Just wanted to know, who thinks Mattingly is great? And why?

TheThrill

I am always interested in others thoughts in baseball.

This is not a debate on whether he was the greatest living legend or not. I know he's not.

This is not a debate on stats. I know his arent the greatest.

Just wondered if anyone else thinks as highly of him as I do. Great hitter, great glove, and most important to me. A class act that other respect as a man and a player.

Im a Giants fan since birth. Alway's have been, alway's will be. I have just respected him since 84.

The recent threads about him being the new skipper just had me remember when he was the man back in the day.

Anyone else?

timc67

I think Mattingly retired too soon. He could have put up big numbers. He was only 35 when he retired back in 1995. I like Mattingly because he reminds me of when I was young and buying packs and packs of 1984 Topps, Donruss and Fleer in hopes of getting his rookie card. I also saw him play at the Oakland Coliseum alot when the Yankees were in town to play the A's. Having said all that. I don't hink he's a Hall-of-famer, IMO. But he could have been if he could have just played a little longer, IMO.

onlyanumber

Mattingly's back was completely shot, forcing him to retire. He just couldn't do it physically anymore. Would have loved it if he could've won a ring, but it just wasn't meant to be. He will always go down as one of those players that was great for several years, just not enough years.

Hoopster

There was a window of about two years where if you saw Don Mattingly walking down the street you could point to him and say, "That is the best hitter on the planet."

Because of that, and the impact he made in baseball and the collecting world for a good six years, I feel he is very worthy of being told about to your children...much more so than a guy like Palmeiro(who was NEVER remotely close to being the best in the game) and who would have been a HOFer had it not been for a steroid scandal saving us from that.

It is a shame that baseball fans don't recognize the greats who 'only' lasted 12 years. It is quite dumb that Don Mattingly would only have needed to hang on and be a below average hitter for another six seasons in order to be recognized because he would then have achieved some arbitrary magic number.

fandango

see this previous thread i started onthe great mattingly

donnie

2 words

Donnie Baseball

MantleMarisFordBerra

Oh yeah he was great...but as others have said because his back gave out on him he never acquired some of the career stats H.O.F. voters like to see. His first big year was '84, when he beat out teammate Dave Winfield for the batting title. Next year he won the A.L. MVP award. '86 was perhaps his best year, in my opinion he should have won his 2nd MVP that year but instead it was given to Clemens. He is the holder of a few cool records (most grand slams in a season, tied for most consecutive games with a HR). Also over-looked when discussing Mattingly is his great defensive skills, he won 9 gold gloves.

Shame he never got his ring.

MantleMarisFordBerra

fandango, I was just looking over that thread you linked & I came across a comment I had made that I think bears repeating.


"Ah, Donnie Baseball *sigh* I'll admit to being VERY biased in Mattingly's favor, he was my fave player when I was younger. Too bad he couldn't have slugged it out a few more years...ah well. I think it is very interesting (and telling) that his cards go for more than most of the Hall Of Famers from his era. Go on, look it up. Any number of guys in the hall (Sandburg, Puckett, Eckersley, Yount, Boggs ect...) pull a random set from the late 80's early 90's (so the value of the cards are based on pure popularity rather than being a rookie card or 2nd year card) and you'll find Mattingly has 'em spanked. Just goes to show class does count for something."

stitzen

<< <i> Any number of guys in the hall (Sandburg, Puckett, Eckersley, Yount, Boggs ect...) pull a random set from the late 80's early 90's (so the value of the cards are based on pure popularity rather than being a rookie card or 2nd year card) and you'll find Mattingly has 'em spanked. Just goes to show class does count for something. >>



So Mattingly played with more 'class' than Sandburg, Puckett, Boggs, etc? Or is it perhaps he played in the biggest media market in the states so there are more people who know and collect Mattingly?

Come on, while Mattingly was indeed a classy player, it wasn't 'class' but the NY market that makes his cards more valuable.

BobaFett72

Mattingly was crippled by injuries and was unable to generate any power anymore. He had 4-5 monster seasons, several good seasons, but he is not considered a baseball "great" Except perhaps by Yankees fans. Classy guy, professional, superb peak years, but faded too fast unfortunately.

IrishMike

Sorry Bob am not a Yankee fan, but he was a great ballplayer in my estimation. So Yankee fans aren't the only idjits out there.

