US to confiscate gold bullion and coins . . .
jimmymac
Posts: 505 ✭
just kidding, but what would you do if this became a reality ala 1933 when the government did confiscate gold??
currently putting together a EF/AU/BU 18th & 19th Century Type Set; and CC Morgan Set
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
0
Comments
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
What makes you so sure that "collectors coins" would be treated any differently than bullion coins? The bullion coins have been sold by the government now for 21 years. Why would a government that is so corrupt as to confiscate one type of gold stop short at confiscating as much as possible from everyone possible?
Oh - that is, theoretically - if one actually did have gold in the first place.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Lets say they did. Ok all your bullion Eagle would be recalled but Saint and Libs would be collectors coins.
What makes you so sure that "collectors coins" would be treated any differently than bullion coins? The bullion coins have been sold by the government now for 21 years. Why would a government that is so corrupt as to confiscate one type of gold stop short at confiscating as much as possible from everyone possible?
Oh - that is, theoretically - if one actually did have gold in the first place. >>
Well mainly because that's the way it worked in 1933 at the time Saints were a long running series.
Before gold would be confiscated I'm sure we'd do away with money altogether and go to an all electronic system world wide. Let's see are we going to received the "Mark of the Beast" to identify people? The technology already exist with an embedded chip in ones hand and an eye retina scan (forehead). Go ahead and laugh now
NY, London, Zurich
Isn't this sort of a fantasy qeuestion?
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
In 1932 President Hoover’s administration required banks to keep lists of the names of people and businesses making gold deposits and withdrawals, and the amount of each transaction. If a business withdrew a large amount of gold, Hoover’s treasury dept was informed and some businesses were required to provide documentation that the gold was used for legitimate business purposes, not hoarding. Hoover did this to keep tabs on export speculation and hoarding of US gold coin, and as a contingency if he decided to take the US off the gold standard. (Something he considered several times.)
The lists that Hoover’s administration developed were later used in May-November 1933 to identify those who had apparently hoarded gold. By the time the lists were culled for legitimate uses, treasury was left with only a few thousand names for the entire country. The treasury also used lists of newly rented small-size safety deposit boxes as indicators of possible hoards. (Something suggested by former mint director Andrew following the 1907 Knickerbocker panic.)
Most of the gold treasury initially claimed was “in circulation” never showed up. It was either lost, converted to other uses, exported without record, locked in numismatic collections, or hidden. More than 3/4 of the US gold coin melted later that decade came from government vaults at the mints, assay offices and federal reserve banks – i.e.: coin that wasn’t in circulation anyway.
Link
Proud Participant in Operation "Stone Holey" August 7, 2008
Maybe you sold it. Maybe you bought it at a show from a dealer and there is no record.
A confiscation will be a voluntary turning over of your assets that I doubt would go nearly as easily as it did in 1933 unless there was some end of the world criis that all that gold would prevent (highly unlikely).
This just ain't gonna happen folks. Don't get you're pannies in a bind.
<< <i>How would they really know that you still have it? >>
Because in EACH Gold Buffalo / AGE / etc there's a tiny micro-chip embeded for tracking
wearing my tin foil hat...
<< <i>How would they really know that you still have it? >>
In the article I cited: in 1933 they sealed all safety deposit boxes. You couldn't get access to it without an IRS agent present. Just some food for thought.
Proud Participant in Operation "Stone Holey" August 7, 2008
Link
OneThree, the paper you linked is fairly old (1984), and it was prepared on behalf of a dealer in foreign and pre-1933 gold coins. It would be instructive if we had a summary of the laws enacted during the Reagan Administration which addressed gold ownership, the American Arts Medallions, the American Gold Eagles, and eligibility of AGEs for IRAs and other retirement plan contributions. I think that I am correct in stating that the proof and burnished American Eagles are sold by the Mint directly to collectors specifically as "collector coins." All of these factors also enter into forming the legal precedents, I think.
