Is Ebay discriminating against other certification companies?
CoinKing1969
Posts: 350
Should Ebay stop other certification and grading companies from the main titles? Is it politics or is just a industry standard that coins should be graded like top major ones? Remember that grading is an "Opinion" and Certification is a "Guaranty". Some don't do both.
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Comments
Cheers, B
<< <i>The ones allowed by eBay are the ones commonly listed as acceptable in threads on these boards and ATS. >>
I draw a distinction between "acceptable" and "top tier." I for one would think SEGS and perhaps PCI would be legitimate services that shouldn't be lumped in with the third-world crap slabbers even as I wouldn't consider them in the top tier.
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<< <i>The ones allowed by eBay are the ones commonly listed as acceptable in threads on these boards and ATS. >>
I draw a distinction between "acceptable" and "top tier." I for one would think SEGS and perhaps PCI would be legitimate services that shouldn't be lumped in with the third-world crap slabbers even as I wouldn't consider them in the top tier. >>
Same thoughts! How did ICG become top tier and PCI did not? I have seen some great PCI coins and actually had some to upgrade when sent to PCGS. Of course I broke them out first.
<< <i>Same thoughts! How did ICG become top tier and PCI did not? I have seen some great PCI coins and actually had some to upgrade when sent to PCGS. Of course I broke them out first.
This is because there are, in some sense, several PCIs. The first PCI had the old green labels with ten-digit serial numbers, and these are (or have been) seen as very conservative, just about on par with PCGS or NGC. PCI went through some changes after that and became far looser.
<< <i>How did ICG become top tier and PCI did not? >>
Because ICG offers a guarantee, and PCI does not.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>There are a few good ones that are recognized by the Numismatic world as being independent and then there are many that people start in their garage to grade their own coins with vastly inflated grades. eBay has banned the latter which is very good for the coin world.
Cheers, B >>
How did the other major companies start? Yes, there are scammers and some are just trying to start a grading company.
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How did the other major companies start? Yes, there are scammers and some are just trying to start a grading company. >>
Indeed...
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<< <i>The ones allowed by eBay are the ones commonly listed as acceptable in threads on these boards and ATS. >>
I draw a distinction between "acceptable" and "top tier." I for one would think SEGS and perhaps PCI would be legitimate services that shouldn't be lumped in with the third-world crap slabbers even as I wouldn't consider them in the top tier. >>
SEGS and PCI consistently overgrade coins by at least 2 points for MS coins and one grade for circ coins. Hence they are NOT "acceptable", and it was appropriate for eBay to exclude them. PCI/SEGS also frequently holder problems coins as no problem coins.
The ebay sellers who whined are the ones who play the "white collar overgrading" games such as having an MS63 coin graded MS65 by PCI, and selling for MS64 money.
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How did the other major companies start? Yes, there are scammers and some are just trying to start a grading company. >>
Indeed...
Yeah, and the difference here is that David Hall graded coins properly. None of the current "start-ups" are even close to grading coins properly.
Will’sProoflikes
<< <i>Because ICG offers a guarantee, and PCI does not. >>
That's the reason plus the sellers that used the PCGS price guide on the junk slabbed coins. That price guide is based on PCGS standards and guarantee. If the other slabbers offered guarantees and made price guides based on their standards then they could be accepted for what they are.
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How did the other major companies start? Yes, there are scammers and some are just trying to start a grading company. >>
Indeed...
POOF!!!!
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<< <i>
How did the other major companies start? Yes, there are scammers and some are just trying to start a grading company. >>
Indeed...
POOF!!!! >>
Why? That coin is accurately graded, as were almost all coins "slabbed" by DH before PCGS started.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
does NOT mean they have to admit they made a mistake and cough up on their error
I paid $40 to find out the 3rd or 4th's guarantee is somewhat meaningless
" Is Ebay discriminating against other certification companies?"
No more than the KACKALATORS are!
<< <i>Oh my, someone's still bitter about eBay's policy change with him in mind
yup, his gravy train has left the station so we have to continue to hear him whine about it.
When I inform that my grade for their ms 65 coins are XF-AU and cleaned, they become either furious if I am the first one they ask or utterly crestfallen and dejected if I only confirm what other dealers have told them.
