And secondly, there's a heckova credibility gap here. I mean, where are all these virgins coming from, and since the birth ratio isn't 72:1 within the islamic world, maybe there is some fibbing going on about the virginity aspect of this whole thing................
Oh, and here's a coin:
You'd really rather have an MS-63 Saint than one of these?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
In the school of investments, Diversification 101 teaches us that one should have our money ....."diversified'.
I have stocks and bonds...I have real estate...I even have antique Kilim carpets that are quite valuable. I ALSO have coins. Great coins. They are art. They are also investments. >>
That is exactly the response I was hoping for. If you didn't say it I was going to. I also have lots of different investments. The majority of my holdings are in mutual funds, real estate, coins as well if you count my collection.
<< <i>If anyone here thinks that you can disqualify coins as an investment I say that you're either buying the wrong stuff or are looking for fast money. I see my coins as a passion that I'll hold for 2 decades (If I was a younger man I'd say 3 decades) and in that time they will indeed have become a good investment.
You simply must understand that all coins are not "investment grade". Modern coins are quite overpriced. Common date Morgans are so ubiquitous that they will have a tough battle moving up much. And to make money you have to have money. It's quite a challenge to turn $10K into $20K, but start with $1 million and it's easier to double that. Sorry, but that's the story of capitalism and economics. The hobby is fun and fascinating for the small endeavor. The investment aspect takes capital, as do most investments.
That said, the biggest problem is not that great coins are hard to find, not that original coins are hard to find...it's that PATIENCE is hard to find. Buy great coins, add patience and you have the recipe. You can't make up the rules to suit your timeframe. That's the key to failed investments.
BUT....BUT....you better LOVE the coins you buy. Otherwise you might as well buy a municipal bond and look at your online statement for kicks. >>
I was making a general statement that coins shouldn't be included as I believe most people would simply run out an buy any coins assuming they will make money when we know that is NOT the case. Just like mutual funds and stocks, you need to educated to pick the right ones. It helps to do research and be patient. This is why so many people pay investors or financial advisers to help them with their decisions.
I am aware of economics and the principles. I graduate with a B.A. in economics in about 7 weeks and am looking into become a financial adviser for a local independent company. So I do know all about diversification across many fields. I of course would recommend coins as an option to someone as educated as you are on them. But for the rest of people unsure of what to buy, I would not advise them to go that route. Just like I wouldn't advise them to pick their own stocks, mutual funds, or any other investments without an opinion unless they truly know what they are doing.
I pick my own mutual funds but I am an educated investor. I read morningstar everyday, look at different market reports, and watch CNBC for fun (I know its lame lol). The proof is how well my portfolio has done over the long run and how much it has consistently beat the market by.
However, I do not feel that even I know as much as I need to for investing in coins. I have been collecting for 15 years and still don't feel comfortable with doing it for my retirement. I buy my coins SOLELY for a collection not for an investment. In another 5-10 years maybe I will feel a bit different and diversify into coins as an investment. Until then, I will stay with my stocks, real estate, and mutual funds and I would recommend the same for any amateur collector out there.
Using the last 20 years as a template or historic reference is folly.
We were in a primary bear market in gold/silver from 1980 until 2001!!!!
I fully agree. But since the 1981-2001 era was the basis of the foolish article of "proving" that coins don't perform long term, I stuck with that, even though it was riddled with BS. How do you compare a 20 yr anti-tangibles cycle to a rip-roaring, best-ever 20 yrs in equity markets?.......In short, you can't and you don't...though that author did. We will likely never see another 20 yrs like that again in stocks in our lifetimes. That is why I said, why not look at the previous 40 years where the main stock market went through a complete bear and bull cycle....not just the 20 yr bull phase. It must have stunk to be retiring in 1967 and ride that out until 1987, then pass away.
And even though 1980-2001 was a period designed by the FED to "kill" gold and bolster stocks and real estate, coins still did ok. As I said, well selected coins in that period appreciated up to 15X as a rule. If you went back to 1975-1977 and chose well selected top quality better type or rare dates in gem, you probably made 25x to 30X your original investment today (ie my former 1867-s quarter than went from $1800 in 1975 to $50,000 in 1990, and probably around $80-100K today). A 40X to 50X return is not "bad." Again, well chosen, low pop, hard to find gems. A fairly simple formula. In fact that above 1867-s quarter appreciated 16X from 1975 to 1980. That's a powerful short term move....and only 3X since then if you average it all out. Coins do have their moments. While stocks did nothing for those 4 years, great coins were going up 5X to 15X (due to going pure fiat and pushing the metals markets, esp gold towards more realistic valuations).
What could be better than enjoying such coins and seeing them perform nicely...in either the short....or long term? And who says you can't consistently buy coins at 0% or even -5 to -10% markups? It's only a matter of knowing more than the seller. Sure beats 20-30% markups.
Comments
Who the hell would want 72 virgins? A few, sure...but then it's just tediuos.
Gimme some real women who been around the block.
I was thinking something similar.