Estil

<< <i>Mattingly was crippled by injuries and was unable to generate any power anymore. He had 4-5 monster seasons, several good seasons, but he is not considered a baseball "great" Except perhaps by Yankees fans. Classy guy, professional, superb peak years, but faded too fast unfortunately. >>



That's exactly what was said about Sandy Koufax, yet he had no trouble going into the HOF on the first ballot. He too had 4-5 monster seasons and only several good (at best) seasons.

DeutscherGeist

Mattingly was simply the face of the Yankees for a very long time and carried the attributes of eloquence and dignity both on and off the field. He had keen batting eyes and one of the best in baseball for a noteworthy stretch. Its hard not to have reverence for all that.

One thing I keep hearing about Mattingly is his back gave out. That is not totally accurate. If you look at the last three seasons especially, it was not his back that gave him the most trouble. He found a way to overcome that. See the 1993 season where he was one of the hottest players for a good two months until his wrist started hurting him in September and slowed down his excellent seasonal run. He got a bionic piece surgically implanted into his wrist that would help subside the effects of carpal tunnel syndrome. In 1994, with a surgically repaired wrist, he hit 4 homers in spring training--never done that before. His wrist felt good. In the beginning of the season, he hit .350 and starting out much like his MVP type seasons of the mid 80s. Actually, his batting average was much higher in April than in previous ones. He had much more walks than ever before and slightly less RBIs (maybe a tradeoff to the Walks or not batting third). It was an eye infection and rib injury that slowed him down that year. He still finished with above .300 Batting average in the strike shortened season. In 1995, his wrist gave him more trouble as it flared up, no mention that his back was a culprit. He had that under control. So, even if his back was not a 100%, there were other factors besides the back that gave him trouble, especially the carpal tunnel syndrome. However, I do not deny that his 1990 and 1991 seasons were deeply impacted by his back.

ctsoxfan

For the record, I don't think Mattingly is/was ever "great".

But you already knew that, didn't you?

His last (of only two) great seasons came when he was 26, and his short window as a top player in the game was all over at age 28. After that, he didn't even have a single season worthy of the AL All-Star team. From Baseball Prospectus (Yankee fans can skip this, since it contains facts that might upset your saint-like appreciation of "donnie baseball") -

I nearly lost my lunch when the local sports guy was talking about the new HoF candidates. Callers were totally psyched about all three of Kirby Puckett, Dave Winfield, and Don Mattingly making it into the Hall.

Well, we agree on Winfield. But Mattingly? It'd certainly cement his place as the most overrated player of all time.

Total Baseball rates Mattingly with a Total Player Rating of 11.3, meaning he was worth about 11 games over an average player over the course of his career. Sure, TPR isn't perfect, but it's a reasonable first cut, and if we double Mattingly's value over an average player, we still end up at ~20 runs better than an average player over the course of his career.

HoF Worthy? Uh...no. And not particularly close.

Mattingly supporters talk about his peak as being particularly impressive. Let's take a look at his best 5 seasons:

Year Games BA OBP SLG
1984 153 .343 .386 .537
1985 159 .324 .379 .567
1986 162 .352 .399 .573
1987 141 .327 .383 .559
1989 158 .303 .356 .477

In context of era, those are pretty good numbers. Of course, Mattingly was a left handed hitter in Yankee Stadium, and the raw park adjustments don't often take that into account. Considering that Mattingly played first base, these numbers don't impress me that much. It's Tony Gwynn lite with a bit more pop.

Outside of this peak, Mattingly was positively brutal. His career numbers ended up at .307/.363/.471 in 1785 games. His peak above represents 773 games, so you know those other thousand were a bit on the Hal Morris side.

Is that a fair comparison?

Hal Morris, career 1246 G, .306/.361/.433.
Don Mattingly, career 1785 G, .307/.363/.471.
Don Mattingly, offpeak 1008 G, .289/.346/.413.

This is a player who was, on balance, not as valuable as TPR indicates. For the majority of his career, Mattingly was a hindrance to the Yankees' success, and a player that should have been replaced much earlier.

Classy guy? Absolutely. Beloved? Absolutely. Do I wish there were more players like him? Yes.

A Hall of Famer? Basically, Mattingly had 2/3 of Tony Perez's career. Tony Perez doesn't belong without a ticket.

perkdog

<< <i>Mattingly was crippled by injuries and was unable to generate any power anymore. He had 4-5 monster seasons, several good seasons, but he is not considered a baseball "great" Except perhaps by Yankees fans. Classy guy, professional, superb peak years, but faded too fast unfortunately. >>



Well said, I agree!