Do any of the attorneys on this forum have any exposure to this question, in an unofficial and non-paid capacity, of course?
I knew it would happen.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The government would have to confiscate all the guns before they attempt to steal all the gold. Ain't going to happen. >>
Yep, we'd have a lot more problems than just gold confiscation before it ever got to that. I agree, not going to happen.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>A good memo on the history and legal aspects of the past and any future gold seizure.
Link
OneThree, the paper you linked is fairly old (1984), and it was prepared on behalf of a dealer in foreign and pre-1933 gold coins. It would be instructive if we had a summary of the laws enacted during the Reagan Administration which addressed gold ownership, the American Arts Medallions, the American Gold Eagles, and eligibility of AGEs for IRAs and other retirement plan contributions. I think that I am correct in stating that the proof and burnished American Eagles are sold by the Mint directly to collectors specifically as "collector coins." All of these factors also enter into forming the legal precedents, I think.
Do any of the attorneys on this forum have any exposure to this question, in an unofficial and non-paid capacity, of course?
You make an excellent point. If I find the time I will look into it.
"Ah yes... the security of SDB's... makes me laugh. No matter what circumstances are stipulated, the conspiracy nuts will find a way around it. Cheers, RickO"
Rick I often find myself at a loss for what you really think.
Proud Participant in Operation "Stone Holey" August 7, 2008
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>The government would have to confiscate all the guns before they attempt to steal all the gold. Ain't going to happen. >>
Yep, we'd have a lot more problems than just gold confiscation before it ever got to that. I agree, not going to happen. >>
Might not happen, but they could tax the crap out of it when you sell-- an alternative to actually physically confiscating it from citizens.
hillary clinton has a realistic shot at becoming President of the United States. How much more of a problem could we possibly have? If she can turn a $1,000 investment in cattle futures into $100,000 then she would have no compunction about confiscating anything else she decides to confiscate.
I knew it would happen.
What a clever way for the government to protect us from the evil boogieman!
Textbook non sequitur, and a hell of a fantasy.
A better example would be electing a couple of oil men, one with a long record of business failures, and then having your money confiscated via monstrous Deficit Spending (another way to tax people for huge government expenditures)
Oops, that actually happened!
<< <i>> If she can turn a $1,000 investment in cattle futures into $100,000 then she would have no compunction about confiscating anything else she decides to confiscate.
Textbook non sequitur, and a hell of a fantasy.
A better example would be electing a couple of oil men, one with a long record of business failures, and then having your money confiscated via monstrous Deficit Spending (another way to tax people for huge government expenditures)
Oops, that actually happened! >>
Bingo! but the Neo-Con revisionists won't admit to any of this
Textbook non sequitur, and a hell of a fantasy.
A better example would be electing a couple of oil men, one with a long record of business failures, and then having your money confiscated via monstrous Deficit Spending (another way to tax people for huge government expenditures)
Oops, that actually happened! >>
Bingo! but the Neo-Con revisionists won't admit to any of this
Let's review, hillary's cattle futures trading is well documented, so where's the revision? (edited to add - I even remember the original accounts of her amazing profits, because I was into trading soybean and corn futures contracts at the time, and I was truly disgusted). Non sequiter and fantasy? Yeah, ok - whatever you say. I say that the pattern is established with her health care scheme and that she won't stop there.
And actually, your deficit spending observation is valid too, so where's the revision?
I have no love for any of these politicians who gladly continue to sell this country down the river. None of 'em.
I knew it would happen.
Non sequitur means drawing a conclusion from something completely unrelated. If you can figure out a way to tie cattle futures trading to confiscation of other peoples' money, you have a much better imagination than I do.
> I say that the pattern is established with her health care scheme and that she won't stop there.
Let me know if you think spending a trillion (latest estimate) on an endless quagmire* makes more sense than spending it on people's health.