And secondly, there's a heckova credibility gap here. I mean, where are all these virgins coming from, and since the birth ratio isn't 72:1 within the islamic world, maybe there is some fibbing going on about the virginity aspect of this whole thing................
Oh, and here's a coin:
You'd really rather have an MS-63 Saint than one of these?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>"INVESTING"
In the school of investments, Diversification 101 teaches us that one should have our money ....."diversified'.
I have stocks and bonds...I have real estate...I even have antique Kilim carpets that are quite valuable. I ALSO have coins. Great coins. They are art. They are also investments. >>
That is exactly the response I was hoping for. If you didn't say it I was going to. I also have lots of different investments. The majority of my holdings are in mutual funds, real estate, coins as well if you count my collection.
<< <i>If anyone here thinks that you can disqualify coins as an investment I say that you're either buying the wrong stuff or are looking for fast money. I see my coins as a passion that I'll hold for 2 decades (If I was a younger man I'd say 3 decades) and in that time they will indeed have become a good investment.
You simply must understand that all coins are not "investment grade". Modern coins are quite overpriced. Common date Morgans are so ubiquitous that they will have a tough battle moving up much. And to make money you have to have money. It's quite a challenge to turn $10K into $20K, but start with $1 million and it's easier to double that. Sorry, but that's the story of capitalism and economics. The hobby is fun and fascinating for the small endeavor. The investment aspect takes capital, as do most investments.
That said, the biggest problem is not that great coins are hard to find, not that original coins are hard to find...it's that PATIENCE is hard to find. Buy great coins, add patience and you have the recipe. You can't make up the rules to suit your timeframe. That's the key to failed investments.
BUT....BUT....you better LOVE the coins you buy. Otherwise you might as well buy a municipal bond and look at your online statement for kicks.
I was making a general statement that coins shouldn't be included as I believe most people would simply run out an buy any coins assuming they will make money when we know that is NOT the case. Just like mutual funds and stocks, you need to educated to pick the right ones. It helps to do research and be patient. This is why so many people pay investors or financial advisers to help them with their decisions.
I am aware of economics and the principles. I graduate with a B.A. in economics in about 7 weeks and am looking into become a financial adviser for a local independent company. So I do know all about diversification across many fields. I of course would recommend coins as an option to someone as educated as you are on them. But for the rest of people unsure of what to buy, I would not advise them to go that route. Just like I wouldn't advise them to pick their own stocks, mutual funds, or any other investments without an opinion unless they truly know what they are doing.
I pick my own mutual funds but I am an educated investor. I read morningstar everyday, look at different market reports, and watch CNBC for fun (I know its lame lol). The proof is how well my portfolio has done over the long run and how much it has consistently beat the market by.
However, I do not feel that even I know as much as I need to for investing in coins. I have been collecting for 15 years and still don't feel comfortable with doing it for my retirement. I buy my coins SOLELY for a collection not for an investment. In another 5-10 years maybe I will feel a bit different and diversify into coins as an investment. Until then, I will stay with my stocks, real estate, and mutual funds and I would recommend the same for any amateur collector out there.
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!
Everything has it's time and place when people are ready and able.
<< <i>top picks for long term investment >>
A question like this is best pursued on a forum dealing with investment.
This is proven by the fact that this thread has degenerated into balderdash.
We were in a primary bear market in gold/silver from 1980 until 2001!!!!
I fully agree. But since the 1981-2001 era was the basis of the foolish article of "proving" that coins don't perform long term, I stuck with that, even though it was riddled with BS. How do you compare a 20 yr anti-tangibles cycle to a rip-roaring, best-ever 20 yrs in equity markets?.......In short, you can't and you don't...though that author did. We will likely never see another 20 yrs like that again in stocks in our lifetimes. That is why I said, why not look at the previous 40 years where the main stock market went through a complete bear and bull cycle....not just the 20 yr bull phase. It must have stunk to be retiring in 1967 and ride that out until 1987, then pass away.
And even though 1980-2001 was a period designed by the FED to "kill" gold and bolster stocks and real estate, coins still did ok. As I said, well selected coins in that period appreciated up to 15X as a rule. If you went back to 1975-1977 and chose well selected top quality better type or rare dates in gem, you probably made 25x to 30X your original investment today (ie my former 1867-s quarter than went from $1800 in 1975 to $50,000 in 1990, and probably around $80-100K today). A 40X to 50X return is not "bad." Again, well chosen, low pop, hard to find gems. A fairly simple formula. In fact that above 1867-s quarter appreciated 16X from 1975 to 1980.
That's a powerful short term move....and only 3X since then if you average it all out. Coins do have their moments. While stocks did nothing for those 4 years, great coins were going up 5X to 15X (due to going pure fiat and pushing the metals markets, esp gold towards more realistic valuations).
What could be better than enjoying such coins and seeing them perform nicely...in either the short....or long term? And who says you can't consistently buy coins at 0% or even -5 to -10% markups?
It's only a matter of knowing more than the seller. Sure beats 20-30% markups.
roadrunner
Now if only I could get Dollardude to agree!
roadrunner
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Gimme some real women who been around the block.
I got you babe
like a virgin
what's love got to do with it ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5