Martha PGCS FS PR70 DCAM First Spouse hold or sell?
Raufus
Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
I purchased two Martha PGCS FS PR70 DCAMs. One for $1300 one for $1500. I thought that they were a good deal at the time (and they actually were at then current prices). I actually really like the coins. I bought one to keep, one to hold onto and sell. I can't believe how they've tanked. Regarding the one I planned to sell: Sell now and cut my losses or hold - any thoughts greatly appreciated. Martha, first coin of the series, nice looking coin, .... seems like it should be doing better.
Land of the Free because of the Brave!
0
Comments
<< <i>I purchased two Martha PGCS FS PR70 DCAMs. One for $1300 one for $1500. I thought that they were a good deal at the time (and they actually were at then current prices). I actually really like the coins. I bought one to keep, one to hold onto and sell. I can't believe how they've tanked. Regarding the one I planned to sell: Sell now and cut my losses or hold - any thoughts greatly appreciated. Martha, first coin of the series, nice looking coin, .... seems like it should be doing better. >>
If you bought the coin expecting a quick flip and can only hold it for two months, you bought it for the wrong reason.
I can hold onto the coin indefinitely if need be without any problem. I did buy the second one hoping to make a few bucks to put into other coins like many on the boards. I'm just curious as to whether others on this forum who are much better informed regarding coins than myself think that these will only continue to tank in time or whether they have more upside potential/are undervalued at present.
Thanks
Is a First Spouse in MS69 noncollectable? Is it worse than one that has not been graded, because it is not perfect?
<< <i>I just don't see how just because one is graded 70 as apposed to 69 (Honestly, can anyone really tell the difference?) makes it worth 3 times its original issue price.
Is a First Spouse in MS69 noncollectable? Is it worse than one that has not been graded, because it is not perfect? >>
The fact is 90% of ulta moderns in MS/PR 69 sell for less than issue. In fact, given they sell for a premium at all shows there is collector interest in the series IMO.
<< <i>Don't think price will go back up. You might be better off trading for a different spouse in dcam70 if you like the series. >>
That is a great idea, IMO.
I do know quite a bit about markets and market psychology. For traders, one step that must be learned is how to take losses. Ego is often the worst enemy. From that point of view, I'd say sell, take your lumps, learn your lessons (write down or type up what you have learned) and try to avoid repeating those mistakes.
<< <i>given they sell for a premium at all shows there is collector interest in the series IMO. >>
Well put Buff. The trading idea is a great one. The fact that it is a gold coin also increases it chances of gaining momentum/value in the future.
I'm holding.
FLderry
ZeroHedge makes debut at White House press corps briefing
There usually is no difference between a PR70 and a PR69. A certain percentage receive a 70.
Send the 70 back to PCGS cracked out, it may come back a 69.
Same thing applies to the 69, may come back a 70.
Maybe they flip a coin, hopefully not the one their grading.
<< <i><<I just don't see how just because one is graded 70 as apposed to 69 (Honestly, can anyone really tell the difference?) makes it worth 3 times its original issue price.>>
There usually is no difference between a PR70 and a PR69. A certain percentage receive a 70.
Send the 70 back to PCGS cracked out, it may come back a 69.
Same thing applies to the 69, may come back a 70.
Maybe they flip a coin, hopefully not the one their grading.
Total rant with no factual basis. Maybe you see no difference, that does not mean there isn't one.
<< <i>
<< <i><<I just don't see how just because one is graded 70 as apposed to 69 (Honestly, can anyone really tell the difference?) makes it worth 3 times its original issue price.>>
There usually is no difference between a PR70 and a PR69. A certain percentage receive a 70.
Send the 70 back to PCGS cracked out, it may come back a 69.
Same thing applies to the 69, may come back a 70.
Maybe they flip a coin, hopefully not the one their grading.
Total rant with no factual basis. Maybe you see no difference, that does not mean there isn't one. >>
I see at least one fact in that statement. It is a fact based on my personal experiences as well as experiences of many others.. On 6 separate occasions I have cracked out both Ms 69's and PF 69's and sent them back in for grading. They came back as 70's. Perfect coins.
Why weren't they perfect before?. Because grading is subjective.
Now this is a fact:
On any given day it can go any given way.
Having said that and in response to your original question?
Sell now! in time all of the ones that have been released so far (with the exception of Jefferson) will sell for melt or slightly over. They is no way there will be 40,000 collectors of these.
Much later
<< <i>I purchased two Martha PGCS FS PR70 DCAMs. One for $1300 one for $1500. I thought that they were a good deal at the time (and they actually were at then current prices). I actually really like the coins. I bought one to keep, one to hold onto and sell. I can't believe how they've tanked. Regarding the one I planned to sell: Sell now and cut my losses or hold - any thoughts greatly appreciated. Martha, first coin of the series, nice looking coin, .... seems like it should be doing better. >>
Tanked? Don't know what you've been watching....but...
ebay FS PR70DCAM
another one
HOLD ON TO THE COIN...