I believe the very first sentence of the Constitution requires the President to worry about the welfare of Americans. I would include medical care as welfare.
* The first guy to call the Iraq War a "quagmire" was Dick Cheney. Video Of Cheney
<< <i>>
I believe the very first sentence of the Constitution requires the President to worry about the welfare of Americans. I would include medical care as welfare.
>>
The constitution encourages us to take resources at gunpoint and redistribute them in a communistic manner... Hm.
A bit off topic but an interesting spin.
Ok, hillary spends $1,000 on cattle futures, and even with leverage, by no stretch of even my fantastic imagination does one end up with $100,000 within a few months. Therefore, she got the money as a gift from her benefactor and lied about it. Are you with me so far?
The issue isn't the tie between cattle futures trading and confiscation of other people's money. The issue is the fact that she has no compunction about lying and that she is a socialist who won't hesitate to take your money, and my money in order to buy votes.
The fact that raising my taxes to buy the votes of someone who doesn't have a health plan irks me, especially since I don't have a health plan myself because it's too expensive. When I needed surgery, nobody chipped in. I don't have health insurance, and that's my choice - not hillary's. Maybe you need a government nanny, but I don't. And I don't need to pay for your nanny, either.
One coin that I don't want hillary to confiscate:
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>How would they really know that you still have it? >>
In the article I cited: in 1933 they sealed all safety deposit boxes. You couldn't get access to it without an IRS agent present. Just some food for thought.
Not every piece of gold is in a SDB. There are lots of safes in this old world with a lot of gold in it.
You have not adequately proven your thesis that she lied. In fact, your only "argument" was a Strawman ("she HAD to lie to make that money!") In fact, and it is something I am familiar with, it is easy to turn $1,000 into $100,000 in a few months in the futures market - if you bet the right way. In certain markets you only needed 5% margin at the time she was doing it.
Secondly, since it is a given that all politicians lie at one time or another, your conclusion that lying="confiscation of wealth" means every politician will confiscate wealth.
I'm very puzzled by your thought process. And if she is such a socialist, why did she invest in cattle futures? That is a very non-socialist thing to do.
> Maybe you need a government nanny, but I don't. And I don't need to pay for your nanny, either.
I don't need one. I know it is very un-PC to say so, but it is many other Americans, many of whom through no fault of their own, need it. Even the insured have their claims denied - over and over.
This thread is about to go POOF!
<< <i>Re: newbiecollector’s comment.
In 1932 President Hoover’s administration required banks to keep lists of the names of people and businesses making gold deposits and withdrawals, and the amount of each transaction. If a business withdrew a large amount of gold, Hoover’s treasury dept was informed and some businesses were required to provide documentation that the gold was used for legitimate business purposes, not hoarding. Hoover did this to keep tabs on export speculation and hoarding of US gold coin, and as a contingency if he decided to take the US off the gold standard. (Something he considered several times.)
The lists that Hoover’s administration developed were later used in May-November 1933 to identify those who had apparently hoarded gold. By the time the lists were culled for legitimate uses, treasury was left with only a few thousand names for the entire country. The treasury also used lists of newly rented small-size safety deposit boxes as indicators of possible hoards. (Something suggested by former mint director Andrew following the 1907 Knickerbocker panic.)
Most of the gold treasury initially claimed was “in circulation” never showed up. It was either lost, converted to other uses, exported without record, locked in numismatic collections, or hidden. More than 3/4 of the US gold coin melted later that decade came from government vaults at the mints, assay offices and federal reserve banks – i.e.: coin that wasn’t in circulation anyway. >>
Thanks. This is very interesting.
It should be noted that the government didn't confiscate gold. It was redeemed
in currency or at the official value of gold. It is true that they revalued gold as soon
as they had gotten all that was available. In the unlikely event this happened again
there would be two safe bets; they'd pay market value and the gold price would double
as soon as they got it all.
I knew it would happen.