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Has anyone heard of a 1910-S VDB?
EagleEye
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This coin (1910-S) has what appears to be a removed VDB. It would have been removed from the die so the area around the VDB would naturaly show a bit higher field level than the surrounding area.
I included the ends of the wheat ears to show the position of the faint letters. Notice that the faint VDB (or whatever it is) is slightly left of center, what would be the B is nearly centered between the wheat ends, just as the 1909-S VDB's are. What do you think?
I included the ends of the wheat ears to show the position of the faint letters. Notice that the faint VDB (or whatever it is) is slightly left of center, what would be the B is nearly centered between the wheat ends, just as the 1909-S VDB's are. What do you think?
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WS
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Wow! The top of the V and the edge of the D are very obvious to me. Very cool find Rick
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
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I base this on conversations and seeing one with my Great-Uncle many years ago when I was just a beggining Lincoln collector, just a kid.
He was a collector of some reknown and he had one, it was indeed very faint and only the left portion of the "V" and the right side of the "B" was visible when held at an angle. The "B" actually looked more like a 3 and was the strongest point visable.
He told me he knew of a number of them that existed. Of course this was way before TPGs and authentication, heck this was before most folks had ever seen color television. It was so long ago that only this thread clicked the right spot in my poor old memory bank.
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This is a 1910-S not a P-Mint.
I tested this theory on my wife and she stared at the screen blankly and said she didn't see anything.
And there you have it.
<< <i>I don't see a vdb, but I do see a furry bunny carrying a frying pan. >>
I have no clue what that means.....but it sure made me laugh Mark....
i know i know..................................it's a new type of eye test!
<< <i>Let me go grab my rose colored loupe. >>
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I have seen over a dozen reported 1910 and 1910S cents that had remnants of VDB on the reverse and am still not convinced. I have yet to see one that shows enough partial lettering to run an overlay that works for the humps exhibited.
The one you have there looks more convincing than many I have seen, but with the image provided (understanding that a convincing image would be a rabbit trick) I am still skeptical. If I had a chance to view the coin in person, take images, and conduct an overlay with the VDB from a 1909 coin, that would bring me closer to belief.
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Two things- First, are there any other indicators on the reverse of the coin that would match a specific '09 VDB die?
Second, unless you feel the coin is worth money, would some acid etching bring the VDB out more?
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Looks like there is something there when I did a neg of the image. Looks like polish marks maybe where the VDB was?
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
The artwork was a poster that when you first looked at it, nothing was visable except what could only be called TV screen static. However, if you stood in front of the piece and stared at it without blinking your eyes, some persons would see an object (i.e. a fighter jet taking off) magically emerge from the static to stand out in bold relief.
Perhaps if one looks at the pictured coin long enough a VDB would magically appear.
<< <i>I don't see a vdb, but I do see a furry bunny carrying a frying pan. >>
Too funny!!
“VDB” is raised on the coin, incuse on the die, and could not have been polished off the working die without leaving a noticeable raised lump on the coin.
Here are the Lincoln cent reverse die numbers for San Francisco, 1909, with the quantity struck from each. When the decision was made to remove VDB from the reverse, all dies were ordered returned to Philadelphia and new dies, made from a new master die, were shipped. (These are struck cents, including defective pieces which were later subtracted from the quantity approved for circulation.)
Reverse:
#248 63,800
#249 137,880
#250 76,600
#251 127,200
#252 81,000
#295 0
#296 0
#297 0
#298 0
#299 0
A note says: “Ret.[ired] Aug.12.” New series begins with #343.
Check Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915 for details of engraver Charles Barber's plan for removal of the initials.
I don't see it.
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You cannot discern the letters, but you can discern 3 bright (polished?) spots in exactly the right position for a VDB. This is a 1910-S.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
The curvature around the 6:00 position does look a bit less steep then other places, but then again it may be an illusion. Was the die worked on after it was sent back to Philly? I don't know. I think the odds are against it.
Keep in mind, I am more curious than excited that it is something.
a fellow (and I can't recall who)
bought a whole lincoln cent set from me, that included a 22 plain.
it was so worn that you could barely detect that it was a 22...he later got in touch with me and said indeed it was a 22-D.
so I asked how he knew...and ...it turns out he's a research scientist with access to a scanning electron microscope.
once scanned he said the D stuck out like (excuse his colorization) "a turd in a punch bowl"
I wonder if this technology can be used to dis-prove or prove?
Most 1909 coins were made from a different reverse die than the post 1909 coins. Even without the VDB being visible, one can easily tell the difference.
Here is a usual 1909 coin.
Here is a post 1909 coin, a 1910 to be specific.
Notice any differences? Look closer at the "N" and "E" in UNITED, the "E" in STATES, the "F" in OF and the "E", "M" and "R" in AMERICA. Look at the inner joints of the "N" and the inner joint of the "E", they are filled in and not very sharp compared to the post 1909 reverses. In the later series, the entire "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" was re-cut in the master die to be clearer at the joints to give the letter a cleaner look.
To be clear, the "post" 1909 reverse was cut in 1909 and used on some 1909 VDB coins! So a 1910s VDB could exist with the post 1909 reverse. From my experience, most 1909 coins are from the older reverse.
Now let's look at your reverse,
It obviously is not of the usual 1909 reverse so I can not say 100% that it is a true 1910-s VDB. As some 1909 coins have the standard post 1909 reverse. If it had the older 1909 style reverse, that would be more conclusive.
Rob
It has the usual 1909 reverse die characteristics and you can tell the difference with or without the VDB.
Rob
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Even without a VDB, it's worth something since it's from the "wrong" reverse die. Maybe I should have kept this to myself so I could cherry picked them myself, it they exist. Oh well, it's better having more people with correct knowledge out there.
Rob
Interesting discussion, though.