Aside from PCI and SEGS who both maintain some semblance of respectability even if considered quite liberal in their grading, none of the others can be considered legitimate grading companies by accepted industry standards.
They are, in my opinion fraudulent self slabbers who assign grades calculated to victimize the unknowledgable buyer.
There is little chance that the victim can ever recover more than a fraction of the cost they pay for this starkly overgraded crap.
Anyone buying this junk who supposedly knows better in hopes of hitting a home run in a crossover is hopelessy naive, greedy or both.
It makes me laugh with glee every time I hear one complain that he got hosed.
These are the people who hope to screw bidders with cleaned coins they hope to somehow slip into a legitimate holder but routinely get hoisted by their own petard.
It is they and the hopelessly ignorant who keep these frauds in business. Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
For a moment, I thought Pharmer said, "Oh my, someone's shill bidder about eBay's policy change with him in mind."
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I have seen plenty of well graded NNC ( the common's mostly, they are more giving for the keys )[/]
Funniest post of the day! Kudos!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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<< <i>I have seen plenty of well graded NNC ( the common's mostly, they are more giving for the keys )[/]
Funniest post of the day! Kudos! >>
I would like to see just one NNC slab, that will cross over to either PCGS or NGC in the same grade....( I would be willing to reimburse the owner for the grading fee)
<< <i>I have yet to see an accurately graded: SGS, ANI, NTC, NNC coin..........have you? If so, I sure would like to see a scan for us to review.... >>
The crap-slabbers "screw up" once in a Blue Moon and let an accurately graded coin slip into their holder. I once cracked an NNC MS-65 Walker that graded MS-65 at PCGS. It was toned, though, so I think the NNC graders thought the surfaces were worse than they really were, otherwise it would have graded NNC MS-67 or 68.
My best crap-slab "score" was a PCI gold Morgan with end-roll toning (again the toning probably threw off the PCI graders) which was graded MS-65 by PCI, but went MS-66 at PCGS.
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<< <i>I have seen plenty of well graded NNC ( the common's mostly, they are more giving for the keys )[/]
Funniest post of the day! Kudos! >>
NO kidding! I keep looking at the date stamp to see if it says "April 1st" where he is posting from
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Considering the rampant fraud on Ebay, it's a step in the right direction. Don't forget they are still not prohibiting sales of third-tier slabs - they're just not letting seller put numeric grades or values in the auction title.
<< <i>Yes, I think it's discrimination. >>
As are laws against fraud, misrepresentation, insider trading and a host of other transgressions, but they are also protective.
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<< <i>I have seen plenty of well graded NNC ( the common's mostly, they are more giving for the keys )[/]
Funniest post of the day! Kudos! >>
I would like to see just one NNC slab, that will cross over to either PCGS or NGC in the same grade....( I would be willing to reimburse the owner for the grading fee) >>
bought an NNC MS61 graded 1913-S Saint back when I was naive...end of 2006
I promised to take it like a man and see the error in my ways
Therefore, I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS to teach myself a lesson.
I contemplated what type of BB I would get.....counterfeit??? Altered Surface?? Gold Plated???
Here are the results.................
PCGS MS-62
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"Never tell people how to do things.
Tell them what to do, and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
General George S. Patton, Jr.
I think that sellers should be allowed to sell coins graded by lesser-tier companies, but without advertising them as certified or quoting prices for coins graded by different companies. With any of those companies, I say treat them like they're raw. I do appreciate the information eBay has posted on grading guidelines. I hope it prevents novices from blowing their money and becoming disenchanted with the hobby.
As for 'things' like SGS and the like, something needs to be done. Maybe a required disclaimer or something else. Couldn't you even say SGS 'slabs' should be illegal for defrauding? Any ideas?
-Mint Director Frank Leach
eBay should allow misrepresentation and fraud to run ramport on their auction site
it will allow competitors to take away their market share
PCGS, NGC, ANACS & ICG are "acceptable."
Won't happen. A friend tried a few NNC and learned the hard way. All were altered or otherwise damaged/ improperly cleaned etc, etc.
Friend is new to the hobby and got taken by (whatever the world they're called) homemade PCGS look alikes sold by several designed to fool newbies that just see holders that resemble PCGS'.
Sad and dirty pool, man.