I agree...the non First Strike's have tanked ..
My experience is buy the best, it will hold it's value better in a down market.
There will always be someone who wants the best and with 289 with FS and only 358 total you might want to hold.
You've already taken the hit, I don't see much down side from here. I see them selling steady for $1000 - $1200 plus they are drying up.
Wait a couple weeks to sell and you'll have the only one on the bay.
part with it.
Washington Raw Proofs
Abigail Raw Proofs
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money?
<< <i>
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money? >>
Well not much of a comparsion when the bulk of classics are lower grade UNC or circulated coins. That's what's sad about some modern collectors they can't see a difference without a 10X loop on moderns and 99% of them are 69's or 70's and will always be that way since they never circulated. As low as the mintage claims are by some modern collectors (and I'll bet I'm a bigger one than you) keep in mind mintage on classics don't have any meaning since a lot of these so called higher mintage coins are gone and may have only 10% of their totals today in all grades. That makes high grade UNC very hard to find in problem free grades, not so with moderns.
Modern crap--sell!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money? >>
Well not much of a comparsion when the bulk of classics are lower grade UNC or circulated coins. That's what's sad about some modern collectors they can't see a difference without a 10X loop on moderns and 99% of them are 69's or 70's and will always be that way since they never circulated. As low as the mintage claims are by some modern collectors (and I'll bet I'm a bigger one than you) keep in mind mintage on classics don't have any meaning since a lot of these so called higher mintage coins are gone and may have only 10% of their totals today in all grades. That makes high grade UNC very hard to find in problem free grades, not so with moderns. >>
Wether new collectors can see the difference or not means nothing when you go to sell a coin. The fact is there is a difference and collectors always have, and always will pay a premium for a higher quality coin as it has the best chance of appreciating. Also, given the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest mintage gold commemorative issues ever, I would say chances are good of them appreciating.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money? >>
Well not much of a comparsion when the bulk of classics are lower grade UNC or circulated coins. That's what's sad about some modern collectors they can't see a difference without a 10X loop on moderns and 99% of them are 69's or 70's and will always be that way since they never circulated. As low as the mintage claims are by some modern collectors (and I'll bet I'm a bigger one than you) keep in mind mintage on classics don't have any meaning since a lot of these so called higher mintage coins are gone and may have only 10% of their totals today in all grades. That makes high grade UNC very hard to find in problem free grades, not so with moderns. >>
Wether new collectors can see the difference or not means nothing when you go to sell a coin. The fact is there is a difference and collectors always have, and always will pay a premium for a higher quality coin as it has the best chance at appreciating. >>
Being in this hobby is just like the stock market was in the late 90's it was always going up,up,up. I warned my friends then and I'll warn you now I've been collecting since the mid70's and this market has a ton of new collectors that came onboard with the 50 state quarters. These people tend to collect modern mint coins when they start and then move to a classic series even if it's a Walker short set or high grade Franklin but make no mistake when the influx stop these coins will drop in value until the next go round. That's why you see many selling lifetime collections on the strong market, we've seen these before. Coins I sold or couldn't afford in the late 70's / early 80's by the 90's were well within my means. In all markets what comes around goes around. If you young no problem they'll be another chance to sell in the future. If you in your 50's maybe not so if your not giving them to your kids you may as well take the money and run and enjoy retirement. JMO
The real problem with moderns are 100% of them are high grade. People pay for high grade when they can't be had at every coin shop, that's not the case with moderns they're every where. I collect them because I like them. I know some of you guys came onborad with the 2006 coins put out by the mint but this was the exception and not the rule as seen by prices of the 2007's. The UNC W plats have a problem if we have 2 key coins right off the bat. Myself I look at a series and if there's over a couple key coins that I can't afford I won't start a set. Now the Plat proof can be had for under 200 dollars for almost all of the 1/10 size so they may take off with new collects sice they could buy 3 or 4 proofs for the price of 1 UNC key and be half way though the series. They may not be as rare but it's supply and demand.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money? >>
Well not much of a comparsion when the bulk of classics are lower grade UNC or circulated coins. That's what's sad about some modern collectors they can't see a difference without a 10X loop on moderns and 99% of them are 69's or 70's and will always be that way since they never circulated. As low as the mintage claims are by some modern collectors (and I'll bet I'm a bigger one than you) keep in mind mintage on classics don't have any meaning since a lot of these so called higher mintage coins are gone and may have only 10% of their totals today in all grades. That makes high grade UNC very hard to find in problem free grades, not so with moderns. >>
Wether new collectors can see the difference or not means nothing when you go to sell a coin. The fact is there is a difference and collectors always have, and always will pay a premium for a higher quality coin as it has the best chance at appreciating. >>
Being in this hobby is just like the stock market was in the late 90's it was always going up,up,up. I warned my friends then and I'll warn you now I've been collecting since the mid70's and this market has a ton of new collectors that came onboard with the 50 state quarters. These people tend to collect modern mint coins when they start and then move to a classic series even if it's a Walker short set or high grade Franklin but make no mistake when the influx stop these coins will drop in value until the next go round. That's why you see many selling lifetime collections on the strong market, we've seen these before. Coins I sold or couldn't afford in the late 70's / early 80's by the 90's were well within my means. In all markets what comes around goes around. If you young no problem they'll be another chance to sell in the future. If you in your 50's maybe not so if your not giving them to your kids you may as well take the money and run and enjoy retirement. JMO >>
The popularity of the First Spouse series has yet to be determined as to how popular the entire series will be. Though given the current mintage of 20,000 (which in my opinion is too low), the coins selling out in hours and then selling for premium in the aftermarket to me shows definite collector interest for the Proof options. IMO, selling a low pop PCGS Proof 70 now is premature given the Mint has stated they may may increase the Proof mintage for next year based on the sales of the remaining spouses. One thing is for sure, the Proof mintage won't go down for next year.
