considered one of them. This is quite obviously not a grader error. A second grader could see that. It's either a case of a switched holder or a Photoshop job, but the one thing that's certain is that the card shown in the holder is not a 10. Far from it. I would think (hope) that Joe would want to be alerted to auctions like this.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>While dealers may not always agree with their grades, how many of them have you ever known that have sent a card back to PSA for a second look. They don't! They sell the card and move on! I'm sure that they get 7's that they thought were 8's and they get 8's that they thought were 9's - but it's too time consuming for them to argue the point. They sell the card and maybe break even or only make very little profit. Why should this case be any different? If this dealer has never sent a card back for a review, why should he do it on this one? You take the good with the bad. >>




    Well, I'm a seller that has sent cards back to PSA to have them review them for bumps (downward) on over graded cards I've won on ebay. I sent back 10 cards earlier this year that I felt were very badly 'overgraded'. PSA agreed with me on six of them and agreed to compensate me for their value with some grading vouchers. They sent the cards back in lower graded holders and I sold them this way. I still have the other ugly 8's here that they didn't drop in grade.

    They wanted that trash off the market and so did I.
    I didn't feel right about selling cards that I felt were grossly overgraded. My rep along with PSA's is on the line every time you sell a graded card.

    Obviously grading mistakes happen quite a lot just based on the volume of cards being graded at PSA, but this Killebrew is clearly not a common. I'm sure it's a flip error as this card is at best a PSA 8.
    As another poster mentioned this seller should negotiate with PSA to have this card taken off the market and put in it's correct holder and I couldn't agree more.

    Why pass the buck? This sellers rep is on the line, I would think they wouldn't want to be known for selling slider graded cards. Can you imagine winning that card in an auction sight unseen? Any buyer would want a refund and so should this seller.

    Take the trash off the market. >>



    image

    It's like someone selling a PSA 7 with a known surface wrinkle without disclosing it... Speaks volumes about their integrity.
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • if only we could be so damn lucky! does bribing the grader help? perhaps druggin them prior to submission.


  • << <i>It's like someone selling a PSA 7 with a known surface wrinkle without disclosing it... Speaks volumes about their integrity. >>




    Or a better way to put it is like someone saying “As long as axtell remains, I will no longer be an active participant, period.”

    If someone says they’re going to leave, they should leave, period. Shows a lot about someone’s character to make such a strong statement like that and then not do so. I would guess either that person’s life is so pathetic that they need the boards or they are just a plain liar! Speaks volumes about their integrity.

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