Also, I feel current prices for the Proofs have been artificially depressed by the onslaught of graded coins being flooded by dealers and the Mint delaying shipping of the Jefferson Liberty, while leaving 'waiting list' orders open affecting the immediate resale value of them. The supply available is just starting to diminish, especially for the first two which is why I feel the prices should definetly start going up for the Proofs near term.
Investors invest
Flippers flip
Speculators speculate
You don't have a whole lot of choices
TSTAC
Collectors collect
Investors invest
Flippers flip
Speculators speculate
You don't have a whole lot of choices
You're a very wise man
---
LOL. he said first strike.
---
from state quarters to 1000s of dollars of mint crap. you really
think that will happen?
another -> LOL.
<< <i>I agree...the non First Strike's have tanked ..
---
LOL. he said first strike.
---
from state quarters to 1000s of dollars of mint crap. you really
think that will happen?
another -> LOL. >>
Yes based on my comments, I firmly believe all the First Spouse Proof prices will appreciate from here to the end of the year
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you'd purchased them from the mint and got 70's I'd say sell and buy a PF69 for your collection but since you'd brought them in the secondary market I'd say hold and take your chances. After all you haven't lost money until you sell. JMO >>
And do you advise all the collectors of gem morgans to sell and buy one grade lower to save money? >>
Well not much of a comparsion when the bulk of classics are lower grade UNC or circulated coins. That's what's sad about some modern collectors they can't see a difference without a 10X loop on moderns and 99% of them are 69's or 70's and will always be that way since they never circulated. As low as the mintage claims are by some modern collectors (and I'll bet I'm a bigger one than you) keep in mind mintage on classics don't have any meaning since a lot of these so called higher mintage coins are gone and may have only 10% of their totals today in all grades. That makes high grade UNC very hard to find in problem free grades, not so with moderns. >>
Wether new collectors can see the difference or not means nothing when you go to sell a coin. The fact is there is a difference and collectors always have, and always will pay a premium for a higher quality coin as it has the best chance at appreciating. >>
Being in this hobby is just like the stock market was in the late 90's it was always going up,up,up. I warned my friends then and I'll warn you now I've been collecting since the mid70's and this market has a ton of new collectors that came onboard with the 50 state quarters. These people tend to collect modern mint coins when they start and then move to a classic series even if it's a Walker short set or high grade Franklin but make no mistake when the influx stop these coins will drop in value until the next go round. That's why you see many selling lifetime collections on the strong market, we've seen these before. Coins I sold or couldn't afford in the late 70's / early 80's by the 90's were well within my means. In all markets what comes around goes around. If you young no problem they'll be another chance to sell in the future. If you in your 50's maybe not so if your not giving them to your kids you may as well take the money and run and enjoy retirement. JMO
The real problem with moderns are 100% of them are high grade. People pay for high grade when they can't be had at every coin shop, that's not the case with moderns they're every where. I collect them because I like them. I know some of you guys came onborad with the 2006 coins put out by the mint but this was the exception and not the rule as seen by prices of the 2007's. The UNC W plats have a problem if we have 2 key coins right off the bat. Myself I look at a series and if there's over a couple key coins that I can't afford I won't start a set. Now the Plat proof can be had for under 200 dollars for almost all of the 1/10 size so they may take off with new collects sice they could buy 3 or 4 proofs for the price of 1 UNC key and be half way though the series. They may not be as rare but it's supply and demand. >>
You make some good points about a market down turn.
BUT, all thinks being equal 10 years from now, i.e. gold, silver and platinum prices. Even if the 'coin' market tanks, these spouses will still be worth what they are today.
Silver coins sell for 100's and 1000's time melt. Most gold coins don't. I think there is a 'higher' floor for gold coins. No matter what, these will be worth atleast $360. (all things being equal 10 years from now). That silver Morgan you just bought for $1000 has a floor of $14.
Now I don't know what will happen in the future, but buying a set of spouses from the Mint over the years is not a high risk investment. IMHO.